SIR codes won't clear

[geleeze]

here''s my problem. 1994 sedan deville concours. 82k miles.

getting "service air bag system" message in the communication panel.

retrieved the codes, they are as follows...

history codes:

R017 .............................................. Passenger Initiator Circuit Open

R024 ................................................. Initiator Circuit Voltage Low

R026 ................................................. Driver Initiator Circuit Open

I052 .................................................. ..... Keep Alive Memory Error

P052 .................................................. ........... PCM Memory Reset

p109 ................................................ Keep Alive Memory (KAM) Reset

current code:

R051 .................................................. ...... Frontal Crash Detected

the car has not been in a wreck to cause the current code. in fact, it was just fine until i was driving along and all the sudden the "service air bag system" warning came up on the communication center. i pulled the codes and to my surprise it had detected a frontal crash. haven''t even bumped anything parking, nor do i think it was bumped into.

i replaced the airbag module (silver box above the brake pedal) and tried to clear the codes but the SIR codes refuse to clear. can i force clear the codes?

i tried to disconnect the battery and let it sit for a while to see if it needed to reset anything with the new airbag module installed, so i think that may be the last 3 history codes but i''m not sure.

what do the first 3 history codes and current history code indicate? how can i reset them?

thanks for all the help.

[BodybyFisher]

I would be VERY careful with this VERY careful. I am very surprised that the air bag did not deploy. It sounds like you have a short in the discriminator circuit. I would disable the system before you deploy them and break the windshield in the process.

Logan is on board right now maybe he has seen this, ill look in my manual

[geleeze]

I would be VERY careful with this VERY careful. I am very surprised that the air bag did not deploy. It sounds like you have a short in the discriminator circuit. I would disable the system before you deploy them and break the windshield in the process.

Logan is on board right now maybe he has seen this, ill look in my manual

i'm terribly sorry, i completely messed this one up.

ok, my stock module was throwing an R071 code which means that the module is fried and has to be replaced. correct?

so i got an alternate module from a salvage vehicle and it was throwing the codes i listed. can these codes be reset? i found a service that claims to reprogram the module, would that solve this issue?

thanks, and i am humbly and terribly sorry for any confusion. i feel like such a dolt.

[BodybyFisher]

I would be VERY careful with this VERY careful. I am very surprised that the air bag did not deploy. It sounds like you have a short in the discriminator circuit. I would disable the system before you deploy them and break the windshield in the process.

Logan is on board right now maybe he has seen this, ill look in my manual

i'm terribly sorry, i completely messed this one up.

ok, my stock module was throwing an R071 code which means that the module is fried and has to be replaced. correct?

so i got an alternate module from a salvage vehicle and it was throwing the codes i listed. can these codes be reset? i found a service that claims to reprogram the module, would that solve this issue?

thanks, and i am humbly and terribly sorry for any confusion. i feel like such a dolt.

No that's ok, we all make mistakes on codes but be VERY careful around the SIR system

R071 ............................... Internal Diagnostic Energy Reserve Module Fault

This is where you get your code meanings

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd1.html#rss

I dont have my NS OBD1 manual handy, a friend has it, so I can not help you with thos code, maybe someone will go into their manual and see what they find on this.

[Logan]

I think the RO51 crash code is from the junkyard module.

Some older GM DERM modules you could reset the crash code a couple of times. You would have to find some very old GM Tech1 equipment and software to do it as GM has written the code out of the current scanners to reset DERMs or SDMs.

GM's position is after a accident the module becomes unreliable, and must be replaced. Plus that helps sell more new modules.

That being said, there are some companies (guys) 'resetting' air bag modules. Lots of these guys on eBay. Some being as cheap as $55. Hmmm. Ok. Hope they have lots of insurance.

What these guys dont see is the next accident. If in the second accident the air bags do not deploy. Guess what, GM is off the hook. It will be on the guy that 'reset' the SDM. Huge liability.

[geleeze]

I think the RO51 crash code is from the junkyard module.

Some older GM DERM modules you could reset the crash code a couple of times. You would have to find some very old GM Tech1 equipment and software to do it as GM has written the code out of the current scanners to reset DERMs or SDMs.

GM's position is after a accident the module becomes unreliable, and must be replaced. Plus that helps sell more new modules.

That being said, there are some companies (guys) 'resetting' air bag modules. Lots of these guys on eBay. Some being as cheap as $55. Hmmm. Ok. Hope they have lots of insurance.

What these guys dont see is the next accident. If in the second accident the air bags do not deploy. Guess what, GM is off the hook. It will be on the guy that 'reset' the SDM. Huge liability.

thanks for the concern. because you mentioned that i called a friend that works at a body shop and he said that cadillac doesnt call for replacement of the module and that it can indeed be reset.

also found out the r071 code means the module is fried, so i'll just get the other one reset and that should do the trick. i'll post up on the results.

thanks.

now how about the other codes???

[Logan]

1994 was early in the air bag days. The DERM's could be reset.

Here is GM's Feb 2008 bulletin on their position related to used air bag parts. You decide.

