Scotty Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 I was in my cadillac dealer today buying bushings for my front end and started talking to the mechanic that does the time serting. I asked him what percentage of engines does he think the head gaskets go on, I said 1%, and he laughed. He said that is all I do... 5% no, 10% was the answer.. Ten out of 100... What do we think about that? I told him I was leaking oil, and that I could sometimes smell oil burning. He said they leak like mad.. He said, what year? I replied 1996. He outright laughed... And proceeded to talk about the case half leak I was like Whoa, could it be anything else? Cam covers, well maybe.... What do we think about that? He also said that sometimes the metal in a bolt hole can be weaked and porous and the time-sert can fail. Have we seen that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 As has been said many times before, every Northstar he sees needs timeserts so I would have to ask where he is getting his data from. I sure hope he is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 As has been said many times before, every Northstar he sees needs timeserts so I would have to ask where he is getting his data from. I sure hope he is wrong. Larry, wrong in terms of the percentage? And you are correct, he has a slanted view on the engine as he never sees one that is doing great... Do you know what the parts department is next to the garage where they do the 'major surgery, time serting, etc, I think it should be moved away from the parts department.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I agree -- all that mechanic sees are broken engines, by definition, so I'm sure it's very probable that 10% of all the repairs he sees are Timesert repairs. That doesn't say that 10% of the ENGINES ON THE ROAD need Timesert repairs...just that of all the repairs he makes, 10% of those are Timeserts. Reading quickly, that sounds bad...woah, 10% of all repairs are Timesert repairs! But if you say that only 30% of the vehicle production comes in for major repairs, that indicates a Timesert rate of only 3%, a much more believable number to me. Assuming that a Timesert procedure has to be done only once to be effective, I think the most reliable data would be a survey of all dealerships, for a count of total Timesert jobs. If it turns out that the dealerships, collectively, have performed 90,000 Timesert jobs on Northstar engines, and it turns out that Cadillac produced 800,000 Northstar engines, we'd have a Timesert ratio of 11.2%. Those numbers are obviously examples only, but I think that would be the only data that comes close to the true number. We can fairly easily find out the number of Northstars produced. Obviously, it's the number of Timesert repairs that's hard to find out. It should be said that simply counting dealership Timesert repairs won't count the DIY jobs, or those done by third party mechanics, but it'd be a good start at us knowing a true number...though it would be on the low side, not counting any non-dealership Timesert repair. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 OH, I did not make it clear, the tech I spoke to ONLY did head gaskets / time-sert jobs! His job is major surgery, time-serts, case-half leaks and whatever else is considered major... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 OH, I did not make it clear, the tech I spoke to ONLY did head gaskets / time-sert jobs! His job is major surgery, time-serts, case-half leaks and whatever else is considered major... Although it's a bit troubling that they have mechanics dedicated to these procedures (I guess every auto dealership does, though), it really shows just how common a Timesert job would be to HIM. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Yeah, in his case it would be 100% need timeserts. You'd think GM would have some statistics on this. Perhaps they do, but I doubt that it is for public consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Yeah, in his case it would be 100% need timeserts. You'd think GM would have some statistics on this. Perhaps they do, but I doubt that it is for public consumption. It may be if the statistics are good, I am going to write and see what I can get.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I am quite sure they would not admit if there were a problem. However, I would be very interested to see what GM says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I am quite sure they would not admit if there were a problem. However, I would be very interested to see what GM says I can not imagine that 22% or even 10% of the engines has head gasket problems, I would be appalled and very disappointed in GM for allowing this and for NOT fixing the problem. Hell, there would be NO reason why time-serting at the factory wouldn't make sense if they DID have a problem, it would just be a matter of adding the process into the engine manufacture process. GM would NOT allow a potential problem like this remain outstanding if it was bad, it would kill their sales and cause potential class action suits. I know they DO have these statistics, the question is will they release them.. Too many people want to jump on the band wagon to rip GM, if this is NOT a problem GM should fess up... with statistics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 As far as the oil leak, the biggest culprit I've been able to find on my 93 is the oil pan bolts. I've been all over under the engine, with dye in the oil and a black light. The case half seal is not leaking, except for a slight leak in one spot. The pan bolts are another story. I've read about case porosity on the early lower case halfs. On mine, if you remove an oil pan bolt, it is sopping wet with oil. The bolts are outside of the pan seal, so in theory, they should be dry. The oil seems to be seeping into the bolt holes, where it runs down the bolt to the pan lip, then spreads out and finally runs down the side of the pan in a sheet. And once it comes down the side of the pan, it spreads all across the bottom because of the casting ridge on center of the pan - including going over to drip on the exahust pipe that runs under the engine. Its actually quite interesting to watch with the engine running and dyed oil in it. I've removed, cleaned with brake cleaner, coated with thread sealant, and replaced every bolt I can get to. It stops the leaks. Unfortunately, there are a handful of bolts I can't get to with the transmission in. But I have reduced the leaks by about 60 - 70% overall. Almost makes me wonder how many "case-half seal leaks" could really be fixed by stopping with the pan bolts, and whether sealing the pan bolt threads is a regular part of the case-half repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Jack thats great info, I will get under there and do the same, I am smelling oil burning, I'll bet I have the same problem. What did you seal the threads with silicone type or the tried and true permatex type? Where did you buy dye to put into the crankcase, you just use a black light then right? Do you have an inch pound torque wrench? I was considering buying one, for jobs such as the pan.. I was looking at this one http://jcsonlinetoolshed.com/product.php/13638/0/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 jackc, Thanks for the info. I have the same problem with oil leaking onto the exhaust pipe. The oil pan is coated with oil. It's beginning to drive me nuts as oil smoking on a hot exhaust pipe smells bad. I'm going to seal my pan bolts and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I used the permatex thread sealant. The dye was hard for me to find. The independent parts store I use finally managed to get some for me. It is similar to this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...&s=hi&n=3753001 I just put the dye in, drove it to mix it up in the oil, and started looking using a black light. I found a pretty neat battery powered flourescent one at Spencers Gifts. Use brake cleaner to clean the pan so that you can see more clearly where the oil is really coming from. I don't have an inch pound wrench either. I just limited myself to snugging well with a 1/4 inch ratchet. The pan being coated with oil is the same problem I had. Its much better now. I just wish I could get to the bolts that are blocked by the trans. Fortunately, the pan bolts on the front of the engine are accessible, and the leaks there tend to spread the most - I guess due to blow-back while driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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