Memory Seat Module

[GreenMachine]

Well turns out thats what wrong and why my driver seat doesn't move.

Apparantly the Mirrors and Seat are on 2 seperate modules. Well the mirrors work just fine, so in order to fix this, it would be over/under $1000 (but close to that figure and some 300-400 for the module itself), including the 4 hours it took for them to figure out if it was the MSM even though the MSM isn't giving a dead code-if they do that?-and the only code I'm getting is still that batt 2 out of range code-MSM B0856-, I have a history code the seems to reapear but my simply because it of that module it gets wonky-MSM B2120 "Lumbar Up/Down Sensor Failed".

Sound resonable to you guys?....I not going to say what I think because I might get banned (that bad of an opinion).

I went to a non-dealership since I figured it would be cheaper, but they have to order the part threw the dealer so I should have just went there first, and they would have checked the module first rather than all the votages of the wires around the darn thing to simply, possibly, just want to run up the bill. The guy on the phone said "I didn't want to have to take the seat off and checked all I could that way but had to in the end anyway". Other than not haveing a tester...I basically did the same thing, and the guys at the shop I had the brakes done at, test under there...and said it probibly the module...which I told to the tech that we thought was going to work on our car, well he wasn't the guy who turned out to be working on it.

Any of you have a part number for the module? Would like to lookup how much it is.

Thanks.

Ed

[Ranger]

Here's a parts list for the '94 - '99 Devilles.

http://gallery.iametarq.com/cars/cadillac%...e/parts%20list/

[GreenMachine]

thanks

[GreenMachine]

looked up the price, GMPartsdirect wants $200 inlcuding shipping for the module. This shop wanted $389, and that didn't include labor. For that price I guess I'll buy the module, the factory service manual and put it in myself.

I know the mechanics have to eat, but thats a heft mark-up on the part, especially when they are charging me 320 bucks for the 4 hours it took them to figure out whats wrong...when I had already told them to check the module out near the beginning rather than the stovepipe sized wireing harness for the car.

[GreenMachine]

Ok here's an update, it seems I might be being taken for a ride.

My car after getting it back from the shop that were supposed to fix my driver side seat problem (they came highly recommended by many) seems to have only cause me more grief (I know my father and I didn't authorize them to go ahead an get the module but I'll explain in a second) Upon sitting down in my car, I noticed that when i put my key in, the mirrors, radio didn't go to driver 2. Well I try to adjust the mirror manually with the little joystick, nothing, then the dash sends out some messages about electronics, we call the guy over, he looks puzzled. Start tinkering under the seat, 20 minutes later he has all but the seat working again. He apparantly left some stuff unplugged from the module he said and didn't relize he had to plug the stuff back in since he determined the module was bad and figured that it wouldn't send signals to the other modules...that when my dad and I just looked at each other.

Ok that was intresting, everyone makes mistakes, we got back in the car, all working as it was before we took the car in (basically we paid 300 some bucks to find out what was wrong...which apparantly is because they check everywire that pertains to the power seat.)

Well several hours later (maybe 4 or 5 max) I have to go pick my brother up from the movies.

As soon as I turn the key forward battery volts pops up and as the rest of the lights from the first moment the key is turned turn off, the volts plumet to 10 from 13, and all I did was turn the key forward. Usually below 11 is hard to start....well, it barely cranks over, took four to five attempts, turning the twliight sentinial off and giveing some gas finally got it turn over. On the first attempt to start the car, oddly enough fuel door opened, the trunk poped open, the car dinged, and the dash got dim.

The whole ride there I could swear I felt it hesitating or wanting to stall a couple times, and anytime I stopped and my brakes lights were on it would go from 13.4-13.6 volts or so to 10-12, 9 once while in the Wendys drive thru (my brothers friends were hungry and treated me to a drink and chicken sandwhich). Once or twice the car rocked forward like I had taken my foot off the brake and the pedal got stiff for that moment. When I would start driving again it went right back up to about 13.3-13.5 volts or if I put it in park.

