JLAWS Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Hi all, I am trying to purchase some after market rim for my 98 STS. Unfortunately the rim I want is out of stock till Aug 15th. They are out of pattern size 5x115 but they have 5x114.3 which show up for a Lexus GS 400. The Wheel offset is exactly the same at +40. I just need reassurance 5x114.3 will work. I would just need the right hub ring for that rim. any feed back is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 114.3 is not the same as 115.0. I would not use that pattern. It seems you always have rims for sale...what, do you run them for 1000 miles and get tired of them and buy something else? Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 This issue came up once before on this board, I believe 5 x 114.3mm is the same as 5 x 115mm. Older American specifications were 5 x 4.5", which converts to 5 x 114.3mm. Some wheel manufacturers only list 5 x 114.3mm, and some list both 5 x 114.3mm and 5 x 115mm, but I have been told by one manufatcurer they are the same. The difference is only .011" on a 4.5" bolt circle using countersunk lugnuts, ....believe me they will seat themselves with proper torque. I also wonder how close they actually hold the manufacturing tolerances. Obviously, if the wheel manufacturer lists both options, order the OEM spec. I bet they are the same SKU (part number) if you actually talk to them, they only publish it that way so as not to lose business. Someone responded on this issue and stated it made a difference, but as a mechanical design engineer, I don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 This issue came up once before on this board, I believe 5 x 114.3mm is the same as 5 x 115mm. Older American specifications were 5 x 4.5", which converts to 5 x 114.3mm. Some wheel manufacturers only list 5 x 114.3mm, and some list both 5 x 114.3mm and 5 x 115mm, but I have been told by one manufatcurer they are the same. The difference is only .011" on a 4.5" bolt circle using countersunk lugnuts, ....believe me they will seat themselves with proper torque. I also wonder how close they actually hold the manufacturing tolerances. Obviously, if the wheel manufacturer lists both options, order the OEM spec. I bet they are the same SKU (part number) if you actually talk to them, they only publish it that way so as not to lose business. Someone responded on this issue and stated it made a difference, but as a mechanical design engineer, I don't buy it. Oops, the difference is .027" on 4.5", I still believe it doesn't matter with a countersunk lug and the elasticity of the wheel connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Oops, the difference is .027" on 4.5", I still believe it doesn't matter with a countersunk lug and the elasticity of the wheel connection. I think the very nature of the tapered seat lugs makes this difference (if there is one) significant. The slight difference is measureable, which is why some manufacturers make two different sizes...one as 114.3 and one as 115. If you put the smaller circle on a lug set that's 115mm in diameter, you'll be drawing the lugs inward as you torque the wheel down. Either that, or galling out the tapered seat lug holes. What do you mean, the "elasticity of the wheel connection"? Do you mean to say that it's alright to stretch the aluminum rim to fit the larger (even if only by .027") lug circle? It could be that 114.3" and 115" are the same. But if they were, I don't understand why one manufacturer would produce wheels with different part numbers with the two different diameter lug circles. If they really were the same, they'd save the money on the second jig and just produce the one wheel to "fit" both circles, no? Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLAWS Posted July 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I explained to the rim distributor that the pattern is pretty much the same after doing research but they refuses to sell me the rims. They stated it is unsafe to put on a wheel with an "incorrect" bolt pattern. They left it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I explained to the rim distributor that the pattern is pretty much the same after doing research but they refuses to sell me the rims. They stated it is unsafe to put on a wheel with an "incorrect" bolt pattern. They left it at that. I agree with them. "Pretty much the same" isn't THE SAME. For example, this page... http://www.tyresave.co.uk/fitment.html ...shows different wheels specifically at different bolt patterns. FWD GM cars take 115mm lug circles. Other cars take 114.3mm lug circles. Especially with something as important and possibly as expensive as your wheels and hubs, no way would I take a chance and hope they're the same. I'd wait a month until they had more in stock. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 What do you mean, the "elasticity of the wheel connection"? Do you mean to say that it's alright to stretch the aluminum rim to fit the larger (even if only by .027") lug circle? No, I do not believe you will stretch the aluminum. More than likely you might elastically cause the stud to re-align ever so slightly. All I know is I bought a 5 x 115mm rim and mounted it hub-centrically to a 5 on 4.50" bolt pattern and it has fit fine, balanced fine, run fine, and comes and goes on fine, for the last 5 years. Let your conscience be your guide.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 One more point, it could be some of these manufactures actually slot the lug mounting holes slightly radially to allow for a 114.3 -115 bolt circle, I never considered that, but it might make sense with a hub-centric fit. I have taken my wheels off several times and always inspect them, I have never noticed the "seating" of the lug to look odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardio-doc Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I've put Chrysler 300M wheels which have a bolt pattern of 5x114.3mm on a Cadillac which has a bolt pattern of 5x115mm. I wasn't crazy about the idea but the deal was right for the customer and he really wanted it, knowing there was risk. The risk is that there will be a wobble/resonance because the bolts/lugs won't be centered in the wheel bolt holes. He was satisfied with the ride - we didn't have a wobble. But if you're paying retail/buying new - you really should get the right size. cheers, ~Doc --- Direct Performance on Ebay CaddyInfo.com Cadillac Conversations Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I've put Chrysler 300M wheels which have a bolt pattern of 5x114.3mm on a Cadillac which has a bolt pattern of 5x115mm. Cardio, Do the 1998 & 1999 chrome STS wheels all have the same bolt pattern? Are the rims identical? thank you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardio-doc Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 OEM-chrome 98 STS wheels are the same as OEM-chrome 99 STS wheels. Be sure to verify that the wheel you are considering is OEM-chrome and not chromed aftermarket, which will look a little different. cheers, ~Doc --- Direct Performance on Ebay CaddyInfo.com Cadillac Conversations Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 thank you, Cardio-Doc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen99angel Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 I put on vault estrella chrome wheels on my sts and the boltpattern are 5 X 114,3 I added centerrings to it, so it wont make the wheels go loose and bumble around on higher speeds. Lot of copanies dont have the excat bolt pattern, but ofcourse if you pay them enough, they will costumdrill the holes for you. But to answer the question, the best are to get the correct boltpattern, but they will be hard to find, especially finding wheels you will also like, so just go ahead and get the 114,3MM and then the correct centerrings and you will be fine regards henrik Sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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