now timeserting and head gasketing...

[motor_car]

Hi folk, i haven't posted here for a while. Life in the way...

hi Bruce, hi guys, old and new.

Well, my reason to re-surface is that, as the title says, i am in the process of replacing head gaskets with the Northstar in the car.

My internal leak sprung at the RH bank (firewall) and it started slowly, last January, with slight temp increase under heavy acceleration. I keept nursing it for 3 months when it became worse, bubbling in the coolant even at grandpa style driving. I never overheated.

Tools (no hoist, no crane, not even an overhead beam), space and no helper around, plus low-low budget made me take up the challenge of growing extra elbows mid-forearms to reach the unreachable...

So far i can proudly state that all bolts, even the exhaust crossover ones came undone with no blood but a considerable amount of cursing (works better than loquid wrench).

I have, though, a large variety of drives, joints, extensions etc in 1/4, 1/2 and 3/8 to keep myself busy...

Thanks to barry94 for his posts, helped me a lot, and i talk moral help, too. Thanks.

So far i decided to NOT:

separate the exhaust collectors (too many bolts and need of new gaskets, a few $ saved here)

remove harm balancer and timing cover (again, less bolts, pullers etc, gaskets)

hoist the car ( it's on wheels) while working on top (hard to reach deep in over the fender or front)

not touch the AC plumbing (no recharging req'd afterwards, less work)

These decisions made sense so far as far as time and effort saving. I am NOT saying that this is the easy way, no. By all means, if you can remove the engine, go ahead...It is MUCH better to do the job with the engine or whole powertrain out, especially if you have a hoist...but i don't.

On the flip side i had a lot of fun so far and until it's all back together I never say never..

I have a timesert kit and I hope to get away with replacing with new parts only: head gaskets, head bolts and knock sensor (older issue with that).

Last night the LH head (front of car) came off as planned...this is the point when things start to happen in earnest..

Lots of pictures, only if i could figure how to post them here.

Any help with that?

Thanks

[Barry94]

Sounds like you are getting along well with the job.

"growing extra elbows mid-forearms to reach the unreachable" .

That's a great description. Any one who attempts a head gasket removal with the enging in the car will really appreciate that comment.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Barry

[JIMDTS]

Good You can do the job yourself On thing that I seen done and I thought is REAL clever with the engine in the car the guy completely covered the block real neatly across the pistons bores and head bolt holes bascially where the head sits just covered it solid with 2 in masking tape then drilled the holes for the time serts it sure keeps the metal out of the cyl. bore a lot less cleaning I thought that was very clever and still do..It beats stuffing rags in them..

Good Luck

Jim

[motor_car]

Thanks barry. Thanks Jim, I'll use masking tape, great tip..

I'll attempt to attach a pix, see if it works...

[motor_car]

And the head..

[JIMDTS]

Nice pix

I forgot to mention the guy tapped the holes and put in the timeserts with the tape still on I bet it sure made his cleanup easier you will get a lot of metal shavings from the drilling If I was to do one I sure would tape it up..I have also seen them done with the engine out this way proir to the final tear dowm and clean up it sure makes it easier to clean up..

Good Luck

Jim

[Dloch]

I believe that you will still need to remove the harmonic balancer and front cover to re-time the valve train. When you remove the cam chains the the chain guides will extend. The only way I know to compress them is to flip the latch to release the rachet and push them in and then insert a pin to hold them retracted until the chain is back on again, then you remove the pin to allow them to extend again. Unless you are/were using the tool to keep them retracted when you removed the chain.

[motor_car]

You are correct about the tensioner. I only discovered it when I removed the tobbogan guide, and it was extended...oops! but i figured how to work the latch from the top. The spring force in the tensioner is quite weak.

The timing was not disturbed, in the top pix you can see the bungee cord holding the chain stretched and the camshaft sprockets wired to the chain...

But, i never say never....i have my har-bal puller handy if needed.

[growe3]

Regarding the cam timing:

It appears from the picture that you did not set the engine at #1 TDC before removing the head, I do not think you will be able to get the cams retimed without removing the front cover. The slightest contact with a piston will bend the small valves very easily.

The cam chain tensioners are not easy (maybe impossible) to release without having the front cover off. The tensioners are spring and hydraulic loaded. To release and compress one, you must hold the release tab and then compress the tensioner. Now get the chain wrapped around the cams, keeping them in time (I don't know how as you removed the head, with the cams somwhere between timing marks), allowing for cam rotation as the tension load is reapplied……etc.

Trying to save effort by not removing the front cover, will more than likely be a very costly mistake.

I would urge you to remove the front cover and make sure the cams get properly retimed.

-George

[motor_car]

Thanks for the advice on timing, growe3. To avoid the nightmare you mention I locked the crank and the camshafts before removing the sprockets off the camshafts. The camshafts are locked by snugging a bearing cap over a piece of paper. If nothing moves nothing needs retiming. That is the reason I didn't bother to bring #1 to TDC. The paint marks and wiring of the chains are just for backup.