Something isn't right. So I Took my dad out for a spin, went to McDonalds got a shake, then took it on the highway, seems to have helped get it more charge, but as soon as we got home, turned it off, tried to start it, same deal as before (easier to crank over though since it was warm but the volts quickly droped to 10 and below).

Now they said while it was there the battery did run down once (from any number of things I'd imagine, door open for 4 hours, trunk open, hood open, lots of lights eating up the power) but I drove at least 30 mins to get my brother and 30-40 on the way back (maybe longer since I did miss a turn). I would think, especially on the way back when it was 40-50mph driving with only a stop or two, that it would have charged it up again.

I did a test when I got home. I shut the engine down. Waited a moment. Turned the key forward, battery volts read about 13, droped slowly and stayed at 12. Then I waited another moment, it droped a little more, below 11. I turned it over (one turn did it but it struggled. The next time I turned the twilight sentinieal off, it held steady at 12-13. I turned the key over and wham it started droping and tapered out at 10 volts. Cranked her over and it quickly jumped up to 13, but then droped again, then went back up, while I let it idle for a bit 2 or 3 times I heard a sound, could really make it out but the lights flickered breifly and the engine went to a rough idle for a moment.

So thats intresting.

I'm now also wondering if maybe the memory seat module is fine.

They nicely disconnected the vertical motor (the one that lets it go back and forth) and it can be jumped with a 12 volt tool to either bring the seat forward or back (ground one wire, power the other)...but get this:

The MSM KNOWS that its unplugged and not hooked up. Doesn't sound to me like the MSM is broken if its giveing me codes and telling me whats unplugged down there.

So these are the two codes I recieve:

MSM B0856 Current - Battery 2 Out of Range

MSM B2118 Current - Front Vertical Sensor Failed (from my understanding th sensor is in the motor).

I'm starting to slowly lose faith in the mechanics at all the shops I go to, and might just bite the bullet and get a FSM and some tools and start doing this stuff myself like I should have done the first time I discovered this site. I know I can, but its a matter of that I thought they would have all the equipement to easily do it and certainly not take 4 hours to find the problem, I know electronics are tricky but.....

So far I'm in the hole 4 hours of labor @ $84, that gives me= $336 gone, if I let them "finish what they started" the MSM would be $320+1 hour of labor @ $84=$404. Put those together and its $740 altogether. My figures earlier were slighty higher because my dad misunderstood over the phone.

The car is going back there tommorow (by tow truck or jump if she wont start in the morning), or she'll get there on monday.

[epricedright]

Check your battery cables at the battery, especially the ground. They probably disconnected the ground and didn't tighten it back up, thinking they were going to have to disco it again before replacing the module. If they're tight, check for corrosion at the batt terminals, especialy in the red terminal.

I'd try to save you and your Dad some money if I were you and do some of these repairs yourself....you sound knowledgeable enough. The guys here can help walk you through anything. The FSM and tools will be much less than the labor you'll pay. You can get a cheap starter set of tools at places like Costco, Sams, Sears, etc.

[winterset]

How old is the battery? - I know that when a lead/acid battery is near it's end, a good discharge can put it over the edge. - not a fault of the mechanics, but their necessary work put it there. if you continue to get starting issues, and the battery is older than 4 years, replace it & save the hedaches. - doesn't help that it's a side mount, and we had a very hot summer.

[epricedright]

How old is the battery? - I know that when a lead/acid battery is near it's end, a good discharge can put it over the edge. - not a fault of the mechanics, but their necessary work put it there. if you continue to get starting issues, and the battery is older than 4 years, replace it & save the hedaches. - doesn't help that it's a side mount, and we had a very hot summer.

Good thinking winterset, makes sense! I'd check the cable connctions first though. Just curious, how does the battery being a "side mount" affect things? I recently replaced my battery at Costco and had the option of going w/ a Dual side post/top post battery for another $10 or $20. I wish I would have gone that route as it sure would make it easier to give my wife her occasional jump (she likes to leave her doam light on at night). I know what you're thinking Mike.

