97SLS Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 I live in Ohio so it is pretty flat here. I inherited the car from my uncle who lived in Indianapolis. I notice a little better mileage with 93 versus 89 but I don't drive the car hard. I drive it mostly on the highway also and the computer says I am getting around 23.5 but I have not checked it myself. I understand that it's flat, but what's the altitude? 0? 1000? 2000? 3000? higher? It depends on what he's smoking that day. Just kidding. I don't smoke and I am a female. THU-I don't know the altitude here. I am not sure how to find out. My google skillz are not that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 I live in Ohio so it is pretty flat here. I inherited the car from my uncle who lived in Indianapolis. I notice a little better mileage with 93 versus 89 but I don't drive the car hard. I drive it mostly on the highway also and the computer says I am getting around 23.5 but I have not checked it myself. I understand that it's flat, but what's the altitude? 0? 1000? 2000? 3000? higher? It depends on what he's smoking that day. Just kidding. I don't smoke and I am a female. THU-I don't know the altitude here. I am not sure how to find out. My google skillz are not that great. Your altitude would be between 1,549 ft and 456 ft above mean sea level. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 .... THU-I don't know the altitude here. I am not sure how to find out. My google skillz are not that great. Cincinnati = 647 Cleveland = 635 Columbus = 755 Dayton = 739 Google Earth GPS data. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thu Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Your altitude is pretty low. In that case, you would probably see significant power and economy gains by sticking with premium. At the altitude where I drive (between 6000 and 8700 feet), there is ZERO difference between regular (85 octane) and premium (91 octane). I'd say you'd see appreciable difference between the two grades especially during spirited driving where you normally drive. Again, it won't hurt anything to use regular (89 octane where you live). You'll probably see a drop in performance and economy. 2003 Seville STS 43k miles with the Bose Sound, Navigation System, HID Headlamps, and MagneRide 1993 DeVille. Looks great inside and out! 298k miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 For what its worth... My 02 lives on a consistent diet of 87 octane and is driven almost exclusively at sea level... I find my cars performance is the same on 87 as it is on 94... and I have documented BETTER millage on the 87... about 1.1 miles per gallon better Where I live the "high test" stuff is mostly ethanol "enriched" and as we all know ethanol has less BTUs (energy) per gallon then "normal gas". More ethanol = more octane but More Ethanol = less mileage... Of course in areas of North America where they don't use ethanol (and these areas are shrinking daily) you might get better mileage with "high test" But rest assured that if there is ethanol in there it is pretty much a scientific impossibility to get better mileage with premium. Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Where I live the "high test" stuff is mostly ethanol "enriched" and as we all know ethanol has less BTUs (energy) per gallon then "normal gas". More ethanol = more octane but More Ethanol = less mileage...But rest assured that if there is ethanol in there it is pretty much a scientific impossibility to get better mileage with premium. Dunno about Vancouver, but here in NY both "regular" and "high test" are ethanol contaminated. That makes the comparison valid. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Ya everything here is "laced" with ethanol too... Some brands "proudly" display this on the pump... Others are more sneaky with labeled that read Cleaner burning "Oxygenated Gasoline" Here, the higher the octane the more corn syrup you get... Don't quote me, cause this is from memory, but I think the 87 here is 5% ethanol and the 94 is something like 18% maybe even 20% All kidding aside ethanol is a great fuel... As long as the delivery system is bone dry... Unlike gas that floats on water and doesn't mix ethanol loves to absorb water... Not a good thing. Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Unlike gas that floats on water and doesn't mix ethanol loves to absorb water... Not a good thing. There is a good side to that though. It will also absorb moisture in the tank during the winter. When was the last time you heard of "gas line freeze"? I still have 6 bottles of gas drier on the shelf in my garage that must be 30 yrs. old. Just have no use for it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 There is a good side to that though. It will also absorb moisture in the tank during the winter. When was the last time you heard of "gas line freeze"? I still have 6 bottles of gas drier on the shelf in my garage that must be 30 yrs. old. Just have no use for it anymore. That's funny. Funnier still, we used words like "enriched," "contaminated," or "laced." Surely ethanol "altered" gasoline has a purpose in places like NYC and Los Angeles, but it is NOT required nationwide. Its use in flyover country is simply a result of congressfolk pissing our money away for the sake of "corn belt" votes. Bastards! Maybe you guessed I don't live in the corn belt? Regards, Warren Here, the higher the octane the more corn syrup you get... Don't quote me, cause this is from memory, but I think the 87 here is 5% ethanol and the 94 is something like 18% maybe even 20% In NY, we're simply 10% added accross the board. It doesn't matter what grade you select. I'm surprised to hear its different by youse. In fact, I think you might be in error . . . . Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 In NY, we're simply 10% added accross the board. It doesn't matter what grade you select. I'm surprised to hear its different by youse. In fact, I think you might be in error . . . . Same here Warren. Everything is 10%. I seriously doubt it is more than 10%. Owners manual even says 15% is max if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yes I stand corrected.. according to the websites I checked 10% across the board now... I'll have to check this next time I fill... I would have sworn that the 94 stuff had a sign that stated "even more ethanol" Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thu Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Fortunately, here in the Rockies, not all of our fuel has been contaminated. It's easy to spot the laced fuel - it has that strong smell. 2003 Seville STS 43k miles with the Bose Sound, Navigation System, HID Headlamps, and MagneRide 1993 DeVille. Looks great inside and out! 298k miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMachine Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yes I stand corrected.. according to the websites I checked 10% across the board now... I'll have to check this next time I fill... I would have sworn that the 94 stuff had a sign that stated "even more ethanol" You may have seen an E85 pump, those are for the Flex Fuel vehicles. The Green's Machines 1998 Deville - high mileage, keeps on going, custom cat-back exhaust 2003 Seville - stock low mileage goodness! 2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG - Smaller supercharger pulley, Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Dyno tune, etc 1998 Firebird Formula - 408 LQ9 Stroker motor swap and all sorts of go fast stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 ... I would have sworn that the 94 stuff had a sign that stated "even more ethanol" Maybe you're thinking of an adult beverage? Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejdavid Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Spark knock is very common in modern lean-burning engines. Granted, not a heavy spark knock, but light knock under certain situations is even considered normal. It really is pretty benign. A 13:1 426 is probably a far cry from most modern consumer engines, and may be an apples-to-oranges comparison. I noticed no additional spark knock on mine when using lower grades, but the performance was flatter. Detonation is an almost instantaneous combustion of the fuel air mixture, as opposed to normal fast burn which some people mistakenly refer to as an explosion. It is not. Detonation is an explosion. It can take place so fast it will often be complete BEFORE top dead center while the piston is still moving upward. This can blow out the head gasket, if you are lucky. Detonation almost never takes place in normal production engines. Usually it takes place under supercharger boost conditions with an abnormally lean fuel air mixture condition, or in very high compression ratio engines with either/or lean conditions or low octane. I got detonation once in my Kenne Bell supercharged Lincoln Mk VII. If you ever get it you will not soon forget. In my case I punched the throttle faster then the fuel management unit could increase the fuel supply. I did this as a test and will never do it again. Basically, the engine tried to go backwards with no notice ahead of time at all, and no particular noise. I got very lucky. First, the head gaskets were old enough to have, apparently, adheard to both head and block, thus confining the explosion inside the cylindar(s). In addtion, the HO 5L has forged pistons and other rugged construction and the episode did not damage anything at all. Except I very nearly need to change my tidy-whities. It felt like hitting a brick wall for about a microsecond. Serious spark knock is also dangerous but less so, and gives pretty good warning. It sounds like someone dumped a fibe quietll of small bolts into the engine. It can destroy your spark plugs, and then your pistons, but usually only if it continues for more then a second or two. Just lift your foot off the throttle. This noise is what many spark knock sensors listen for. I also believe there are combustion indicators that work sooner using sensors sort of like O2 sensors. Preignition is, I believe, what takes place just short of serious spark knock. It is a sort of rusltling sound one hears that is more like someone dumped a fist full of frozen peas into the engine. Many engines do this as a matter of normal operation and I have never heard of any damage from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 There are some inacuracies in your post, but this should clear them up. http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/EngineBasics.