"Due to the critical nature of the design of Supplemental Inflatable Restraint Systems (SIR) (also known as air bag systems), GM does not support the use of any used, salvage, or imitation parts for repair. Only new, genuine GM warranted parts should be used in repair.

Proper operation of the air bag system requires that any repairs to the vehicle be made with new, GM warranted parts. Never use air bag parts from another vehicle or source. The reasons for this policy and practice within GM include the following:

Occupant Protection

Air bag system components are carefully developed and specifically tuned for the specific vehicle environment. Corresponding air bag system components from other models or other model years may appear similar from the outside and may even fit the vehicle, but different internal elements or calibrations may result in degraded restraint performance.

Regulatory Compliance

All new GM vehicles are designed and built to meet or exceed all applicable Canadian and U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Use of air bag system components, other than those specified, could result in degraded restraint performance and, under some circumstances, could render the system inoperative. A repair establishment that knowingly makes a regulated safety system inoperative violates the Safety Act and becomes liable accordingly. The repair establishment also risks liability for losses or damage resulting from the repair.

Reliability

Reuse of used or salvaged components brings into question the conditions under which the components were obtained and stored prior to use. Components could have been damaged or stored under unfavorable conditions that could compromise performance and reliability.

Warranty

The use of new parts is consistent with the vehicle factory warranty and extended warranty programs.

In summary, new GM parts remain General Motor’s recommendation for repairs involving air bags systems and components. Air bag systems can best be returned to appropriate levels of performance when new GM parts are used."

Current GM SDM modules cannot be reset using GM equipment. The (current) service manual is pretty specific that the air bag SDM be replaced after deployment.

Basically, with GM having a bulletin demanding 'new' GM parts are to be used, it pretty much gets them off the hook for any injuries from a 'rebuilt' system unless new GM parts are used.

That being said, if I had a 15 year old car that had a DERM that could be reset, I would.

Also, I doubt if you could even buy a new GM DERM module for a 1994.

Then again, you always have the fake air bag repair shops. See picture:

[geleeze]

1994 was early in the air bag days. The DERM's could be reset.

Here is GM's Feb 2008 bulletin on their position related to used air bag parts. You decide.

"Due to the critical nature of the design of Supplemental Inflatable Restraint Systems (SIR) (also known as air bag systems), GM does not support the use of any used, salvage, or imitation parts for repair. Only new, genuine GM warranted parts should be used in repair.

Proper operation of the air bag system requires that any repairs to the vehicle be made with new, GM warranted parts. Never use air bag parts from another vehicle or source. The reasons for this policy and practice within GM include the following:

Occupant Protection

Air bag system components are carefully developed and specifically tuned for the specific vehicle environment. Corresponding air bag system components from other models or other model years may appear similar from the outside and may even fit the vehicle, but different internal elements or calibrations may result in degraded restraint performance.

Regulatory Compliance

All new GM vehicles are designed and built to meet or exceed all applicable Canadian and U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Use of air bag system components, other than those specified, could result in degraded restraint performance and, under some circumstances, could render the system inoperative. A repair establishment that knowingly makes a regulated safety system inoperative violates the Safety Act and becomes liable accordingly. The repair establishment also risks liability for losses or damage resulting from the repair.

Reliability

Reuse of used or salvaged components brings into question the conditions under which the components were obtained and stored prior to use. Components could have been damaged or stored under unfavorable conditions that could compromise performance and reliability.

Warranty

The use of new parts is consistent with the vehicle factory warranty and extended warranty programs.

In summary, new GM parts remain General Motor’s recommendation for repairs involving air bags systems and components. Air bag systems can best be returned to appropriate levels of performance when new GM parts are used."

Current GM SDM modules cannot be reset using GM equipment. The (current) service manual is pretty specific that the air bag SDM be replaced after deployment.

Basically, with GM having a bulletin demanding 'new' GM parts are to be used, it pretty much gets them off the hook for any injuries from a 'rebuilt' system unless new GM parts are used.

That being said, if I had a 15 year old car that had a DERM that could be reset, I would.

Also, I doubt if you could even buy a new GM DERM module for a 1994.

Then again, you always have the fake air bag repair shops. See picture:

oh you can get them all right, if you want to fork over $800!

i wonder why that bulletin doesn't show up when my friend at the body shop looked it up. in the gm repair guidlines it says that either a new one can be used or the old one reset.

my guess is that since the derm is basically a relay & simplified "black box" that when it is reset and used again that it means $800 less in gm's pocket. my guess is that's also why they stopped making them with the ability to be reset. after all, gm made the special equipment to reset them.

i'm not trying to argue, just thinking out loud. and yeah, i'm with you on just resetting the thing. my car has not been wrecked, so the airbags themselves are not the issue. according to the code (R071) the module just pooped out for some reason.

thank you very much for the service bulletin, i appreciate you going to the time to post that. this forum seems like a veritable plehtora of knowledge for my caddy. i may just keep the old girl.

picked her up from an estate with 79k on the clock and in like new condition in and out for $1,000. the inside still smells and looks new.

thanks again for the help.

[Logan]

The GM bulletin is #08-09-41-003 released 02-25-2008.

[Number97]

1994 was early in the air bag days. The DERM's could be reset.

