downlow Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 What's up guys, I need a littlw advice here, this is my first post so I hope that I do everything right. I have a 1992 seville (going to try and post pictures) it has been sitting in my yard for a year now, the dealer told me that I need a new head gasket and possible water pump, he wants about $4000 to do the job, I have just found an engine for the car with 43,000 miles on it from a company in Wisconson (did I spell that right) I am in Detroit, they are asking $995.00 for it with shipping included. I also have a guy that will install it for another $500.00, I love this car have had it for about 6 years it is in good shape inside and out, should I take the chance or not, please let me know what you guys think your opinion is far more important to me that any dealers by far. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacseville Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 have you checked ebay? I got a Jasper reman unit for $800, and then installed it myself. I got it off ebay, but you might contact engines direct of phoenix, az. use google and search white pages. what are the symptoms that you, or they think you need a head gasket and water pump. it's a good car and if you can get a motor cheap, you'll have a nice ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 If you found someone to take the old engine out and put a new one in for $500 then just have that guy replace the head gasket. $500 is a super good deal for an engine replacement. It takes a long time to swap an engine out. It's not real hard, it's just very tedious and time consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 The engine will run hot until the point where please shut engine down will come across the info screen, it does not smoke and I even had it towed to a muffler shop to have the converter replaced because someone said that it might be the problem, after replacement I was able to drive it home (about 6 miles) with no problem, until I started it up the next day and it would sputer and stall out, and when I did get it started it would run for a while and then run hot again. Is it easier to replace the head gasket than to replace the engine, sorry guys I am someone dumb when it comes to cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 If it's just a head gasket, it's super easy to replace. Is the coolant low? Do you have to keep refilling it? Usually a headgasket won't make the car run super hot unless quite a bit of coolant is leaving to the point where it can't cool any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 "the dealer told me that I need a new head gasket and possible water pump, he wants about $4000 to do the job" $4000..? for the gaskets? sounds to me like your dealer saying the bolts stripped from the head gaskets...and they need to drop the engine and install time cearts....this would be around $2500...I think....If they did infact quote you @ $4000 (for anything to do with the gaskets) I would seriously consider taking your car to another CADILLAC dealer (no "caddillac gmc chevy".....a Cadillac dealer) ...and never take it back to the other dealer again...acklac A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I think even it is head gasket problem ( which is not obvious) it will be easier to replace since your engine is 4.9 l not northstar. correct me if I am wrong. Forget the dealer-stealer. get a second opinion, o give some more details and make some easy and inexpensive experiment with the cooling system. Your all expenses may be within a few hundred buks or so IMO. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I'd take it to a local shop somewhere. The 4.9 is easy to work on so just about any mechanic can do it and won't complain. the 1992 is actually a really nice car and I'd keep it. It's possible you have a really bad exhaust restriction, but there could be numerous things. It would be easy for a regular mechanic to diagnose it. Could be a stuck thermostat, bad water pump, and plugged exhaust at the same time.. I guess the biggest question is, was the car running good before? and what happened in between ? You said it has been sitting for a year?? Did it run just fine before that? Give us a lowdown of everything that happened since the last time it ran perfectly fine and that's a real good indication of where to start looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 First of all guys thanks for all the help, hers's the lowdown as I remember it my car was running just fine about a week or so before the problem I did notice a rattleing sound coming from where I thought to be under the car, it sounded like it was comming from the converter I thought that it had come loose on top or something, but that was it it was not running hot and drove just fine. While sitting at a red light one day about 12 miles from home it just cut off on me, after 1 or 2 tries it started up and I drove it about half a mile to where I was going, when I got out of the car I noticed that the noise had gotten louder that it had been before. I took care of my business and headed home, about four miles into the trip I got a warning message that the enigne was hot and to shut it down, the car started jerking and I pulled into a home depot and shut it down I checked the readout for the temp and it read 239, I sat there for about a half hour and tried to start it up again it started with no problem and I started home again, three miles later it did the same thing again, again I shut it down let it cool off for about a half hour and came on home it did the same thing one more time before I got home, I had no coolant loss at all and even to this day (I just checked) my coolant level is up near top. Sinse it had been sitting I would start it up to move it around the yard and It would start up but it would hesitate and sputer and I would have to quickly put it in gear to get it to move around I could let it run and watch the temp gauge get up to about 195 then it would suddenly jump up to 239 and start sputtering and jerking and the shut engine down message would come up, now (guess from sitting) it will not start at all but it sounds as if it wants to start but it jus will not turn over (is that right), I just found the right up from the dealer (dalgleish cadillac oldsmobile Inc) and it says and i quote "needs converter, needs headgasket, possible water pump" I have replaced the converter had it towed to the palce and drove it back with no problem until I pulled into the driveway and the the same problem, I know this is long but I just want to give all the detail that I remember. hope this helps thanks I am trying to find my shopping list of codes about 10 If I can't find them I will have to read them out again after I have the battery charged again (today) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Ok guys I used my battery booster to read out the codes (whatever they mean) here they are EO52HISTORY, EO53HISTORY, EO71HISTORY, EO74HISTORY, IO52 HISTORY, AD52HISTORY, HO53HISTORY? on first attempt I also got the code eo31current but not after also it says "no sir codes" also I was told that it just needed a tuneup from a local shop near my house (I,ll never go there again) so they replaced the following thermastat, dist cap and spark plugs, also replaced a sensor not sure witch one it just says D13 sensor. thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I certantly wouldn't throw a different engine at the problem in hope that it will go away.... Code EO31 is a shorted MAP sensor. Replacing the MAP sensor should cure the hesitation and sputtering. I would not jump to the conclusion that the head gaskets need replacing without doing some diagnostics first. If you're not losing coolant, I wouldn't suspect a head gasket. Have you checked the coolant concentration with a tester to make sure it is the proper concentration? The new stat could be defective as could the water pump. Both are easy items to check. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I beleive that I did replace the map sensor but I will check with the dealer to see what part nyumber 25036751 D13 is I know how to test the coolant but how do I test the water pump, the dealer told me that he did hear some noise comming fron that area and that he did suspect the water pump, I have to get it to start up first, it acts as though it wants to start but just will not catch I am going to stop by the auto parts on the way home today and pick up a new stat and coolant tester. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Just called the dealer and found out that the sensor that i replaced was the MAT sensor he gave me a price of $76 for the MAP will try and get by there today and pick that up also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldgamer Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 The temperature of coolant just can't jump from 195 to 239. It should take at least some time. It looks like bad temperature sensor or wire. I got almost the same situation, just in my case it happened if engine cold (bellow 120-130F). Just look again on the display. If it temperature growing like 195...196...197...198 up to 239, the sensor and sensor wiring is fine and engine is really overheated. If it shows something like 196...197...AND SUDDENLY 239 - it really looks like bad wiring (short somewhere between yellow and black wires or in the temperature connector) or temperature connector itself. Look on this: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15178 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I beleive that I did replace the map sensor but I will check with the dealer to see what part nyumber 25036751 D13 is I know how to test the coolant but how do I test the water pump, the dealer told me that he did hear some noise comming fron that area and that he did suspect the water pump, I have to get it to start up first, it acts as though it wants to start but just will not catch I am going to stop by the auto parts on the way home today and pick up a new stat and coolant tester. Thanks Since you replaced the MAP sensor and the problem persists, I would start checking the harness and connector for shorts. Perhaps someone with a '92 shop manual can provide some diagnostic information. To test the water pump, you could disconnect the top radiator hose and have a helper start the engine and run it briefly. If coolant sprays out, you can preseme that the water pump is operating properly. You can test the stat by placing it in a pan of boiling water and verify that it opens fully. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Check the spark plug wires, plugs, coil (make sure it's sparking).. then check fuel to make sure it's not clogged test fuel pressure also. You could have a stuck injector which is causing a lot of richness which is backing up the catalytic converter and causing more problems. I suppose you could unbolt the exhaust in front of the converter and just leave it unbolted while you try and start it to rule that out. (gonna be super loud though hehe) . Check the air cleaner and passages. keep checking the codes of course. Check the compression in all the cylinders , this will USUALLY tell you if you have a bad head gasket or there is another problem in there. These are little inspections you can do and it will probably show the problem. (also the water pump test as KHE said above). MAP sensor will cause problems but also set codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 thanks guys got home late last night, but will pick up parts today and run all suggested tests today, you guys are great, will let you know what happens after work today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Success, I just changed the MAP sensor and after a year of sitting it started, at first it would hesitate and sputter but after giving it some gas for a short time it not only remained started but I even drove it back and forth in the yard for a while, it smoothed out after a while but seemed to miss a little I really don't want to go to work today because I want to work on it some more and try all the suggestions that you guys gave me, I am so happy just to have my baby start up and run, this weekend I will check all the things that you have told me to do and will post the results. Thank you all for helping me out you are the greatest. PS no current codes just history, no smoke and temp seems to be steady and not running hot but I will know more when I have a chance to explore more. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabass Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Curious to the mileage of the vehicle ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 106,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 the car is missing, first badly on startup but it smooths out after it warms up, I did see some very strange readings on the temp gague (electronic) it goes up steady to about 190 then jumps all of a sudden to 239 idles rough and then back down to 187 with no rough idle, or not as bad because it idles rough anyway, and then the temp goes down one by one for about 10 degrees, I did change the temp sensor about a year ago, I am going to install new wires and plugs today when I get off of work, just trying to eleminate item one by one to narrow down the problem, also will test coolant and stat today. I will post when I am finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 change the oil and the coolant if you haven't already. Put some gas treatment or fuel stabilizer in the tank.. i'm sure after sitting a while something is not happy. Temp sensor could be bad or stat might not be opening or fans might not be coming on but those don't go bad very often. Just drive it down the road after changing the oil for a while.. do some good WOT's and hopefully it loosens up whatever is sticking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlow Posted July 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Just got back in town today, I will pick up some coolant and oil today along with some gas treatment, all I could think about while i was away was getting back to my car. PS I had like 100 bees that had made my car their home, they were not very happy when I started working on it, lol too bad for them because this baby is going to run. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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