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Here's my story and I'm stickin' to it: my '95 lost just short of 1 mpg when I ran it on regular. Additionally, on regular, it wouldn't break the tires loose when it shifted second gear. The performance loss went otherwise unnoticed. What I saved on price, I largely gave back on mileage. The difference didn't amount to a Starbucks coffee. I went back to premium. I've used premium for the last couple of fills. I've noticed performance has increased, including acceleration which seems to be smoother with less effort and gas mileage seems to be slightly better. If the extra cost of premium is made-up through better gas mileage then I think I’ll continue to use premium. But it also depends on which station I go to because some sell premium at .40 a gallon more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Here's some info from Cadillac. Keep in mind this is dated 12/04. ******************************************* "Info - Top Tier Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power Performance, Stall Concerns) #04-06-04-047C - (Dec 14, 2004) Top Tier Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) 2005 and Prior All General Motors Passenger Cars and Trucks (U.S. Only) 2005 and All Prior Saturn Vehicles 2003-2005 HUMMER H2 This bulletin is being revised to include additional gasoline brands that currently meet the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards and add Saturn to the Models section. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-047B (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System). A new class of gasoline, called Top Tier Detergent Gasoline, is appearing at retail stations of some fuel marketers. This gasoline meets detergency standards developed by four automotive companies. A description of the concept and benefits of Top Tier is provided in the following question and answer section. Gasoline Brands That Currently Meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards As of December 8, 2004, the following gasoline brands meet the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards: • Chevron Chevron has markets in 29 states in the West, Southwest and South, as well as in Alaska and Hawaii. ALL grades of Chevron with Techron gasoline meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards. • QuikTrip (not to be confused with Kwik Trip) QuikTrip operates convenience stores and travel centers in a number of metropolitan areas: • Tulsa, OK • Springfield, MO • Kansas City, MO and Kansas City, KS • Wichita, KS • Des Moines, IA • Omaha, NE • St. Louis, MO and St. Louis, IL • Atlanta, GA • Dallas-Ft. Worth, TX • Phoenix, AZ • Bartlesville, OK • Miami, OK • Vinita, OK • Columbia, MO • Conoco has over 4,000 stations located in 33 states. • Phillips 66 has locations in 32 states across the nation. • 76 has over 2,700 stations located throughout the country. • Shell Shell Oil Products has a network of nearly 7,000 branded gasoline stations in the Western United States. Shell Oil Company markets branded products through more than 10,000 stations in the Eastern and Southern United States. • Entec Stations offer gasoline through stations located in the greater Montgomery, Alabama area. What is Top Tier Detergent Gasoline? Top Tier Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by four automotive companies that exceed the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA. Where Can Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Be Purchased? The Top Tier program began on May 3, 2004. Some fuel marketers have already joined and have introduced Top Tier Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the Top Tier standards. Who developed Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards? Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by four automotive companies: BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota. Why was Top Tier Detergent Gasoline developed? Top Tier Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. The EPA requires that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In order to meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required by the EPA. Also, Top Tier was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product. Why did the four automotive companies join together to develop Top Tier? All four corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency is an issue of concern to several automotive companies. What are the benefits of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline? Top Tier Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and performance and reduced emissions. Also, use of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns. Who should use Top Tier Detergent Gasoline? All vehicles will benefit from using Top Tier Detergent Gasoline over gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Those vehicles that have experienced deposit related concerns may especially benefit from use of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline." ********************************* Take a wild guess what goes in my car . . . . . Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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