03 Seville shutting off?

[boricua3131]

How is everyone doing?

My car has been shutting off on me lately for no reason that I know of. I could come to a stop and lose total idle.......which has happened 6 times in the past week. I have yet to take it to the dealer due to a lack of time on my part.

Before I do take it, does anyone know why it'll just do this out of the blue?

No codes

No check engine light

Not cheap gas

What do you think?

[jhall]

OK,

Did you try to pull any codes from the on-board system, or are you saying that nothing came up on the dashboard when the stall occurred?

There could be many reasons for the stall - anything from a bad ground, to a clogged fuel filter to a failing crank sensor.

There's got to be some diagnostic codes stored in the computer if its a hardware failure of some type.

Let us know.

[thu]

I had this happen to me about two months ago. I had a series of codes, but no Check Engine light.

Dealer replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensors.

Tell me....other than the dead engine, did the instrument cluster go completely dark, too?

[Ranger]

Even though it did not set a DTC (which it should have) my money is on the CPS (Crank Shaft Position Sensors).

[boricua3131]

I am fairly new to the "check codes" thing. Nothing shows on the dash, but I am not sure about checking the computer itself. ....Instrument cluster did not darken as well.

I have noticed some engine shake during idle in the morning before any of this happened....and once the car shuts off, you have to crank pretty hard to start it again..sometimes twice .

Crankshaft Position Sensor sounds about right. I still have warranty, but not original, so I was just tryn to get some insight on what to expect to hear from the dealer.

Thanks guys, I will keep you posted on what's going on.

Exactly what do you need to check the codes yourself??

[Cadillac Jim]

http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html

[boricua3131]

http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html

Thanks Jim,

Just today, the "service engine light" came on. I read Jims' reply and reset all the codes. Service engine light is no longer on, and the car has yet to shut off as it was. Why? I do not know... I am sure one of you will provide insight to this.

Being my first time playing with codes, I was unable to write down what numbers actually popped up for this issue. Is there a way to check the history of all past codes?

Other than that, I just want to say thanks..... let's see if I can save myself a trip to the dealer

[thu]

My money is also on the CPSes

[JimD]

....

Being my first time playing with codes, I was unable to write down what numbers actually popped up for this issue. Is there a way to check the history of all past codes?

Other than that, I just want to say thanks..... let's see if I can save myself a trip to the dealer

If you cleared all codes, the RAM has been flushed. You can run the code display program as many times as necessary to write down all the codes before you answer "YES" to "ALL CLEAR CODES?". Read through the instructions several times and practise with the buttons.

[OynxSTS]

CRANK SENSORS!

Very Common and KNOWN problem with ALL 00 - early 03 Northstars. If the car is under warranty take it to the dealer and have them fix it. Make sure they replace BOTH sensors. Sometimes the Computer will sense one of them failing, sometimes not... When one fails the car will stall and if you sit there for 30 seconds (or so) the computer will eventually notice and will set a code...and the check engine light (either A senor or B sensor failure). The problem is that the computer uses one sensor to test the other... Since one is bad, this is the one time that the computer will struggle to figure out which one is bad.

The solution, replace them both...

There are a couple of TSBs on this:

Service VME - 4.6L ( L37, LD8 ) Northstar Engine Crank Sensors - kw DTC MIL stall #PI01478 - (Oct 30, 2003)

Service VME - 4.6L (L37, LD8) Northstar Engine Crank Sensors

.

When servicing the vehicle with the VIN you entered, the following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms.

SERVICE VME

This service VME is to give you a heads up on an emerging parts concern. It concerns FWD Northstar crank sensors on 2000 to 2003 vehicles. As you may have noticed, the replacement parts for these vehicles have different part numbers and look slightly different. This difference is because a different, higher quality supplier is manufacturing these sensors. The new supplier of crank sensors started supplying production at the start of the 04-model year as well as supplying SPO with service parts in September.