[Ranger]

Now they said while it was there the battery did run down once (from any number of things I'd imagine, door open for 4 hours, trunk open, hood open, lots of lights eating up the power)

Not sure they could run down the battery unless they left the key on. The car has a battery saver system which it will cut power after about :10 min. if a door, trunk, glove box, etc. is left open.

[GreenMachine]

Alright looked at the battery and there isn't a date on it (the little holes for the month and year aren't punched) but it was put in within the last 3 years or so.

Before going to work I checked all connections, they are firm and tight, no problems there.

While I was at work my father took it to the shop we normally go to in order to have the battery tested (the other isn't open on weekends), they closed earlier than we thought but they agreed that the battery was most likely bad and also checked out the connections. Might take it over to autozone or pepboys, they supposingly let you not only barrow the scan tool but check batterys for free.

Will continue to update. What I'm more concerned about is why would the MSM indicate that the seat is unplugged if its broken, I'm gonna have a look under the myself next week or tommorow to see if they are trying to pull a fast one and its something simple.

[GreenMachine]

Well the car has gone nerly completely dead TWICE today. Started in the morning ok, went to a friends house around the block, was going to go eat. Try to start it, trunk opens, I almost get it to start but nope, dead infront of his house. Started fine first thing in the morning.

We take his car, come back, jump it, starts fine, run it for awhile, I bring it home and we head out again in his car.

While I'm gone my dad tries to start it, bam, trunk opens, can't get it started, I go outside just abit ago after the Yankies game (good game huh? I think bodybyfisher has the yankies avator) to see if it starts, nope, nearly completely dead, now I'm gonna be in a tough spot to get my dad to his VA rehab in the morning... This could be the second time he missed an appointment because of this shop mistakes, first time was when we scheduled an appointment and the car sat around for a day and half, now because of thier screw-up something isn't right with either how the car charges or they killed me battery, either way I'm angry that we paid nearly 400 bucks for them to make the car unrelieable.

[GreenMachine]

Battery has been replaced, turns over just fine. Charges fine, stays within spec at all time while driving.

I am expierancing a hesitation at nearly every stop and go, feels like it wants to stall. Cruising at a steady speeds it feels like a quick on/off. When at WOT it only seemed to "miss" once. I accelerated in second at WOT and it paused for just a moment about halfway to redline, last night I took it threw side streets, constant cruising, heavy acceleration to try and bring up some codes but none seem to be coming up.

Before the work was done none of this was happening, I'm going to check out the plug wires and coil pack to see if they might have touched something there. Very frustratating situation.

I had assumed this was related to the dead battery so when it was doing it with the bad battery I figured it would go away, but still remains.

EDIT: could I get a mod to change the topic name to "EGreen's Electronic Woes"

[GreenMachine]

situation has goten worse, tempertures were cooler this evening and at WOT you could feel it pause as it moves threw the powerband. Not good.

I'm gonna recheck all the battery and ground connections, guess I'll check the plugs and wires too. This is very frustrating.

[GreenMachine]

Now I'm faced with the question of, do I want to take it back there for them to fix this.....or will they just break something else!

[epricedright]

Now I'm faced with the question of, do I want to take it back there for them to fix this.....or will they just break something else!

Are these the same guys that did your brakes?

[GreenMachine]

no, the guys who did the brakes I actually know and trust and would certainly try thier best to keep me happy. The guys I'm talking about are suppose to be electronic specialists.

Update on the condition of the car- It has only gotten worse, when giving it some heavy throttle I could feel the car pause and shake, at highway speeds under load (going up a hill) it began to knock (I assume the big bangs I heard/felt were knocks, almost felt like back fire).