The tensioners can be accessed from the top with the heads off. I have still to find a way to hold them compressed when i reassembling without using the golf tee. A loop of twine may work.

Thanks a lot for the (in)sanity check

Finally there, i can start timeserting now. Well, cleaning and masking first, but I'm there.

The 6 M11 bolts at the middle of the RH head were not as tight as the others, i guess they had pulled the threads. The centre pair came out with aluminum on them. The LH head bolts were fine.

Barry94, you mentioned using a 90deg air drive to turn the reamer and tap. I plan to buy a 3/8 drive, did you use some sort of female-female 3/8 adaptor?

Thanks

emil

[motor_car]

and the cyls

[motor_car]

who said that there's no room in the engine compartment?

[Barry94]

Barry94, you mentioned using a 90deg air drive to turn the reamer and tap. I plan to buy a 3/8 drive, did you use some sort of female-female 3/8 adaptor?

Hi,

I used a 3/8 drive socket that fit over the end, I don't remember what size. It wasn't a great fit, however it got the job done. A female-female adaptor would be great, however I've never seen one.

While looking at your engine pictures, I remembered that the head alignment dowels need to be removed from the block.

Mine were a bear to get out.

Vice grips just wouldn't get them out.

I finally used a piece of pipe on the inside the dowel (to prevent collapse), and used a pipe flaring tool to clamp over the dowel and then pried up on the tool and they came out. (Note.... protect the block deck surface while prying)

As for keeping things clean while drilling etc., I used an old bed sheet with a hole in it, and moved it from cyl to cyl as required.

Sounds like you have things under control.

Good luck

Barry

[motor_car]

Thanks Barry.

Great tip with the bedsheet.

I step/sit/squat on top of the block while working close to the firewall. Makes it so much easier on my bones.

I am currently scraping the gasket residuu off the block face, with the vacuum hose in one hand and the scraper in the other. Lots'a fun.

Looking forward to pulling the dowels..

I tracked the parcel with the new gaskets and bolts. It is progressing. Yesterday it moved from Jamaica NY to Paris NJ. By foot courier probably..

One good thing coolant in the cylinders did is that it losened and removed almost all carbon deposits. What's left can be practically wiped away with engine degreaser. In the cyls with no signs of coolant intrusion the carbon is rock hard.

In one cyl in the LH bank there are clear marks of the valves hitting the carbon buildup. Talk about cold carbon rap..

so far so good.

thanks for advice and suggestions..

emil

[motor_car]

ok, back to timeserting.

not for the faint of heart. turning that reamer into the hole (especially first hole..) takes some guts. not very reassuring when it jams either. a broken reamer equals a new engine 8=)

it works as seen on tv, though. other than high bolld pressure, no problem so far (16 holes to go)

here is a pix of how i covered the block

cheers

[motor_car]

done. and it runs!

first time it started it freaked me out because it was smoking like there's no tomorrow. but after some driving around the block it came to senses.

no leaks so far, first time since i owned the car that it doesn't smell like antifreeze (it had external seepage at the corners of the heads, now fixed).

the engineers did a great job designing the timesert set, awesome.

was timeserting necessary? you bet! at least three holes were so bad that the timesert guide plate bolts would not hold....

would i do it again with the engine in car? for sure. the hardest things to undo and put back together are around the engine (hoses, exhaust, harness etc). once all stuff is removed the engine compartment was large enough for me and the engine.

Here is a pix of how i drove the reamer in the "worst" access hole.

gone for a ride

cheers

[JIMDTS]

motor_car

Good job I agree the timsert kit is a nice setup..

Cheers

Jim

[jhall]

motor car,

Congrats on getting it done....and running.

Gives me some faith that I might get mine to start after I get the wiring harness back in place and fill it up fill fluids.

[Barry94]

Good job !

Seeing that air ratchet brought back memories.

I also agree that the Timesert Kit/Procedure is a very slick piece of engineering.

You now should be able to enjoy the results of your work for many years.

Barry

[motor_car]

Yep, great to ride the N* again. Sooo different from the '88 Seville, in road manners i mean. In few words: the Seville, you have to DRIVE it. The ETC pretty much runs itself.

Don't know how to explain. This all in spite of the fact that the Seville tracks like an arrow, I had it on the highway for 1.8 miles hands off the wheel... The ETC wouldn't, and still the ETC requires less driver's presence....

The hardest was the digging in phase, when hours and hours were going by and more bolts filling the boxes and cadillac bits&parts filling the garage floor and hanging off everything, and with all those chunks coming out the heads were still miles down in, barely visible...

Plus the fear of bumping into that bolt that may never come out....DIYs know what I mean..

Timeserting and the way back out was more lighthearted and full of expectation.

The only thing left behind is a M6x20mm black little bolt which i can not tell where it came from if my life depended on it. But i doubt anything major will fall off because that tiny little bolt is missing.

I think i used about 50hrs on this job and cost about $200 in parts including new sparkplugs and fluids. Timesert kit on top of that.

The only new engine parts i used were the head gaskets and M11 bolts.

Thanks guys for all your support, i wish you luck in your diy endeavours.

Emil