spazz97 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Hey guys, About two months ago I got my 97 STS with 78k miles. Not two long after that I started getting a coolent level low display. Well I figured I might as well drain and flush the cooling system because who knows how long it had been since the previous owners had changed it. To my surprise, when I drained it, i saw that the coolant was the green stuff and not the orange dex-cool that the car was supposed to running on. So I went ahead and flushed and drained the car out about five more times and even on the last time the stuff still kept coming out green. Finnaly I said heck it and poured the 50% mix untill the surge tank got full. About a month goes by and I attempt to go up to Seattle and not even 10 minutes into the drive my temp needle started going up after i had to thromp on the gas to get ahead of a few cars going uphill to get into my exit lane. Then I got a "turn of ac for engine protection"...and so I did that and kicked up the heaters full blast. Well I kept driving and the needle didnt seem to want to go back down and hit the red or orange part of the temp and of course the engine went into limp mode untill I could reach the nearest town. As soon as i got it back into town I took it to the Cadillac service shop and told me that they were getting two different temp readings on the radiator it self. They werent really sure what to tell me other than I could start out by replaceing my radiator along with the thermostat and some hoses and they didnt recommend me rotting my radiator because the radiator in my car has the "plastic" tanks and that I could risk cracking them. Any advise??? I'm desperate. Isaac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Looks like you are sure the overheating is a rsult of your cooling system's flushing... Might be. BTW you forgot to add supplement "Bar's leak gold" to th emix which is a MUST for Northstar engie. Did you check your thermostat after flushing/refilling? If not, start the car let it idle for a while until it gets some 190-200 degrees at that point the thermostat should open and you'll notise the upper radiator hise getting really hot. If it does not happen after say 10 minutes your thermostat does not open, which is enough to overheat the engine paricularly while moving up a hill. I am sure you'll get many replys, but check the thermosta first to give us more details. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 BTW you did not mention your coolinf fans? Did they (two of them) go on when the car got hot? You can check it while idling of course. Do not turn the heat or AC on. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 It's me again did you remove the thermostat before flushing the cooling system? You should have done that. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Hey guys, About two months ago I got my 97 STS with 78k miles. Not two long after that I started getting a coolent level low display. Well I figured I might as well drain and flush the cooling system because who knows how long it had been since the previous owners had changed it. To my surprise, when I drained it, i saw that the coolant was the green stuff and not the orange dex-cool that the car was supposed to running on. So I went ahead and flushed and drained the car out about five more times and even on the last time the stuff still kept coming out green. Finnaly I said heck it and poured the 50% mix untill the surge tank got full. About a month goes by and I attempt to go up to Seattle and not even 10 minutes into the drive my temp needle started going up after i had to thromp on the gas to get ahead of a few cars going uphill to get into my exit lane. Then I got a "turn of ac for engine protection"...and so I did that and kicked up the heaters full blast. Well I kept driving and the needle didnt seem to want to go back down and hit the red or orange part of the temp and of course the engine went into limp mode untill I could reach the nearest town. As soon as i got it back into town I took it to the Cadillac service shop and told me that they were getting two different temp readings on the radiator it self. They werent really sure what to tell me other than I could start out by replaceing my radiator along with the thermostat and some hoses and they didnt recommend me rotting my radiator because the radiator in my car has the "plastic" tanks and that I could risk cracking them. Any advise??? I'm desperate. Isaac Before I'd let the service shop throw a bunch of parts at your car, and hope they get lucky, I'd go back to basics...It might be as simple as the water pump not creating enough flow. This can happen to a N* motor very easily by the water pump drive belt slipping. The water pump is driven off the end of the camshaft in the upper right corner of the front of the engine. It has it's own small drive belt with a tensioner that can hang up and cause the belt to slip, especially under throttle, which is a symptom you seem to be describing. Take a look there, and make sure the belt is in good shape, and the tensioner is free to apply the required pressure. It may be as simple as that, especially on an older motor with a few miles on it. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 It is unfortunate the someone put green coolant in the system....now you need to drain/refill the coolant every 2 years vs. every 5 years. Did you purge the air from the waterpump by revving the engine to 5000 RPM about 5 or 6 times after filling it up with coolant? You can also start the engine and disconnect the line at the surge tank until coolant flows out from the hose and then reconnect. Did you use a cooling system tester to verify that the coolant concentration was 50/50? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiden_kai Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 About two months ago I got my 97 STS with 78k miles. Not two long after that I started getting a coolent level low display. the 50% mix untill the surge tank got full. About a month goes by and I attempt to go up to Seattle and not even 10 minutes into the drive my temp needle started going up after i had to thromp on the gas to get ahead of a few cars going uphill to get into my exit lane. Then I got a "turn of ac for engine protection"...and so I did that and kicked up the heaters full blast. Well I kept driving and the needle didnt seem to want to go back down and hit the red or orange part of the temp and of course the engine went into limp mode untill I could reach the nearest town. Initially, you lose coolant....then once you have flushed and refilled the coolant, you end up overheating in "under load" conditions. If you verify that the you have no air bubbles in the cooling system...and your water pump is turning properly, I'd say that you have the classic symptoms of head bolts that have pulled their threads out of the block and have lost their clamping ability. Have seen a number of these in our shop...the overheating under load (acceleration) is usually a dead giveaway. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg P. Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 What did you use to "flush" your cooling system? If you used water, the topped up with a 50/50 mix, your final mixture will be less than 50/50. How is the coollant level now? Have you looked for bubbling up in the surge tank with the car running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazz97 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hey guy's, Well, I actually pulled the thermostat about a week ago and it kind of seemed like it wasnt opening properly. So I kind of adjusted it and and got it opening like it should...but I dont know...I'm still kinda keeping an eye out on that or better yet, I think I'm gonna end up changing that once I either get my radiator rotted or replace it with a new one. As far as my two electrick fans go, they were both running the times I popped the hood when the car overheated. I'm not to worried about my water pump because I got one of my buddies who works for McCurley's which is the local GM dealership in my area, to pull my cars maitenence history and saw that the water pump was apparently replaced. Another thing, after I let my car idle for like ten minutes, the water hose that runs directly infront of the engine, you know the big fat one, gets really hot and is tighter than a drumms head. I cant tell whether its water or just trapped air. And right know my level is okay I guess you could say, but I did need to add water once or twice and I know for a fact I dont have 50/50 mix. What was that suff the North* needs again??? Isaac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazz97 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hey whats that "Bar's leak Gold" stuff. Where can you get it, how much is it and how do you use it??? What is it do??? So even if I do replace my radiator, thermostat, upper and lower radiator hoses...and maybey even my H2O pump, will i still need to flush and change my anti freeze every two years because it had that green stuff it it??? Isaac I'm sorry guys, I'm like question king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 if your upper radiator hose is real hot and tight yout thermostat is open. and looks like your fans are ok as well. sounds bad any coolant in the oil or getting out of exhaust pipe? are you sure you do not lose any coolant? shiden_kai might be right. let's see what bbobinski will tell us. you might try to ask him dirrectly. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hey whats that "Bar's leak Gold" stuff. Where can you get it, how much is it and how do you use it??? What is it do??? So even if I do replace my radiator, thermostat, upper and lower radiator hoses...and maybey even my H2O pump, will i still need to flush and change my anti freeze every two years because it had that green stuff it it??? it's a supplement which closes small gaps, cracks etc. in the cooling system. IT IS A MUST FOR NORTHSTAR if you do not want to get a major problem soon. YOu can get them in Walmart for couple of buks. I think yu need two-three of them placed in the lower radiator hose before refilling. Do not rush to replace radiator, hoses, pumps etc. First FIND THE PROBLEM ! The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazz97 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 I'd say that you have the classic symptoms of head bolts that have pulled their threads out of the block and have lost their clamping ability. Have seen a number of these in our shop...the overheating under load (acceleration) is usually a dead giveaway... Lets say the worst case scenario is that I Do have whats mentioned above...how much am I looking at to get that tooken car of and and what are the basic proceedures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazz97 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Ohh and how do I tell if there is anti freeze going out through my exhaust and what not??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Ohh and how do I tell if there is anti freeze going out through my exhaust and what not??? I believ you would see some white smoke and drops of green coolant coming out of the pipe. And smell of the coolant. Normally only water can come out of the pipe while idling. I cannot answer your firs question, but it may be a lot more than a grand i think. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 I think you should diagnose this problem by buying a cooling system pressurizer and pressurizing your cooling system up to 16 pounds and see if it holds. Given Ian's extensive experience with this engine I would want to know how serious the problem is and to confirm it. If you have the head bolt problem, I don't know if adding Bar's leak will solve the problem 'long term', maybe Ian can answer that. Your 'fixing' of the thermostat concerns me, I would replace it before I went forward maybe its not opening all the way. Also, get a coolant tester (SEARS) and make sure you have a 50/50 balance you will boil too low otherwise not to mention the reduced corrosion protection. This job has run about $2200 if I am not mistaken. However if you do decide to have it repaired make sure that they time-sert the entire engine (all the head bolts) and use NEW bolts. Do a search under time-sert for more information. This is not really a DIY job as it was in the old days although some here have done the job (quite impressive given the scope of the job). Keep us up to date, Good Luck, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazz97 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 "I think you should diagnose this problem by buying a cooling system pressurizer and pressurizing your cooling system up to 16 pounds and see if it holds. Given Ian's extensive experience with this engine I would want to know how serious the problem is and to confirm it. If you have the head bolt problem, I don't know if adding Bar's leak will solve the problem 'long term', maybe Ian can answer that. Your 'fixing' of the thermostat concerns me, I would replace it before I went forward maybe its not opening all the way. Also, get a coolant tester (SEARS) and make sure you have a 50/50 balance you will boil too low otherwise not to mention the reduced corrosion protection. This job has run about $2200 if I am not mistaken. However if you do decide to have it repaired make sure that they time-sert the entire engine (all the head bolts) and use NEW bolts. Do a search under time-sert for more information. This is not really a DIY job as it was in the old days although some here have done the job (quite impressive given the scope of the job). Keep us up to date, Good Luck, Mike" Well, I had the local GM/Cadillac dealership run the "pressure" test Mike mentioned earlier and it tested out O.K. They still dond know what to tell me other than just replacing the radiator. I even went and replaced the thermostat with a brand new one from NAPA. I took the car out for a spin and the needle still stayed in the middle...a little over anyways... but when I got up on the freeway and thromped on it and got it up to 90-95 mph it started to heat up on me again and this time...this time when I got home and parked it, it was steaming out of the little hose that runs down the surge tank....its never ever steamed on me the last few times its heated up untill now. Well my next move is to check out the the water pump, the water pumb belt and rip out the radiator. Isaac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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