The new supplier will periodically be challenged to keep up with the demand of production schedules and service orders. I know that in the past, in an effort to improve customer satisfaction, both crank sensors were replaced at the same time. To help relieve the service parts demand, I am requesting that only the crank sensor that has been diagnoses as having a fault be replaced. By replacing only the inoperative sensor the demand for parts will be reduced and we can take care of all our customers.

The supplier is working with us to deliver the increased orders that SPO has requested and should be able to fulfill these orders by January. I know if we all work together we can assure that our customers get the repairs necessary to keep them enjoying their vehicles. Thank you all for you help with this temporary situation. This is Ron Caponey Northstar Brand quality manager.

.

Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance. This diagnostic approach was developed for the vehicle with the VIN you entered and should not be automatically be used for other vehicles with similar symptoms.

Models:

(00, 01, 02, 03 Cadillac Seville 4.6L (LD8, L37) Engine) and (00, 01, 02, 03 Cadillac Deville 4.6L (L37, LD8 Engine)

And this one:

00-03 Cadillac EB KB 4.6L LD8 L37 Engine Northstar Updated Crankshaft Sensors - kw DTC MIL driveability #PIP3036 - (Jun 29, 2004)

00-03 Cadillac EB KB 4.6L LD8 L37 Engine Northstar Updated Crankshaft Sensors

.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms in the PI.

Condition/Concern:

00-03 Cadillac EB KB 4.6L (LD8) (L37) Engine Northstar updated Crankshaft Sensors .

Recommendation/Instructions:

The engine assembly part numbers listed below have the updated crank sensor installed in them as of March 23rd, 2004. All stock within GMSPO warehousing system (listed part number of engine assemblies) as of March 23rd have the updated sensors. The new cranks sensor part numbers are:

.

12575481- UPPER-(GRAY IN COLOR)

12575482-LOWER-(BLACK IN COLOR)

.

88894249-LD8-2000 MY-MODELS: EA, KD, KE, KS

88894250-L37-2000 MY-MODELS: EA, KD, KF, KY

88894238-L47-2001 and 2002 MY-MODELS: GA

88894239-L37-2001 and 2002 MY- MODELS: EA, KF, KY, KD

88894240-LD8-2001 and 2002 MY- MODELS: EA, KD, KE, KS

88984253-L37-2003 MY-MODEL: KA

88984254-LD8-2003 MY-MODEL: KA

88984255-L47-2003 MY-MODEL: GA

.

EA: ELDORADO

GA: AURORA

KD: DEVILLE

KE: DEVILLE D’ ELEGANCE

KF: CONCOURS (DEVILLE)

KS: SEVILLE SLS

KY: SEVILLE STS

.

Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance.

Models:

((2000 CADILLAC DEVILLE 4.6L (LD8) ENGINE) and (2001 CADILLAC DEVILLE 4.6L (LD8) ENGINE) and (2002 CADILLAC DEVILLE 4.6L (LD8) ENGINE) and (2003 CADILLAC DEVILLE 4.6L (LD8) ENGINE) and (2000 CADILLAC ELDORADO 4.6L (LD8, L37) ENGINE) and (2001 CADILLAC ELDORADO 4.6L (LD8, L37) ENGINE) and (2002 CADILLAC ELDORADO 4.6L (LD8, L37) ENGINE) and (2000 CADILLAC SEVILLE 4.6L (LD8, L37) ENGINE) and (2001 CADILLAC SEVILLE 4.6L (LD8, L37) ENGINE) and (2002 CADILLAC SEVILLE 4.6L (LD8, L37) ENGINE) and (2003 CADILLAC SEVILLE 4.6L (LD8, L37) ENGINE) )

and one more:

Product Emission 99085 - Crankshaft Position Sensor Failures #99085 - (Jan 26, 2000)

99085 -- Crankshaft Position Sensor Failures

Certain 2000 Cadillac Eldorado and Seville

General Motors has decided to conduct a Voluntary Emission Campaign involving certain 2000 Cadillac Eldorado and Seville model vehicles equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8-VIN Code Y or RPO L37-VIN Code 9) engine. The crankshaft position sensors in these vehicles may fail and cause an intermittent engine chuggle, stall or possible long starting crank time and/or a no start condition, as well as illumination of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL). These conditions may be caused by a cracked solder joint at a resistor in the sensors.

