Willie Hank Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Well, I finally went to pull my intake today, to get to my starter. After removing the starter I checked the phenolic spacers only to find them encrusted with carbon soot,.....Geez..it was worse than my backyard barbecue grill !!!! Of course, this was the first time it had been done with 165K miles on the car,...I still wonder where all that crap comes from. Once I slap a new starter on I will be interested in seeing if the increased "breathing" will be noticeable. The only bummer, I snapped a dry-rotted rubber vacuum fitting with three prongs that plug into the throttle body via some sort of electrical device, I'll probably have to replace the whole device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted April 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Did you also clean the small square notches that are machined into the metal of the cylinder head at each port?? The phenolic spacers need to be cleaned as well as the small "mouse holes" at each port and the EGR delivery passage at the end of the head where the EGR comes from the water crossover casting (at the throttle body end of the engine). No,... I didn't clean those ports, but thanks very much for the tip, I was wondering where the carbon was coming from,...I'll do it tonight after I install the rebuilt starter. Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSchlossmann Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Don't be surprised that when you go to start the engine that it will run really crappy for a minute or so. This is caused by the dislodged cardon that fell down into the valve area during the scraping. I used a vacuum, but it's real hard to reach everywhere. When you re-start the engine for the first time the small carbon particules will come between the valve and the valve seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaddyChris Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 here's something kind of amusing. My starter went dead a mile from my house and my dad came to put a new one in. He has all kinds of random stuff laying around the garage. ANyways, he took off the intake and inside that little area where the starter is was a big puddle of oil. HAHA, on a 94 sts with 237000 miles. He said , "that's wierd, its supposed to be dry" put the starter in and I havnt worried about it. Christopher Petro 94 sts 67 coupe de Ville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted April 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Sounds like keeping the starter clean/cool/dry in the valley of the engine is working if the starter lasted 165K...???...was that the original starter?? Yes Bob, it is the original, ...and guess what, nothing is wrong with it. I brought it to an alternator shop today, and the solenoid and starter works just fine. Now doing some head-scratching I convinced myself it cannot be the power cable coming from the battery, but I will check it when I get home. The only other root cause could be the "switched" cable, which I never checked. I did speak to a service persopn at a Caddy dealership, and he stated it could be either the "PassKey" is no good, or the key cylinder. He stated the cylinder has a wire that could have come dis-connected. Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? (P.S. - Underneath the intake it was good and dry, only one pine needle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Yes Bob, it is the original, ...and guess what, nothing is wrong with it. I brought it to an alternator shop today, and the solenoid and starter works just fine. I am really sorry you wasted your time trying to replace obviously good starter. A Perhaps, when the starter saga is over you'll read my first reply to find some tips which might allow you to diagnose the problem just in minutes. Well, it's called a learning curve. Good luck! The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted April 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 I am really sorry you wasted your time trying to replace obviously good starter. A Perhaps, when the starter saga is over you'll read my first reply to find some tips which might allow you to diagnose the problem just in minutes. Well, it's called a learning curve. Good luck! No, it wasn't a waste of time at all other than removing and re-installing the starter, which was the easy part. The much more arduous and needed task was the 1st time cleaning of the phenolic spacer plates, although I stumbled across this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry94 Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Just another angle on this. When I replaced my starter ( 6 years ago), I had already bought the new one before taking out the old. When I removed the old starter, I checked it with a set of booster cables and it worked fine. However I put the new starter in anyway. I took the old starter apart and it was corroded around the brush holders. It was hanging up the brushes. By handling the starter, the brushes made contact again and the starter worked. Just because you remove the starter and test it does not mean it is fine. Another example....................... I have borrowed my buddy's 4 x 4 Chevy a few times. (305 - 5L). Every couple months the starter is completely dead, no clicks. Since it is a 4 x 4 , you scoot under the truck with a hammer or rock, give the starter a few good cracks, and it's good for a couple more months. I had the starter off and apart and it looks like new inside. Cables/ends look great. It just dies, and a thump gets it going again. Check everything on yours anyway, you never know. Barry 2008 STS V82016 Colorado Z711970 Corvette LT-1 Coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted April 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Just another angle on this. When I replaced my starter ( 6 years ago), I had already bought the new one before taking out the old. When I removed the old starter, I checked it with a set of booster cables and it worked fine. However I put the new starter in anyway. I took the old starter apart and it was corroded around the brush holders. It was hanging up the brushes. By handling the starter, the brushes made contact again and the starter worked. Just because you remove the starter and test it does not mean it is fine. Another example....................... I have borrowed my buddy's 4 x 4 Chevy a few times. (305 - 5L). Every couple months the starter is completely dead, no clicks. Since it is a 4 x 4 , you scoot under the truck with a hammer or rock, give the starter a few good cracks, and it's good for a couple more months. I had the starter off and apart and it looks like new inside. Cables/ends look great. It just dies, and a thump gets it going again. Check everything on yours anyway, you never know. Barry You know, I've done the "hammer thing" before, and it has worked. The starter shop shops started and stopped it a dozen times, but, ...you maybe right. I guess the thing for me to do is, check the 12V switched cable right now, in the "failed condition" and isolate whether it is that, or the starter. Unfortunately, with it re-assembled, its going to have to wait until I get my taxes done. GOOD TIP, THANKS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 I did speak to a service persopn at a Caddy dealership, and he stated it could be either the "PassKey" is no good, or the key cylinder. He stated the cylinder has a wire that could have come dis-connected. Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? If it is a PASS key problem, there will be a trouble code stored in the system. Enter the diagnostics and run the codes to be sure. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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