Here is GM's Feb 2008 bulletin on their position related to used air bag parts. You decide.

"Due to the critical nature of the design of Supplemental Inflatable Restraint Systems (SIR) (also known as air bag systems), GM does not support the use of any used, salvage, or imitation parts for repair. Only new, genuine GM warranted parts should be used in repair.

Proper operation of the air bag system requires that any repairs to the vehicle be made with new, GM warranted parts. Never use air bag parts from another vehicle or source. The reasons for this policy and practice within GM include the following:

Occupant Protection

Air bag system components are carefully developed and specifically tuned for the specific vehicle environment. Corresponding air bag system components from other models or other model years may appear similar from the outside and may even fit the vehicle, but different internal elements or calibrations may result in degraded restraint performance.

Regulatory Compliance

All new GM vehicles are designed and built to meet or exceed all applicable Canadian and U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Use of air bag system components, other than those specified, could result in degraded restraint performance and, under some circumstances, could render the system inoperative. A repair establishment that knowingly makes a regulated safety system inoperative violates the Safety Act and becomes liable accordingly. The repair establishment also risks liability for losses or damage resulting from the repair.

Reliability

Reuse of used or salvaged components brings into question the conditions under which the components were obtained and stored prior to use. Components could have been damaged or stored under unfavorable conditions that could compromise performance and reliability.

Warranty

The use of new parts is consistent with the vehicle factory warranty and extended warranty programs.

In summary, new GM parts remain General Motor’s recommendation for repairs involving air bags systems and components. Air bag systems can best be returned to appropriate levels of performance when new GM parts are used."

Current GM SDM modules cannot be reset using GM equipment. The (current) service manual is pretty specific that the air bag SDM be replaced after deployment.

Basically, with GM having a bulletin demanding 'new' GM parts are to be used, it pretty much gets them off the hook for any injuries from a 'rebuilt' system unless new GM parts are used.

That being said, if I had a 15 year old car that had a DERM that could be reset, I would.

Also, I doubt if you could even buy a new GM DERM module for a 1994.

Then again, you always have the fake air bag repair shops. See picture:

oh you can get them all right, if you want to fork over $800!

i wonder why that bulletin doesn't show up when my friend at the body shop looked it up. in the gm repair guidlines it says that either a new one can be used or the old one reset.

my guess is that since the derm is basically a relay & simplified "black box" that when it is reset and used again that it means $800 less in gm's pocket. my guess is that's also why they stopped making them with the ability to be reset. after all, gm made the special equipment to reset them.

i'm not trying to argue, just thinking out loud. and yeah, i'm with you on just resetting the thing. my car has not been wrecked, so the airbags themselves are not the issue. according to the code (R071) the module just pooped out for some reason.

thank you very much for the service bulletin, i appreciate you going to the time to post that. this forum seems like a veritable plehtora of knowledge for my caddy. i may just keep the old girl.

picked her up from an estate with 79k on the clock and in like new condition in and out for $1,000. the inside still smells and looks new.

thanks again for the help.

I am in a very similar dillema with my 1997 Deville, but there are complications. I started getting intermittant Service Air Bag messages about 2 or 3 months ago. When the Service Air Bag message appears on the Information Center, it will not allow me to view or reset any other information. I cannot toggle through the displayed messages to see the Alt volt, MPG, Average Speed, Tach, or most importantly, THE TEMPERATURE GAUGE. I just recently left on a trip out to the Southern Ca. Desert and the Service Air Bag Message was not displayed when I left. I stopped with my girl in the car at a Denny's to grab some breakfast and when we went to leave the message was displayed. We started climbing up the hill into the high desert community when my car started to overheat, but I couldn't tell until it was too late, because I couldn't see the Temperature gauge. I have been working on the cooling system problem and have completed some repairs; Thermostat, Water Pump, New Hoses, Clamps, Clear Water Flush, Checked Relays, and more. Even with the work I have done, I still have and overheating problem and the biggest problem is that I cannot properly diagnose the proper functioning of the system, because I can't see the temperture gauge. At this point, what I would really like to do is completely disable the SIR System and all messages sent by the same. I am getting very frustrated, even though I love my beautiful Emerald Green Caddy, it's really starting to get on my nerves!

[Oscar P]

Frontal Crash Detected

I hijack this thread since it cover the same topic.

I have an -95 DeVille 4.9L which have given me IO33 codes all time I have had it, and today I wanted to trace it down. The whole thing is simple, there are no air-bags(!) installed and the connector to control module where pulled out, and ground wire cut!

Since this lock out the information center, it don't allow to reset Oil lifetime indicator and so on, it would be nice have at least that working. Then later I decide to buy airbags again.

So I soldered 2ohm resistors as load for the ECU box, and hooked each to the cable. Pulled SIR Fuse (under hood), connected the ECU, and got two history codes for Passenger and Driver Initiator circuit open AND this R051 (Frontal Crash Detected). It wont clear that code...

Its an old car, but I have a bit hard to imagine that it has been crashed so badly that airbags is deployed. On other hand I cant tell why airbags is missing either (stolen?). Can this code be erased, or is the only to replace the ECU.

/Oscar