Crozier Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Helping my mother in law out with her 1997 Dodge Stratus, 2.4L. It passed Visual and Functional but failed emissions. Here's the info: Barely failed HC, 47 max is 40 (average is 7) Passed CO easily .13 max is .49 (average is .03) Passed NO got 444 max is 730 (average is 50) Not getting any codes from the computer. So not O2's? A new cat installed is around $500. Hopefully there is a cheaper solution. Car was run for about half an hour to the smog center then shut off for 20 mins before test taken. Now for the laughable question.... Do those "emission test passer" fuel additives work? Do they work even a little bit to push my HC count down 7ppm?? I really appreciate the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Here's what will work. Run the car until it only has several gallons of gas in it and put in a gallon of alcohol in the tank then have it retested. The alcohol will lower the HC but raise the NOX a little. Make sure to refill the tank as soon as the test is over because alcohol can be hard on hoses. Retarding the timing will also lower the HC. California Smog stations will only let you retard the timing by 3 degrees from factory spec. Also, changing the plugs and wires could help if they haven't been changed for a long time. High HC often means the engine is missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozier Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Thanks for the advice, Ed. I went ahead and put in new plugs and wires, changed air filter, had it lubed, and added a bottle of "guaranteed to pass" fuel additive. Went in and had it retested and got essential the exact same results as before. (1 part per million higher HC) I thought about adding the alcohol to the gas like Ed suggested. My mother in law nearly had a heart attack so I don't think I'll be able to do that one. I really need some more input on this matter. She's on a very tight fixed income and the $500 that cheap independent shops are quoting to replace the cat is a bit steep for a lousy 8 parts per million failure! Can Oxygen sensors be bad or only work partially without tripping a code? Can this be an EGR problem? I only have a few more days till the car's tags expire. Thanks in advance for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 EGR problem would cause high NOX so this isn't an EGR problem. High HC means it is missing. Setting the timing back a couple of degrees will lower the HC and so will adding the alcohol. Keep in mind that pump gas already contains alcohol (around 10%) so this is nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozier Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Can the timing be adjusted on an OBDII car without some kind of computer interface? Thanks again for the help, Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 I'm not familiar with OBDII cars. Easiest way to pass this car is try the alcohol trick. Let the gas run down to 1 to 2 gallons and add a gallon of alcohol which can be bought at your favorite hardware store such as Home Depot. But the best way is to fix the underlying problem. The way it is, the engine is probably running quite rough and using more gas than it should. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozier Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 So let me see if I understand the idea of adding alcohol. A high HC level is a result of unburned gasoline coming out the tail pipe. An engine will run on alcohol, so by adding a low percentage of alcohol, the HC levels will drop according to the percentage of alcohol added? So if I have to drop my HC level from 47 ppm to 40 ppm, (a 15% drop) that means i have to have add enough alcohol to the tank to have the percentage alcohol increase 15%? Or does burning alcohol have other properties/benefits? Like increasing engine temp or somehow actually cleaning up the emissions? If I do end up going with the alcohol, what am I looking for at the hardware store? What kind of alcohol? Does it come by the gallon or what? Thanks for the assistance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Use the alcohol that's available in the paint/stripping section of the hardware store. It comes in the gallon and is called isopropyl/rubbing alcohol. Yes, the concentration of alcohol and HC levels are inversely proportional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgr7 Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 See if you have a bolt on CAT, you can buy one at auto parts store and DIY, Approx $150, make sure you change the oil before you go and have it tested. Old oil has more HC when it gets burnt into exhaust. My sons old caviler some years ago missed by about the same as your car. I put a bottle of the pass test stuff in and changed the oil and it passed the smog check II we have here in my town. This test is low speed 5mph and high speed 25mph on a tredmill. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozier Posted June 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 JGR7, I have already changed the oil, added emmissions test paster fuel additive, and this dang car has the ODBII style cat that costs over $300 anywhere I go. It tucked up in the engine compartment and so they all want about $250 to install. I'm really considering adding the alcohol to the gas tank now before going to test it. I'm finding lots of results on the internet about adding Ethanol but non about standard rubbing alcohol. Is there much difference? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 SEA FOAM I love sea foam and it kicks mucho *smurf*. Dump it down the intake, put it in the gas, put it in the crankcase, read the instructions and it should lower output significantly as long as most of the cause is varnish/buildup/carbon/etc. If you need some help using it let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I believe that ethanol is fuel that is made from corn. It probably would run cleaner, but I don't know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozier Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I mixed ethanol fuel at a 1:3 ratio to gasoline. Took the car in to the smog test and failed again. This time by 2 ppm!!!!!! UGGG. So I'm trying to decide whether to up the ethanol/gas ratio to get it to pass, or to try to solve the actual issue. Another dumb question to all you wise, weise people: I have a cat, then what appears to be a resonator, then the muffler. Instead of paying $500 for an OBDII cat, can I remove the resonator and put a universal cat in its place. (i'm finding them locally for around $40 bucks) Then with hack saw and clamps I'm in business? This way I'd let the universal cat be there to actually clean the emissions up and have the old cat there to satisfy the smog guys and computer? The resonator is about half way between the cat and the muffler. Would a universal cat in the resonators place get hot enough to do it's job? (maybe 24 inches downpipe from the original cat) Thanks for ideas!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Concours Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Try www.xtremeflow.com/catalyticconverters.htm. They usually have pretty good prices. I think you have to call them for prices. Also, I found one for a 97Stratus at catalyticconvertersite.com. It's from All OEM Converters and the retail is 326.64, your price is 163.32, including free shipping. For that price there is no since putting on an additional converter. I think if you do a google on catalytic converters, you'll find them even cheaper. Good Luck, Jeff Jeff 98 Concours 90 Seville 04 Corvette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozier Posted June 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I appreciate you looking around for me, Jeff. I followed the link to catalyticconvertersite.com . I noticed that the cats they have listed for the Stratus said "except CA" so i guess that the smog nazi's around here have special cats. Since catalyticconvertersite.com are OEM parts, I really doubt that the other site would meet whatever regulations california has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozier Posted July 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Back with......... 'the rest of the story'... Repair estimates kept on getting higher and higher, so I decided to take another shot of the ethanol. Which is just denatured alcohol from Home Depot, btw. I waited until the fuel light came on and then dumped a gallon of the stuff in there. The way I figued it, I probably ended up with around a 40% mixture ethanol/gasoline. Took it back for another test and droped my HC 8 ppm million FOR A PASS! I was pretty happy about that. I did raise the NOx quite a bit but it still passed. So thanks all, and especially you, ED, for all the help. If I had just listened to you from the get go, It would have saved me a lot of time! Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wontgoslo Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 "DIRECT FIT CONVERTERS" look on line or call 1-888-651-0770.i bought one for my 1996 seville sts OBDII too.paid 158. bucks delivered. the OBDII s just have a threaded bung so you could screw in the O2 sensor. bolts right in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Congratulations!! I can imagine how you felt because I had kind of the same situation with mine. I moved to California a year ago and the first thing you have to do is get your car smogged. The car always passed smog in Washington so I didn't think it would have any problem, but when I took it in, it failed by 3 times on the NOX and gained the status of "GROSS POLLUTER". The station told me to buy a newer car because the car was never designed to pass such stringent emissions. I decided that this was ridiculous and that I wasn't going to be a victim of California's smog laws and have to go spend a lot of money to buy a newer car. So what I did is I hooked the egr valve directly to vacuum so that it stayed all the way open and then set the timing back until the engine would idle again. I took it in to another garage and it lowered the NOX just enough to pass. What was funny was the mechanic said that the car was so low in power that it barely could get the dyno turning. I think he knew what I did but thought it was so funny that he just ignored it and went ahead and tested it. I feel that with any law, there is always a work around. It just requires a little creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.