To correct this condition, dealers are to replace both crankshaft position sensors.

Vehicles Involved

Involved are certain 2000 Cadillac Eldorado and Seville model vehicles equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8-VIN Code Y or RPO L37-VIN Code 9) and built within the following VIN breakpoints:

Year

Division

Model

Plant

From

Through

2000

Cadillac

Eldorado

Hamtramck

YU101752

YU177716

2000

Cadillac

Seville

Hamtramck

YU102055

YU190443

Important

Dealers should confirm vehicle eligibility through VISS (Vehicle Information Service System) prior to beginning campaign repairs. [Not all vehicles within the above breakpoints may be involved]

Involved vehicles have been identified by Vehicle Identification Number. Computer listings containing the complete Vehicle Identification Number, customer name and address data have been prepared, and are being furnished to involved dealers with the campaign bulletin. The customer name and address data furnished will enable dealers to follow-up with customers involved in this campaign. Any dealer not receiving a computer listing with the campaign bulletin has no involved vehicles currently assigned.

These dealer listings may contain customer names and addresses obtained from State Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any other purpose is a violation of law in several states. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this listing to the follow-up necessary to complete this campaign.

Customer Notification

Customers will be notified of this campaign on their vehicles by General Motors (see copy of typical customer letter included with this bulletin - actual divisional letter may vary slightly).

In order to ensure full protection under the emission warranty, and the right to participate in future recalls, the customer notification letter recommends that customers have their vehicles serviced as soon as possible. It also advises that failure to do so could legally be determined to be lack of proper maintenance. The vehicle may fail a state or local emission inspection test if the recall work is not completed.

Dealer Campaign Responsibility

All unsold new vehicles in dealers' possession and subject to this campaign MUST be held and inspected/repaired per the service procedure of this campaign bulletin BEFORE customers take possession of these vehicles.

Dealers are to service all vehicles subject to this campaign at no charge to customers, regardless of mileage, age of vehicle, or ownership, from this time forward.

Customers who have recently purchased vehicles sold from your vehicle inventory, and for which there is no customer information indicated on the dealer listing, are to be contacted by the dealer. Arrangements are to be made to make the required correction according to the instructions contained in this bulletin. This could be done by mailing to such customers a copy of the customer letter accompanying this bulletin. Campaign follow-up cards should not be used for this purpose, since the customer may not as yet have received the notification letter.

In summary, whenever a vehicle subject to this campaign enters your vehicle inventory, or is in your dealership for service in the future, please take the steps necessary to be sure the campaign correction has been made before selling or releasing the vehicle.

When a California emissions campaign is completed by a GM dealer, the dealer must provide the vehicle owner a "Proof Of Correction Certificate" which the owner may need to present to the California Department Of Motor Vehicles (DMV) when renewing their vehicle registration. Without this correction certificate, the owner may be unable to renew their vehicle registration.

Additional Certificates can be obtained, at no charge, from Dealer Support Materials by calling 1-888-414-6322 (Monday-Friday, 8:00 am to 5:00 pm EST). Ask for GM Item Number 1825 when ordering.

GM should recall and fix ALL of these engines... They will all fail, usually right after the factory warranty expires... The good news is that this is a DYI project and the parts are <$100

By my count GM has sourced and used no fewer then three different crack sensors from three different suppliers... The last set are stamped Made In JAPAN and appear to be much stronger and better made then the Earlier (Made in Mexico) units. As the plastic sensor expands and contracts it pulls apart the internal electronics... and they intermittently fail...

[boricua3131]

Awesome information! Thanks..... Car will be going to the dealer Monday morning. It is acting up again...and the "check engine light" has come on. Code PO385 ( crankshaft position sensor ) pops up...just like you guys have said.

My factory warranty expired on 9-6-06 ..what a shame how this happens right after. My 75k warranty kicks in from here. Too bad i have to pay the deductible on something they should change for free.