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Mailbag: Need 2013 FSM to Part Out CTS-V


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I stumbled onto your page through caddyinfo and another site. I’m trying to get my hands on the service manual for a 2013 CTS-V, so I can trace wires. I am considering purchasing the hard copy on Ebay, but would rather not.

I purchased a totaled CTS-V at auction and am in the process of stripping it down to parts. I’m dropping the engine/trans, seat, entertainment and brakes into my 1967 Chevelle. The manuals will be a huge help in tracing down wiring issues, updating for my situation, and getting me to my end goal.

If you have a digital copy of the manuals or if you have a good source for them, I would very much appreciate the help. Thanks in advance!

I have the DVD for GM FSMs for cars and small trucks from the 2002 through the 2011 model years. This would probably be OK for what you are trying to do. I also have the hard copy of the 1997 FSM for the E/K platforms (Seville, Eldorado, Devillle). From that comparison I think that the hard copy would be better for what you are doing; you or others may feel that the DVD is better.

The DVD is copyrighted by GM and is made available for use by the purchaser. I feel comfortable sharing an occasional figure on Caddyinfo to answer a question. I do NOT feel comfortable sharing significant material from the DVD for another to use as a primary resource.

As you note, used FSMs are usually available on eBay at moderate prices. You can get any or all of the manuals from the publisher that GM uses, Helm Inc., here. All of them are priced reasonably except the shop manual DVD, which is $400 and covers all years from 1998 through 2014, and probably all cars and small trucks. The paper manual is $250. You will pobably be interested in the entertainment system manual and the nav manual, which are $20 each.

Come back here and let us know how things work out with the 1967 Chevelle. Pictures are particularly welcome. I'm interested in what you do with the brakes and suspension to make the car drivable with 556+ hp. I would consider using the wheels, tires and brakes from the CTS-V and looking at major suspension upgrades, particularly in the rear.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Jim – Thanks so much for the detailed response. I actually have all the manuals that come with the car originally, they were luckily in the glove box. I’m sure I can find all the wiring information for the engine/trans on LS1tech.com or other sites. Would it be possible for you to send the schematic for the vehicle wiring, the 40’ long bundle of wires that sprawl all over the car?

I’m also trying to pull the dash as an entire module, as it was put in by the factory. I removed 10 bolts from around the exterior of the module, but there is still something holding it into the car. Is there a page you could send me that shows how to remove or install the dash as an entire module?

Thanks for the very quick response and all the help, it is much appreciated!

Dan

P.S. I am part of a Chevelle club, which is where I'm currently posting status and info about the tear down. Feel free to check it out, it's fun to see the destruction. I'll try to upload some pictures to this site too, so others can enjoy.

TCNW -> Major Builds & Projects -> Project Pegasus - LSA/T56 Donor for the '67

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There is no single schematic. The DVD provides schematics of different portions of the system, such as Power Distribution, Ground Distribution, and different switch, relay, and fuse power distributions, and different areas of the car such as ignition, transmission, external lighting (front), external lighting (rear), etc. There are scores of files. If you need a complete schematic of the car, you will do better with the FSM.

I believe that the assembly you are removing is the Instrument Panel Carrier, which is the bare dashboard. If you are just trying to remove the instruments, let me know.

The 2012 FSM (yes, my DVD covers the 2012 model year!) says to remove lots of things, including the clutch pedal assembly, first. Then, there are 8 screws to the HVAC assembly, two Instrument Panel to Body screws, then 8 Instrument Panel to Body nuts that apparently screw on to studs that are part of the Instrument Panel Carrier, and 4 Brake Pedal to Cowl nuts.

I don't think trying to be your manual resource with online postings is viable. You will need the FSM to maintain your chimera, at least the CTS-V part of it.

Inquiring minds will want to know what you are going to do for the PCM and other modules. The radio module will require the DIM to work, and a lot of controls work through the car's network. For example, on my 1997 Eldorado, the fog/running lights switch operated a signal for the IPM/DIM, which sent a signal to the PZM (BCM in later models), which grounded a coil on a relay that supplied power to the fog/running lights. A 12 Volt line from the running lights then went back to the dashboard to power a grain-of-wheat bulb or LED above the switch to indicate that the fog/running lights were on.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Thanks again for the info. I think you’re dead on that I should really just pick up the FSM to guide me, just get it over with. If I’m really going to incorporate as many of the CTS-V parts as I want to, I will need it.

