OynxSTS Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 My 60,000 mile '02 STS has started to throw P0420 code... It has set this code twice in the last 30 days... Both times shortly after starting < 3 minutes... and does not re-occur after clearing (which I do while driving) I found the following from Logan helping another poster... With a OBDII system....its really going to need a GM cat installed. A good $700-800 + bucks.... There is a kind of way to rewake the cat up. Same as O2 sensor cleaning. In park, hot coolant car, sit and hold the idle at 2500 rpm for 2 minutes. This is O2 sensor test from the GM Tech 1. Its a O2 sensor cleaning procedure. If its a hot cat/ cold water shock failure you will have to replace the cat. These cats often make noises like broken chunks etc... Just for info....my old "93 had a aftermarket cat installed. To get it to pass the Nashville snifer....I had to rev the engine to 2500-3000 when I was the next guy in line. This gets the exhaust good and hot and gets the cat good and hot and working. It draws some stares from the line techs but who cares....the car gets passed for the year.... One last point...cats rarely go bad....its either a misfire....or a cold water satuartion that kills them. One last thought.....the OBDII cats are under federal warranty for 8 years 80K miles! I did the 2500 RPM test as described above... passed... Car runs great... No apparent loss of power... or other codes... Suggestions? Ignore it? Bad "secondary" O2 sensor? Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 My wifes 2002 Monte Carlo needed a cat at 30,000 miles and it was replaced under warranty. The dealer stated that it was common which surprised me.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhinchley Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Agree. With the Federal emissions laws, it should be covered under the emission warranty. Even if your regular warranty is expired, I am sure the emission warranty is not. Just next time you get the code......take it to the dealer and let GM pay the $700-$800, which I am sure costs them no where near that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted May 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Update... She threw the P0420 code again to day... Yesterday while doing another Combustion Chamber Cleaning Run... She flashed engine misfire... I know that a bad misfire can fubar a converter... but can a fubar'ed converted trigger a misfire? Anyway yes to above you are right, she is under warranty for emissions and she is back to the dealer on Monday... I feel a pain developing... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted May 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 A good day was had at the dealer... Yes they are replacing the cat under warranty... Its on order right now.. should be replaced by weeks-end... And for all forum readers GM acknowledges that some '02 and '03 sevilles and devilles got some bad cats that can fail as early as 50,000 miles... And an interesting addition... The dealer has always treated me like "just another annoying customer" this time, when I picked up the Caddy I had my wife drive me to the dealer in my completely restored '87 Oldsmobile 442 T-Top... Suddenly they were swooning all over my wife and me... Want good customer service at the dealership? (and who doesn't!?) Forget about buying a brand new Caddy... Try pulling up to the dealership in a 20 year old Oldsmobile! Thanks again to the forum for your suggestions and advice. Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Glad to hear you got it diagnosed and fixed... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Theres still a few things under warrenty in this life ! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWburner Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 I'll keep an eye out. Good to know about the emission warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted May 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Update... Well I'm still waiting for the dealer to get the part... Today is day 10! For me this is a new record waiting for parts... Even parts for my Allante for which GM sourced parts from all over God's green earth never took more than 7 days.... OK sorry that was a rant... Seriously though, For anyone who gets a P0420 code... my advice... take it to the dealer the first time it triggers this code... With a "faulty" Cat these cars seem to produce less than 200HP... I'm betting that the exhaust system is substantially restricted. The car runs like the trunk is full of concrete and I have 3 sumo wrestlers with me. Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 OH I agree my wife's 3400 Chevy couldn't make it up hills, a clogged CAT saps power badly. Here was Scotty's thread on the 2002 Chevy Monte Carlo with the CAT problem http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...c=4391&hl=Chevy Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Update... Well I'm still waiting for the dealer to get the part... Today is day 10! For me this is a new record waiting for parts... Even parts for my Allante for which GM sourced parts from all over God's green earth never took more than 7 days.... OK sorry that was a rant... Maybe if you let them *drive* the 442?!? Nah, wasn't thinkin' straight for a moment there. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted May 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 OH I agree my wife's 3400 Chevy couldn't make it up hills, a clogged CAT saps power badly. Here was Scotty's thread on the 2002 Chevy Monte Carlo with the CAT problem http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...c=4391&hl=Chevy Yes, I remember that link... I also remember when I first read it... Thinking to myself... "There is absolutely no way its the Cat.. the car is only a 2002"... I dropped my car off early this morning and the service manager was just getting in and he offered to drive me back to my house... During the drive I mentioned that my car was in having the CAT replaced and how it drove like the trunk was full of lead... how it always seemed to be on the verge of overheating and that the city mileage had dropped from almost 18 MPH to barely 13 MPG... He says, "Let me guess, its a 2002"... He can tell by my goofy look that he had nailed it... He had never seen the car and I hadn't mentioned the year... He went on to say, "GM changed converter suppliers in late 2001 and installed some really crappy ones in just about everything they made in 2002 and early 2003... " Then he when on to quote BodybyFisher... "Its quite a common problem" Good thing to know... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Its nice to see things make sense! Glad you got it straightened out, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 What follows is a rant... My apologies in advance... The car goes in, The car come out, The car goes in and they shake it all about... They do the hokie pokie and they order the wrong part... I'm calling the manager to give him a shout! Is it just me or does every dealer take three tries to fix a simple ("common") problem? Do I have a black cloud over my head? Ok that's not fair... It took them four tries to fix the radio... Thanks for letting me vent, now that I've calmed down a bit I'll call the dealer... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Concluding Update.... Not counting my initial call to the Service Manager letting him know that my car had Code P0420 it took my dealer... (ready for this...) 24 days to fix my car... Now to be fair... On my last trip they were super nice to me and did give me a free courtesy car for the day... But come on GM, 24 Days to replace a Catalytic Converter... GM's own service guide says this is a 30 minute job! OK enough ranting... After all it was done at no charge. With the new CAT the car is back to "amazing" status... full throttle misfire is cured and the car feels like someone bolted in a second engine... With the old CAT the car was not able to complete full throttle 2-3 shifts and it had a major "dead" spot in the torque curve from 1500-3500 RPM.. On the way out of the dealership they asked me to give them a score of 100% satisfied if I were to get poled by GM... I'll consider it... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Did they mention any reason it took 24 days? Sometimes you can mention things that would make you 100% satisfied, like a free oil change or two, that can be good for the customer/dealer relationship. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Day 01 car goes in with Code P0420... They diagnose the problem and order a new CAT Day 10 CAT arrives Day 12 afternoon, I call the dealer... Asking about the part... They tell me that it came in 2 days ago... and ask when I would like to bring the car in ( I think... "two days ago maybe") Day 13 Car goes back in. They discover the wrong part was ordered... No work done Day 18 (on my way home from work). I visit the dealership to order parts for my 19 year old Oldsmobile Day 19 Late Afternoon. Oldsmobile Parts arrive... (ironic?)... Service Manager sees me at the part counter tells me still no CAT Day 21 5:30 PM Service Rep calls CAT came in this morning "When can I bring the car in..." I ask to speak to the manager... he has gone home for the day. Day 22 AM I Talk with Service Manager, explain problem, ask for free loner car He says this will take a couple of days to arrange... he calls right back "can fit me in tomorrow" Day 23 7:00 AM Car goes in... Give me a Free 2005 Sunfire... (OK it has four wheels and it goes... I'm not complaining) Day 23 about 4:00 PM... They call me... shop is really backed up... and they would like to clean the car before returning it to me... Can they keep it over night... "Sure" Day 23 about 5:30 its done, come an get it... I ask if I can get it first thing tomorrow... "Sure" Day 24 7:30 AM pick up car... Its dirty outside and the codes aren't cleared... I clear the codes myself and I'll wash her this weekend... They did clean the inside nice though... And they didn't charge me for the gas I used in the loner... I'm actually leaning to giving the Dealership a 100% happy score... I think this might have been a screw up with GM's parts delivery system... My wife on the other hand is not so easy going and was ready to "rip someone a second one" on day 19 when I came home with the power antenna mast for the 442... I don't know Bruce... What score would you give? Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Not getting the part overnight seems unusual, but happens. Ordering the wrong part is their mistake. The free loaner car is is part of your warranty coverage, so no extra points there. Giving it back to you dirty, especially after they asked for extra time to clean it, and had it overnight, is their fault. The car was drivable during all this? but them ordering the wrong part cost you an extra trip. But, once you dropped it off to be fixed on the 23rd, and they fixed it, it was done the 23rd. So that was a nice turn-around once they got the right part and got started. I dunno, you were left unsatisfied with the experience, so that seems less than 100% satisfied. My point was that you might communicate to them something they COULD do to make you feel better about it. When my dealer asked about my buying experience on the 2004, I pointed out that they had jerked me around on the trade-in offer (waffling), and that although we had reached agreement finally, I was left feeling that they could have handled the negotiations much better and saved me a trip to the dealership. They agreed, and asked what they could do to help make it right. So while I am a believer in using the customer satisfaction system to reflect that I was unsatified, the Dealer view is that the customer satisfaction survey is pass (100%) or fail (<=99%), and they would often rather barter than miss. I wish this caused them to not make mistakes in dealing with customers! Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.