caddypete Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I had my car in for a four wheel alignment at the dealer, and was told my rear knuckles need to be replaced, what I want to know s how hard of a job is it? and what does it entail? The last time I was at the dealer they wanted to replace my rear brakes for 387.00, I did them myself for under 80.00. and at the price for the knuckles 620.00 per side, I figured I would see how tough of a job it is. I do have a good supply of tools in the garage. But never dealt with rear knuckles on a car before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Did they say why they needed to be replaced? Bushing replacement? Are they replacing the hub bearings also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I'm surprised that the rear knuckle needs replacing on a 5yr old caddy. Not much on them to wear other then the 2 hefty pressed bushings that the control arms bolt up to. Unless you drive like Bo and Luke from Dukes of Hazard I would think they should hold up longer. A common symptom of worn rear knuckles would be a creaking sound, generally going over slow bumps and dips. Or you could (while in park and turned off) try pushing down on the rear bumper to see if you hear a creaking sound. Then try pulling up on the rear by grabbing ahold of the edge of the tire well and lifting up.... hear anything? Other then the shop telling you that you needed a new knuckle did you notice anything irratic about your car prior to taking it in for the alignment? Also is your caddy still under warranty? "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted April 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 I just bought the car in January, it had 56,400 miles on it. I could feel the car drifting alot and seemed to be always correcting it, so I had the tires replaced with the original Michlin Symentry figuring the ones on it were pretty worn, that helped but still could feel the drifting so I went in for a alignment, thats when I was told the rear knuckles need replacment, according to the mechanic he said because of the knuckles the rear of the car is able to move side to side giving me the drifting feeling, he then pushed on the rear side of the car and it would move about 1 1/2 inches. but there was no real noise, I did notice a clunk every now and then coming from the rear, but figured it was the golf ball I found in the trunk. because after removing it I really never noticed the noise again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Sounds like a load of BS to me. Do yourself a favor jack up the rear of the car (be careful and use correct jacking techiques and a jackstand because I am going to ask you to apply pressure) After the car is up grab and shake the wheel back and forth at 12 and 6 o'clock and see if there is any play. Then do the same at 3 and 9 o'clock. If there is a problem you will feel it. If you do this make note if its 12/6 or 3/9 causing the problem and let us know.. Check each rear wheel. If you can get someone to put it up on a lift even better (I usually give the guy a tip at my tire place to look under the car for 5 minutes).. Someone with a 2000 manual please scan and post a photo of the Eldorado rear suspension...I want to see if there are replaceable bushings. On my 96 ther are a bunch of bushings that I believe can be replaced.. here is a photo of the 96, ignore the red circle that is the rear stabilizer bushing. The green circles at the knuckle top and bottom could be bad, its possible that they can be replaced without replacing the knuckle. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted April 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 I just went out and pushed down on rear bumper and pulled up on wheel well and there was no noise besdes the sound of the gas sloshing around in the tank. I pulled the drivers rear tire and checked the bushings they look intact but with a pry bar I could get the rear disk to move side to side pretty easiely and a little bit just by hand. My friend told me the reason they are so expensive is you can't just replace the bushing you have to replace the whole knuckle because the bushings are pressed into it, is that the truth? By the quick look I took of it, it looks like you have to take the sway bar and brake assy apart to replace it. Is that what needs to be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Let me do some research on this Thursday and I will get back to you. I am in the process of doing front and rear springs and struts, if during the job I notice bushings worn out, I will replace them if they are available. I will stop by my dealer tomorrow and check it out, Mike If they are replaceable its a matter of finding a good machine shop to press them out unless its easy to do yourself. The old Cadillacs had two upper control arm bushings that would wear out, and need to be replaced. You actually could lose the upper control arm off the frame if they got bad enough. I got really good at doing that job. I use to cut / collapse them out and press the new ones in. I would be disappointed if service bushings were not available.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Im also interested in this because my dealer told me the same thing. In my case the bushings are squeaking, sounds terrible. I was able to get an alignment on the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 I just went out and pushed down on rear bumper and pulled up on wheel well and there was no noise besdes the sound of the gas sloshing around in the tank. I pulled the drivers rear tire and checked the bushings they look intact but with a pry bar I could get the rear disk to move side to side pretty easiely and a little bit just by hand. My friend told me the reason they are so expensive is you can't just replace the bushing you have to replace the whole knuckle because the bushings are pressed into it, is that the truth? By the quick look I took of it, it looks like you have to take the sway bar and brake assy apart to replace it. Is that what needs to be done? Did you jack the wheel up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 caddypete, Seriously I would take it to a place that only installs tires and does alignments and see what they have to say. Places like Kost and Dunn Tire for example. I have a feeling that they'll tell you a different story but then again if I'm wrong then at least you have a second opinion. My car moves easily if I push on it and so does Scotty's (I just chatted with him about his). Like I said, usually it'll creak if the knuckle bushings are bad..... and I just have a hard time believing that those bushings are bad on a 5 yr old caddy with less than 60K miles. Probably only needs an alignment but your garage might be looking for an easy way to make extra profit. Let us know what you decide on. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted April 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Scotty, when I pushed on the bumper and lifted on wheel well the car was on the ground there was no noise, after that I pulled it into the garage and jacked the drivers rear up and removed the wheel to take a look, my suspension looks very much like the one you posted if not identical. Tommorow I will jack it up again and see how much play I get with the wheel on, didn't think about checking the play with the wheel on when I jacked it up to get a look at the knuckle,I also didn't think about checking the bushings that are on the other end of the "a" frame just the ones at the top and bottom of brake assy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Don't worry about the bushings attaching the control arm to the frame for now, I am more concerned about the bushings related to the knuckle at top and bottom. If you don't have play there, I am not sure why they indicated that you needed knuckles.... im hitting the sack, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdictas Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 CaddyPete, When you were at the alignment shop, did you get a computer print out of your cars settings? Drift can also be caused by caster misalignment. Just something else to think about. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 OK here is the scoop. The bushings are not replaced, they replace the knuckle as an assembly with the bushings. What a waste. Anyway, I was able to get the knuckle for $305.60 per side. I do not believe that this is a difficult job for say an alignment shop to do, or yourself if you are handy, assuming that you do in fact need knuckles.. Kger and I were talking last night, and Kger believes that an alignment can also cause wander as was mentioned by cdictas, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdictas Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Mike, Just as an FYI, my 99 sts was wandering to the passenger side. I took it in for an alignment and found out the passenger side caster was out of spec 1/2 degree. This doesn't sound like much, however the drivers side was in spec on the opposite end of the range. I didn't have them adjust the caster because the tech told me he had to drill out the strut mounts in order to properly adjust the caster. After reviewing the manual, which match what the tech told me, I'll be bringing my car back in to have the caster adjusted. Just another note, I like using Sears for alignments because they use hunter alignment equipment, which spits out a report telling you what your alignment was and what the new alignment settings are. They also guarantee there alignment for 6 six months. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 The Sears close to me is relatively new and their alignment machine isn't equiped to "properly" align my STS because of the low front end.... what a nitemare that was. My mechanic also confirmed this. Personally I think Sears is like going to Pepboys. Their ok at best if you don't have a problem but boy if you do you're in for a real battle. Most "tire only" places have the best units and are designed to accomodate the low front end of many caddys. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 I am not happy with the term wandering. Wandering to me is unpredictable and random something the knuckles could cause. Pulling is predictable and could be caused by the need for an alignment. I have a slight pull to the right, but they were unable to align my rear wheels as the body was too low. Are we wandering here or pulling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted April 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 It is wandering, it doesn't pull in either direction. I did pull and push on the top of the wheel while it was sitting on the ground and there is play and a definate clunking sound, it does that on both wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 It is wandering, it doesn't pull in either direction. I did pull and push on the top of the wheel while it was sitting on the ground and there is play and a definate clunking sound, it does that on both wheels. Its amazing that you can get play while its sitting on the ground. Sounds like the bushings that are part of the knuckles then, the knuckles need to be replaced as your dealer said. I got that price above at www.gmotors.com Good Luck, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted April 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I searched the web for parts and found these, they are alot cheaper than any otherers I have come across, do you know if these are the correct part numbers because they are cheaper a pair than I could find for each. I emailed them with the parts I was looking for and they sent me this reply. https://www.gmotors.com/ cadillac Model eldorado Year 2000 Parts LEFT REAR KNUCKLE (18060630) - $98.52 RIGHT REAR KNUCKLE (18060631) - $98.52 FREIGHT (UPS) - $10.00 Total Cost $207.04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 It is wandering, it doesn't pull in either direction. I did pull and push on the top of the wheel while it was sitting on the ground and there is play and a definate clunking sound, it does that on both wheels. Wait a second. Just so you know.... I can get mine to clunk (rather a pronounced clink) too if I grab the top of the tire firmly and give quick inward and outward jerks. I can get that to do it on both sides..... always have been. There is a small amount of play in the bearing which is normal. Now a lot of play would not be good but i think you would hear a whurring sound. That's what you may be hearing. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I searched the web for parts and found these, they are alot cheaper than any otherers I have come across, do you know if these are the correct part numbers because they are cheaper a pair than I could find for each. I emailed them with the parts I was looking for and they sent me this reply. https://www.gmotors.com/ cadillac Model eldorado Year 2000 Parts LEFT REAR KNUCKLE (18060630) - $98.52 RIGHT REAR KNUCKLE (18060631) - $98.52 FREIGHT (UPS) - $10.00 Total Cost $207.04 WOW! I SPOKE to them over the phone today and they gave me $305.60 per side! I have spend a lot of money with them and know them on a first name basis... I thought that was GREAT considering the price the dealer gave you figuring 100% markup... I would recheck that price, maybe this is the hub bearing?....I hope you are correct, but can you imagine the dealer charging you $600? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I would recheck that price.... I was thinking the exact same thing. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted April 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Never thought about it that way because it was 612.00 per side installed, So after their qoute of 387.00 for one set of brakes, and I got the parts for under 80.00 it sounds about reasonable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 OH wait a second, I am losing my mind! I discussed this today with my local cadillac dealer because I had o-rings on order. My local dealer gave me the price of $305, that makes sense now, that you got that price from gmotors....I am losing it... LOL... Good Job! Mike Now think about that, the part is costing YOU... about $100, it probably costs them much less, and with installation its $600 from them! The job involves very basic work...nothing complicated.. I am SO happy the knuckles are cheap just in case I need them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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