What I was talking about removing is in fact the Instrument Panel Carrier. I was hoping/thinking I could remove the entire assembly as a unit, instead of pulling pieces off chunk by chunk. I’ll follow your description and just keep digging deeper and deeper into the assembly until it is all gone.

As far as processors and controllers go, in buying the entire car, I have everything. The ECU for the engine swap is very well documented, just a matter of effort and having tuning done. Depending on what all I end up trying to integrate from the car, I’ll just use the sensors, controllers, wires, etc that I have off of the CTS-V. When it comes down to doing the work, there will be a ton of forum conversation, as I fight though the various challenges.

I forgot to mention about the Chevelle upgrades to allow for safety with that engine/trans. I already have C6 rubber on the car, though it has only seen the road once with that. I am in the process of upgrading the front suspension and steering, but will wait for power steering until I do the engine swap. The brakes will be straight off of the CTS-V, booster and all. The rear dif and suspension pieces will be upgraded when I perform the swap. I likely won’t be swapping the engine into the car for 1-2 years, due to other family/life constraints. I’ll obviously be fixing things as they break, from that power, once it’s in.

For some reason my photobucket isn't working, so can't load pictures right now.

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  • 3 weeks later...

How is it going?

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Car is stripped down to bones and awaiting selling off of parts. As soon as I started pulling the engine out, I found out that some significant life changes are coming in ~9 months, so will likely be selling the engine to make way for higher priorities. I may try this again in the future, but for now it was just a great learning experience.

FYI - the entire dash can be removed as a single unit, counter to what the book said. There are I think 6 major bolts holding the dash frame. There there's a myriad of little bolts here and there. On the engine side you have to remove the brake and clutch pieces, then separate that glued on section from the firewall. Remove the steering column and associated wires, and it all comes out.

I of course wasn't able to do this, because I had to dig deeper and deeper to figure out how to get it out, but it can be done.

Dan

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You really need the FSM. The pages and hyperlinks on my DVD on the dash are vast, just for the figures. The pages on removing things have lines like (see <hyperlink to another FSM page>) that do things like find the "myriad of little bolts here and there."

With the FSM, you may have to learn your way around it to find the links. With the DVD, you just click. You may find it easier to have a Xerox of a FSM page than a laptop with you when you're working.

But, since you are putting off the project, it's all moot, I suppose.

If you sell the engine, you will need the transmission, ECM, and TCM with it. I would try to sell the whole car as a unit. It's possible a racer will want only the motor but most of those have their own sources of parts, not whole production motors.

Perhaps you might consider a middle name for the significant life change as something like "Rootes?"

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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  • 1 month later...

Still at it, selling off parts here and there, working to replace broken parts that I am keeping.

I have a couple favors and/or questions. Would it be possible to get a wiring schematic for the Recaro seats, just the plug. I am considering using these, just need to supply power and ground, since all controls are internal to the seats.

2nd. Is there any way you or anyone you know would be willing to swap my gauge cluster into a CTS-V to verify what mileage is on the engine? I contacted the dealership, but they can't do anything unless it is actually installed in a car. I am willing to ship it to wherever is needed. I just don't know how to figure out what mileage was on the car. Anything you can do to help on this would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks again for your help!

Dan

509-710-4200

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I don't have time before work but will check out the wiring of the Recaro seats when I get home.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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danmay21

that is one hell of a requst: 2nd. Is there any way you or anyone you know would be willing to swap my gauge cluster into a CTS-V to verify what mileage is on the engine? I contacted the dealership, but they can't do anything unless it is actually installed in a car. I am willing to ship it to wherever is needed. I just don't know how to figure out what mileage was on the car. Anything you can do to help on this would be GREATLY appreciated.

I think you would owe your second born to anyone willing to do that. :glare:

Is that a simple job? I can't imagine it is anything close to simple.

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I would trade all of my children for that, being that I don't currently have any :) (4.5 months away from #1 though).

I honestly don't think it's all that complicated of a job, if the mileage is stored in the gauge cluster itself. To R&R the cluster, you only need to remove 3-4 screws, if I remember correctly from when I removed it. The trim at the windshield needs to be removed, which is held by clips. There is a single screw holding the dash piece that covers the gauge, and 2-3 screws holding the cluster in place, that's it, that's all.

I don't think this sounds all that complicated, but I'm an optimist.....

Dan

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Get the VIN and use a CarFAX.

I forgot last night. I'll get the Recaro schematic now.

There are six schemtics, two of which don't apply to the V. This is the one I think you need. You MUST have the power seat module with it. There are separate schematics for the passenger seat. If you need another, let me know.

2912_CTS_Power_Seats.png

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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