yower Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Hello to all ..I am a noob, however, I have been religously reading this forum exclusivley since 2001. Thats when I bought my baby. 1998 Seville SLS. I have driven it all over this country and love it. I thank you ahead of time for reading and possible suggestions. I will start by saying, I am no mechanic, and I rountinely get robbed by having to pay for the repairs. BACKGROUND: My Seville SLS has 156,000 miles on it. I had the head gasket replaced less than 20,000 miles ago. After it was replaced, not even 6 months after, I noticed some smoke every now and again on acceleration. Took it back to Crest Cadillac in Plano, Texas and they said I need another head gasket (another $4800), I said BS that they won't fix their own crappy work. They didn't budge after speaking to mgr, owner, etc. I parked it for months. After reading something on here, (forget what it was) I checked oil pan, smelled exhaust, checked coolant, etc etc. and no problems. So I just started driving it again after months of sitting. ANYWAY, that was a year and half ago and I have never had any issues I would consider head problems. Having lived through one of them, I should be able to spot it. CURRENT ISSUE: Now I have moved to Los Angeles, drove the caddy, and all of a sudden I have some smoke on startup and when I accel from a light etc. It doesn't smoke while riding on highway etc. And it doesn't smoke on all accels from stop, most, but not all. I do notice a slight "knock and ping" if I mash pedal on takeoff when it smokes, the kind of "knock and ping" from bad gas sort of sound. That is very intermittent and do not hear it while driving, idling, etc. Just had the water pump belt replaced and asked my honest neighborhood mechanic about the smoking. He implied that it may be the piston rings. For a couple of grand he would fix them, resurface head, change time chain, new gasket of course, etc. etc. He is no caddy shop, but has no issue working on NS, or at least didn't mention to me. Guess I would like to know if there are any opinons on the cause of the smoking and if anyone has had similar problems and what they did. Also is it a big deal having a general mechanic shop do this type of repair, any concerns there. Thanks for your time and see ya on the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 The knock and ping is not normal; if you routinely use 87 octane, bite the bullet for a few tanks of 91 or 94 octane fuel and see if you notice any difference. Blue smoke usually indicates oil in the combustion chamber. A "little bit" of oil in the combustion chamber is to be expected, but we need to know how much oil you have to add between oil changes. Consuming or leaking one guart of oil per thousand miles is not considered excessive oil consumption. Piston rings can be (and usually are) the source of excessive oil consumption via the combustion chamber. Not ring failure as much as rings-ring lands-pistons being loaded up with carbon preventing the rings from operating as designed. It is possible to remove most or all of the piston and ring carbon buildup with generous doses of Wide Open Throttle (WOT) therapy. Do a search here for WOT; the procedure is free, easy, and fun. I'll pass on stating my opinion of Crest Cadillac's service department because I have not been there in ten years. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yower Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 JimD, Thanks for looking and responding. I use only high octane fuel, which makes the occasional "knock and ping" on accel a bit strange. But it is always followed by light smoke. I have read about the WOT and have used it only once. In LA its hard to find highway open enough to get that fast. I will do it more. As far as oil consumption, I will have to report on that as I really have been bad keeping track of the qty. I usually just add 2 qts, between oil chg. But to be sure I will measure the qty.....nothing has been more than that.. but haven't had an oil chg since this excessive smoking on start. I will get oil change and report back when I get it, BTW, thinking of going Mobil 1, any benefits. As a matter of fact, that just reminded me of perhaps something important. I have used 10/30 forever, and just this last change before my DFW to LA roadtrip, I noticed that the used 5w was used instead of 10w30. Could that make any difference and I have no idea why they did. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 ....I use only high octane fuel, which makes the occasional "knock and ping" on accel a bit strange. But it is always followed by light smoke.Carbon buildup 'could be' the explanation. However, I would expect the "knock sensor" (GM terminology) to detect that and correct the timing before you could hear any noise. I have read about the WOT and have used it only once. In LA its hard to find highway open enough to get that fast. I will do it more.That would have the most potential for benefit. Even if you had to get on the Interstate at 3:00 AM once a month. ....BTW, thinking of going Mobil 1, any benefits.As far as I'm concerned, there is no benefit to you unless you own stock in the parent company. I have used 10/30 forever, and just this last change before my DFW to LA roadtrip, I noticed that the used 5w was used instead of 10w30. Could that make any difference and I have no idea why they did.That could make a minor difference in oil consumption. And that is the reason why I do my own oil changes. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 If you do not routinely do WOT's you are almost certain to have sticky ring issues. The Northstar need regular exercise to operate correctly. That being said, you do not need to beat the car to do this, especially if you have not been doing any WOT's as a routine. If you drive this car as sedately as you seem to indicate, it will load up and not preform well. While smoke can be from a wide variety of sources, the Northstar engines build up an oily residue in the bottom of the intake. If some sloshes, and is picked up as part of the intake charge, it will definitely smoke. Regular use of WOT will normally eliminate this problem, as you will not get a heavy buildup to burn off. When entering the freeway, conditions permitting, drop the hammer and accelerate up to 70 MPH, then ease off to cruise. When exiting the freeway down shift to third, and let the engine help slow you down. Do this regularly, and the rings will usually free themselves up. Give it a little time to work the rings loose. Do the WOT whenever it is safe to do so, and use the transmission to slow you down from freeway speeds. A few days of this and you should see improvement, and no more smoking. The pinging is usually caused by buildup of carbon in the combustion chambers. You need to burn this out in a sensible manner. If to much were to break loose at once, it could cause an interference problem. Just try the above procedures and it should clear itself without any damage. Regarding the oil, use what your owners manual says to use, I think it is 10-30. I do not advise synthetics unless your car was designed to use it, as it often will cause leaks due to its ability to permeate small openings. If your car does not have the proper gaskets to prevent this, you will just make any small leak much worse. The engine was validated on regular oil through extremely strenuous trials, I would just use the regular oil, and change when the Oil Life Monitor tells you to. Good luck and keep us posted on any progress that you make. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I would also check the EGR valve and passages. By the way, any trouble codes stored? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yower Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Thanks for all the help guys...it really is helpful and will keep everyone informed as hopefully it will help other lurkers and folks adallak Havent checked any codes...will do so and report back on those. I will have the EGR checked as well. growe3 I will do the driving suggestions you have mentioned asap, and keep doing them on a regular basis. Gonna change the oil this week and going back 10/30 and will report back on usage for the other guys. I wonder if using cleaners for fuel additives will help, I did use one in order to pass the emission test for California and somehow with the light smoke coming out of the tailpipe, it passed using this additive If i use this or something else regular with the WOT, wonder if that would help things along. I will get back to you gents asap. Thanks soo much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Thanks for all the help guys...it really is helpful and will keep everyone informed as hopefully it will help other lurkers and folks adallak Havent checked any codes...will do so and report back on those. I will have the EGR checked as well. growe3 I will do the driving suggestions you have mentioned asap, and keep doing them on a regular basis. Gonna change the oil this week and going back 10/30 and will report back on usage for the other guys. I wonder if using cleaners for fuel additives will help, I did use one in order to pass the emission test for California and somehow with the light smoke coming out of the tailpipe, it passed using this additive If i use this or something else regular with the WOT, wonder if that would help things along. I will get back to you gents asap. Thanks soo much I am not a big additive fan, but...I have had excellent results with Marvel Mystery Oil. It is basically a very highly refined oil that can loosen gummy deposits, freeing up rings and hydraulic lifters. I can and do recommend that you try it. Just add a quart as part of your regular oil, and drive normally. The company recommends 25% of your oil, but it is just not necessary to use more than a quart. It is also not necessary to use constantly, but once or twice a year can help keep your engine in better running condition. It is not a "cure all", and won't fix broken parts, but it does free up sticky parts, with no damage to your engine or emission controls. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I would also check the EGR valve and passages. By the way, any trouble codes stored? Yup, an EGR stuck closed will cause a spark knock I believe. Blue (oil) smoke on start up is an indication of bad valve seals, right guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I would also check the EGR valve and passages. By the way, any trouble codes stored? Yup, an EGR stuck closed will cause a spark knock I believe. Blue (oil) smoke on start up is an indication of bad valve seals, right guys? In my experience I would expect it to come from oil seeping in from a bad gasket, crack in head, or seeping past the spark plug(s) (engines with spark wells i.e., Northstars, Hemis, etc.) after the engine has been off for a while. Valve guide leakage is going to happen under low pressure, as in the intake charge (and normally so small you won't see any smoke), and under deceleration with the accelerator pedal lifted. Oil smoke under acceleration would be a piston ring problem. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yower Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Hello guys, Going to update everyone on situation so if anyone has same problems, perhaps it will help.. Since Last Post here is all i did: Changed oil and filter and added .5 quart of Mystery Oil as suggested (would have done quart but they only had one bottle in stock) Degreased Engine to make it look nice...man it looks brand new now! Have done WOT everytime I drive, also use the shifter to downshift off highway etc. Ran codes and here they are: ABS: C1287, C1288 History AMP: U1255, U1064, U1128 all history DDM: U1301 history IPM: B1343 history SDM: U1301, B1327 all history RSS: C1738 Current I have researched these codes, but for a noob like me, it doesn't really tell me what I need to do, which ones I need to disregard and which ones I need to fix. In any event this post was about smoke and knocking on acceleration occasionally. So after WOT'ing every chance I get and using shifter to downshift and oil change and all mentioned above, the smoke as decreased a little bit. Smoke on starting of car is almost gone, rarely does it. It rarely smokes when WOT'ing or flooring it to get on highway etc. It STILL smokes and knocks lightly occasionally when I come to a red light, sit a few minutes, then lightly accel through light. Like a "spurt" or "puff" and a light knocking...it doesnt last all the way down road, only on initial accel. SO gonna WOT some more, even with LA gas prices, hehe....look forward to hearing from you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 How is your throttle body (Black & Gummy?) did you clean it recently. Did you ever check your PCV? - did you fill with 7.5 quarts including Marvel Mystery oil. make sure your PVC valve is functioning normally, otherwise your TB is going to suck in blow by from the valve cover thru the PCV. - a symptom of this can be a really oily TB Glad it's getting better. If you wet your engine excessively to clean it, that might have caused some codes to trigger - most are history (They cleared themselves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yower Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 The entire engine compartment is clean as a whistle.... I have NOT cleaned the PCV... I did fill with 7.5 replacing .5 with mystery oil...they had run out at pep boys.. I will clean the PCV this weekend and go run it and report back! Thanks Winterset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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