rcool217 Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I had a post on here about my car electronics kept cutting off... but because I found a new prob... I needed someone who knows about this... I went and had my battery tested and it said to have it replaced so I did... then it found that the alternator was low on volts (13.2) is this really low for a cadillac... also my battery even though new was running the same volts as the old one... (11.8(with lights on)- 13.2)... is this low... should I replace my alternator? if it is bad... with running it 20 miles a day how long will it take to go out? also I would like to do it myself... I love to do everything myself... is this extremely hard... can I get it done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 13.2 is low.. You're going to probably have to do the alt some day so now is as good of a time as any.. Try cleaning the connections first MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 ... then it found that the alternator was low on volts (13.2) is this really low for a cadillac... also my battery even though new was running the same volts as the old one... (11.8(with lights on)- 13.2)... is this low... should I replace my alternator? if it is bad... with running it 20 miles a day how long will it take to go out? also I would like to do it myself... I love to do everything myself... is this extremely hard... can I get it done? 11.8 volts is what you should expect to see on the DIC without the engine running. 13.2 volts is NOT low for a Cadillac or any other vehicle. That is "normal" daytime running voltage absent an unusually high accessory load. With a battery in good condition you should be able to start the vehicle and see about 13.4-13.9 on the DIC and then watch it slowly come down to 13.2 or so. You might continue to see as much as 13.8 with a lot of accessories online, but that would be unusual. If you are seeing 11.8 volts with the headlights on and the engine running, you are NOT charging. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I am a little confused, who tested your battery? I usually run 13.2 volts in warm weather and about 13.8 or 13.8 in cold weather. You will tend to run a TAD less than 12 volts at idle, but NOT when the engine RPM is picked up. Something sounds wrong here. Can you explain who said this? And who said 'for a Cadillac".... If I am in traffic with the AC on, the lights on, the wipers on, my battery charging will sometimes drop below 12 volts, but as soon as the RPM picks up, its UP.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I don't like 13.2v.. at 1500rpm I like to be around 14v MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I don't like 13.2v.. at 1500rpm I like to be around 14v I don't know that anyone here mentioned ANY rpm, but I'm a fan of 13.2 volts. Period. Aproaching 14 volts you begin to "cook" your battery. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I would be surprised if you had 14 volts charging now. Typically you will get a higher charging rate right after you start the car, summer 13.6-13.7, winter 13.9-14.1... then it drops as the battery becomes charged, to summer 13.2 and winter 13.6 or so. I am very surprised that you have sustained high charging rates in warmer months, check again after a short drive at highway speeds Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I routinely see 14+ volts (especially when engine is cold and/or outside temperatures are cold), but usually volts are anywhere from 12.3 (at idle with a heavy load such as headlights, radio and heater on) to about 13.3 to 5, particularly when engine is at normal operating temp. Rarely do I see volts in the 12 range when driving. The 12 range tends to be more when at idle with something on. Once I step on the gas volts rebound into the 13 or even to the 14 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 13.9 in my older Seville, 13.6 or so in my STS MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I routinely see 14+ volts That's surprising! Are you due for a new battery? Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreezn Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I don't like 13.2v.. at 1500rpm I like to be around 14v I don't know that anyone here mentioned ANY rpm, but I'm a fan of 13.2 volts. Period. Aproaching 14 volts you begin to "cook" your battery. Regards, Warren My 94 ETC with Northstar has for several years been below average on output voltage, this with the 140 amp alternator provided with the front windshield electric defrost. I see 14 volts at start up but as the engine compartment heats up, on a hot Summer day, the voltage will decrease to about 12.8, with the same load. New or old battery, doesn't seem to have any effect. the voltage regulator appears to have a heat sensitive feature that reduces the alternator output in hotter weather. A negative coeficient thermister comes to mind. Maybe a designed in feature to protect the life of the alternator. i tried to get it fixed at the dealer, under warranty, but they said it was normal. Just one man's experience, Jim in Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 the voltage regulator appears to have a heat sensitive feature that reduces the alternator output in hotter weather. A negative coeficient thermister comes to mind. Maybe a designed in feature to protect the life of the alternator. i tried to get it fixed at the dealer, under warranty, but they said it was normal. Just one man's experience, Negative (forgive the pun). It is not temperature sensitive. There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Warren, I do see higher charging rates in cold weather. But if you are talking about why the charging rate drops, as you said, its not because it gets warmer or hot, it drops because the battery is not discharged or its charged. A discharged battery draws more current, if I am not mistaken...?!?! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I routinely see 14+ volts That's surprising! Are you due for a new battery? Regards, Warren Warren, My battery is about 1 ½ years old. I bought it at Wal-Mart. It’s an EverStart Max with 875 cold cranking amps. For a $55 battery I can't complain. My alternator is about 2 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunted Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I am a little confused, who tested your battery? I usually run 13.2 volts in warm weather and about 13.8 or 13.8 in cold weather. You will tend to run a TAD less than 12 volts at idle, but NOT when the engine RPM is picked up. Something sounds wrong here. Can you explain who said this? And who said 'for a Cadillac".... If I am in traffic with the AC on, the lights on, the wipers on, my battery charging will sometimes drop below 12 volts, but as soon as the RPM picks up, its UP.... Ah that's great to hear, I thought I was one of few that saw less than 12 at times, and that is always with idle/traffic as well. I went to get my electrical system checked and these were the results, so i'm guessing this is normal behavior. Battery Volts - 12.78 Batter Amps - 650 Charging system volts - 14.78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Warren, I do see higher charging rates in cold weather. But if you are talking about why the charging rate drops, as you said, its not because it gets warmer or hot, it drops because the battery is not discharged or its charged. A discharged battery draws more current, if I am not mistaken...?!?! Mike, I'm not entirely sure what you might mean by higher charging rates. If we're talking about generator output, I'd accept that voltage is an indirect measure of charging "rate." Of course, we are talking about CURRENT, not voltage, where charging is concerned. That is why voltage is only an indirect measurement. Upon startup a battery suffers a huge depletion of energy. That energy must be replaced as soon as possible, and the generator is the one to do it. It dumps as much current as possible into the battery cells as fast as it can. The automotive designers provided for this. During cold weather starts, even more energy is drawn from the battery than during warm weather starts. Not surprisingly, it reaches a more discharged state. More charging (current) is required. It takes longer for the DIC indicated battery voltage to return to "normal." To repeat: battery voltage is only an *indirect* measure of charge. And an unreliable one at that. It does NOT describe the total charge contained in the battery; a dead battery might read 11.8 volts on a multimeter, but be unable to light a brake lamp bulb. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 By higher charging rates I am talking about the rate we see on our ammeters on our cars, I assume you have one, I think they all do. When I first start my car, I see a high rate, IE 14.2 for a few minutes then it drops to a normal rate of charge as time goes on. I do believe we are talking about the same thing. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 By higher charging rates I am talking about the rate we see on our ammeters on our cars, I assume you have one, I think they all do. When I first start my car, I see a high rate, IE 14.2 for a few minutes then it drops to a normal rate of charge as time goes on. I do believe we are talking about the same thing. Probably because of warm up mode MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 By higher charging rates I am talking about the rate we see on our ammeters on our cars, I assume you have one, I think they all do.... I have not seen an ammeter in a GM automobile (as OEM equipment) in the last 20+ years. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 True, I mis-spoke, I am speaking about the volt meter in the car that shows the charging volts, since this goes negative at times where the draw is more than the output of the alternator, thereby showing a discharging condition, in my mind I associate it with the OLD ammeters where the needle showed charge and discharge conditions of the charging system.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Mike, I have no idea how voltage is displayed on your '96 Deville; but I doubt that your OEM voltmeter will give you a 'negative' reading. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 OK, let me clarify myself again, by negative, I mean, less than 12 volts, which I equate to DISCHARGING. I have seen as I mentioned above when a high load is on the vehicle (wipers, lights, heater) in traffic, a charging rate of 11.6 to 11.8, less than 12 volts, that to me, is negative (and represents the left side of an ammeter) and NOT an optimum or advisable situation to be in long term as you might find your battery drained when you try to restart. I am always alert when this situation happens in long term bumper to bumper traffic and tend to shed the load or raise the idle. If the drain continues I believe it can drain the battery and potentially interfere with the ignition coils. While the device in our vehicles is not an ammeter, I believe that it more or less functions as a ammeter providing the same intent. When we were kids, immediately after startup, the ammeter would be far to the right, similar to our high rate of charge on our 'voltmeter' or charging meter of 13.8 to 14.1, as the battery charged the ammeter would more toward the center, as does our 'voltmeter' or charging meter at say 13.1 or 13.2, in the old daze when you had a charging problem the ammeter would swing LEFT, NEGATIVE or (-), as does our 'voltmeter' or charging meter when it shows 11.6 to 11.8 under heavy load. Needless to say, if our alternators stopped charging that figure would be WAY less than 12 volts, similar to the ammeter showing NEGATIVE.... TO me our 'voltmeter' or charging meter equates to an ammeter... as its measure charging /charge condition NOT straight volts... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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