I decided to check the plugs/wires. I pulled them all off and all the plugs out, in the front bank cylinder 6 I believe (or 3rd from the passenger side) was very oily and appeared to be fouled and possibly not fireing (plug wire possible or bad plug). I still have recieved NO codes other than the ones pretianing to the MSM and seat. All the plugs look "ugly" but 91,000 miles will do that to anything

The engine has also began using oil, I put maybe a 1/2 to one quart in at the beginning of the week and I had to add a whole quart. Something is terribly wrong.

On the rear bank, the first from the drivers side had carbon track/crack right up to where the plug wire plugs onto.

Will replace all plugs tomorrow (will get the AC Delco's) and see if situation improves.

It could be just a coincidence that all this crap is happening after it was serviced at that electronic specialist shop, but its certainly frustrating and between the two happenings its hard to believe its simply coincidence.

IMPORTANT: I made a BIG mistake. I tightened the beauty/acustic cover to much and now the thing that the bolts that hold the cover on with are unscrewing with the cover, anyone have a good way to get out of this sticky situation?

EDIT: Have been reading many posts now, Rangers post here: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=4068&st=75 seems to actually somewhat describe what my problem was like the first couple days, at first I thought it might be tranny too, since it felt funny at takeoff. I will continue to update, and will see if just replaceing plugs does it.

[Ranger]

IMPORTANT: I made a BIG mistake. I tightened the beauty/acustic cover to much and now the thing that the bolts that hold the cover on with are unscrewing with the cover, anyone have a good way to get out of this sticky situation?

Not a big mistake nor a problem. My '97 used to do that on one stud. When you take it out, just remove the acorn nut from the stud and replace the stud tightly, then just snug up the acorn nuts. They don't need to be real tight. If the condition persists, try a little Loktite on the stud threads.

[GreenMachine]

Alright pulled all the plugs today and replaced them with genuine AC Delco 41-950 Spark plugs, they just happen to come in an 8 Pack

Ran me a total of 52 dollars after taxes. Problem is solved, she accelerates briskly from any speed and my fuel mileage quickly increased, idel is even smoother. Guess the battery problem whihc lead to hard stars was just the kick the car needed to have a few common maintance problems creep up.

Great forum here and thank you all for you help and suggestions, and thank you Forum Search for containing hundreds of threads that gave me ideas to try, I started small with the plugs and once in a while you get lucky and the first thing is the fix I could have saved some by ordering online but I wanted to get this fixed sooner rather than later since it was getting worse and worse.

Pictures:

Close up of worst plugs:

All is well

[BodybyFisher]

Is that a crack in the lower picture or a carbon track? Look closely to see if you are missing the platinum pads on the electrodes

[GreenMachine]

I think it could be both

Some have the pads, some have the pads worn down, one or two don't have pads at all.

[Ranger]

Looks like a bad case of carbon tracking. That surely would have caused a misfire.

[GreenMachine]

Well just as you had talked about in your thread about the problem being fixed for abit, it has returned for me. So I will move onto replaceing wires, just passed the 92,000 mile mark tonight so I guess the 100,000 mile service is coming early

Right now its not nearly as bad as it was before, but it does "skip" a beat at stoplights. I have feeling if I remove the plug from cylinder 6 it will be fouled again from not fireing, oddly enough that would be the same as the wire you had that was out of range in your test if indeed that is the bad wire, will replace them all however.

I had the guy at the place I bought them set the gaps to what they should be, if the gaps were off I wouldn't think this would happen but then again this is really my first car I've worked on and snowthrowers/lawn mowers are a bit differant (they fire seemingly threw anything). Guess I'll get one and set it myself. I also didn't torque them persay, I just tightened them down real good with a ratchet, but once again that wouldn't cause the misfire situation I'm having here.

Now if only the weather, my work schedule, and the price is right I'll have them replaced sooner than later.

If I can time it right I'll change the oil, do the wires, and maybe change the trans fluid. I heard that these can go their whole life on the same fluid but that doesn't sound right to me, but then again if it aint broke don't fix it...but there is always preventative maintenance. I heard there is way to check the "trans fluid life" just like the oil but my searching has come up dry (of course I'll find it now that I asked though )

[GreenMachine]

Well just as you had talked about in your thread about the problem being fixed for abit, it has returned for me. So I will move onto replaceing wires, just passed the 92,000 mile mark tonight so I guess the 100,000 mile service is coming early

Right now its not nearly as bad as it was before, but it does "skip" a beat at stoplights. I have feeling if I remove the plug from cylinder 6 it will be fouled again from not fireing, oddly enough that would be the same as the wire you had that was out of range in your test if indeed that is the bad wire, will replace them all however.

I had the guy at the place I bought them set the gaps to what they should be, if the gaps were off I wouldn't think this would happen but then again this is really my first car I've worked on and snowthrowers/lawn mowers are a bit differant (they fire seemingly threw anything). Guess I'll get one and set it myself. I also didn't torque them persay, I just tightened them down real good with a ratchet, but once again that wouldn't cause the misfire situation I'm having here.

Now if only the weather, my work schedule, and the price is right I'll have them replaced sooner than later.

If I can time it right I'll change the oil, do the wires, and maybe change the trans fluid. I heard that these can go their whole life on the same fluid but that doesn't sound right to me, but then again if it aint broke don't fix it...but there is always preventative maintenance. I heard there is way to check the "trans fluid life" just like the oil but my searching has come up dry (of course I'll find it now that I asked though )

Alright well I checked all the conections and boots, one of them was lose, tightened it up, drove the car and it feels normal again, time will tell though if maybe better weather helped it (on another note my muffler sounds much louder at a did several WOTS diagnosing the problem )

Funny thing actually, I called my boss after I put up that quote, said he didn't need me today, my manual arrived, and the sun came out, I didn't use the manual yet for the misfire problem (seems to be ok) but I can see that there's almost no way in hell it should have taken 4 hours for them to go threw this power seat check, looking at the flow charts and diagrams I'm going to tackle this myself and it appears it could just be the switch, or a bad wire. The flowcharts don't point to a bad module, then again once I start checking it out that story may change.

Also apparantly the site that I got the code translation from was wrong (or in the second addition of the manuals correct. The code is not Batt 2 our of range (that would be B0846), but instead "B0856 +5 Volt Referance out of range" which simply states (also with a nice diagram) "Test the battery for proper voltage" 2. "If batter voltage is OK, test for an open in CKT742 (RED) between S311 and the memory seat module"

havien this will surely put me on the right track and either the Ropat guys didn't check their manuals that they claimed the read from (said they get something right from GM).

The tricky driver seat continues.

[GreenMachine]

Most likely my last reply to this topic unless someone has questions on the subject.

Well decided a total "redo" of my sparkplug job was needed. Pulled all the plugs and wires. Checked them all with the new multimeter I bought (was a 25 dollar unit on clearance for 6 bucks at Sears, its been replaced by a digital so they are trying to sell off the old analog gauage ones, doesn't bother me since I have good eyes and can read the numbers ok...well with my glasses on ) All were well within spec, intresting enough they also didn't say AC Delco on them but some other brand name (portor or something I'll check that later).

The GAP on my plugs were all the same...problem was they were wrong. Should have been .050 but instead all were .060 or something like that (don't remember off hand). My manual says they should be .050 so that's what they are, I guess the newer northstars must use .060 since they guy said they plugs are used in cadillacs and gaped accordingly (he then said he checked to make sure they were right but should have checked myself).

Upon inspecting the plugs one had the same carbon track that the old plug had on it, only differance is that it had 2.

What happened is when I reseated all the wires after the problem reoccured *(mis-fire) I moved the boot to a differant position on the wire, and just next to the old carbon track a new one was created, this is what gave me the false sense that it was simply a loose wire and why it returned a few days later.

While I wait for the weather to clear up again I have one of the best looking old plugs in there and cleaned the spark plug boot the best I could hoping that will let it hold off until I can get a replacement wire and the weather cooperating at the same time.

Hope this long going thread helps someone...may it be Memory Seat or spark plug related.