TAB Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Well my certified warranty ended back in April and today I get my first message on my DIC. "Service Suspension Sys". Oh boy! nothing like scaring the S#@T out of me. One of the most expensive areas to repair. Anyways, on the way home, another message displayed stating that my top speed is now limited to 90 mph! So with the help of this site I ran the diagnostics and it returned a C0584 code as current. It did show a C0852 as History???. In any case, I do have the complete set of GM repair manuals and it seems that there are numerous test that are required along with a scanner tool to pinpoint the failure? The ride seems normal, and I don't notice anything in particular wrong with the vehicle. I erased the codes and plan to pull all 4 wheels off this evening and check the connections for the sensors. Does anybody have any ideas what I can do? or does this require the dealer to run the complete diagnostics to determine if there is a failure? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB Posted July 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 I spoke to one Dealer and he said just guessing without doing the diagnostics could be a wheel speed sensor due to the message of limiting my speed to 90 mph. But of course they don't know without looking at it. I took the 4 wheels off last night but didn't see any loose connections. My co-worker has a relative that works for GM and does some type of testing on current and future models. He said he could lend me a scanner and have it loaded with my models info based on Vin # for one day. I'm going to read my service manual and see if it is too difficult to follow the step by step procedures to determine the actual cause. If so, then a trip to the dealer will be my next and only option. Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 What happens if you clear the code and test drive the car? Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB Posted July 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 What happens if you clear the code and test drive the car? So far the "Service Suspension System" immediately appears after I put the car in gear. I tried this twice. The "speed limited to 90 mph" hasn't re-appeared yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 What happens if you clear the code and test drive the car? So far the "Service Suspension System" immediately appears after I put the car in gear. I tried this twice. The "speed limited to 90 mph" hasn't re-appeared yet. Do this test again after clearing the codes. What code or codes do you retrieve the instant after putting the car in gear? Display the codes without moving the car; in other words, as soon as the message appears, shut the engine down and display the DTCs without moving the car. What I am trying to do is eliminate the wheel speed sensors as contributing to the problem. The wheel speed sensors are not a factor below a certain speed. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 What happens if you clear the code and test drive the car? So far the "Service Suspension System" immediately appears after I put the car in gear. I tried this twice. The "speed limited to 90 mph" hasn't re-appeared yet. Do this test again after clearing the codes. What code or codes do you retrieve the instant after putting the car in gear? Display the codes without moving the car; in other words, as soon as the message appears, shut the engine down and display the DTCs without moving the car. What I am trying to do is eliminate the wheel speed sensors as contributing to the problem. The wheel speed sensors are not a factor below a certain speed. Hi Jim, I erased all codes and started the car. Left it in park. The "service suspesnsion system" displayed and I shut the engine off. The only code given was the C0584. I erased all codes, turned the ignition off, turn the ignition on without starting the car. "service suspension system" and the C0584 was again diplayed. I erased all codes, turned off the ignition, started the car and took it for a ride around the block. Max speed was 30 mph. The "Service Suspension System" displayed and was followed by the "speed limited to 90 mph" . I turned the car off and read the codes. I got the C0584 current & C0582 History. It seems the C0582 History shows up when the car has moved. Thanks, Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ion Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 So with the help of this site I ran the diagnostics and it returned a C0584 code as current. C0584 - Right Front Solenoid Circuit Open It did show a C0852 as History???. I couldn't find a "C0852", I'm guessing you juxtaposed the "5" and the "8", because these two are related: C0582 - Right Front Solenoid Circuit Low Couldn't tell you how to fix this, but at least you have a description of the error code that was generated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Pull that RF wheel again. There is a cylindrical lump at the bottom inboard end of the strut with a wire harness coming out of it; that is the strut solenoid housing. Follow that wire harness all the way into the bottom of the engine bay at the LF fender well surface. There is a connector where the strut solenoid harness connects to the chassis wiring. Be sure that connector is clean and tight and the wire harness is not damaged. There is one more test where you can open that connector and use a resistor in place of the solenoid temporarily to see if the message and code go away. I will have to find the resistor value for you. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Jim / Ion, I greatly appreciate our help with my issue. I hope to get home early enough to take a look at the wiring from the strut to the connector. I will keep you posted on my progress. Thanks, Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 .... Follow that wire harness all the way into the bottom of the engine bay at the LF fender well surface. That should have said RF fender well surface. Sorry about the typo.... Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB Posted August 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 Pull that RF wheel again. There is a cylindrical lump at the bottom inboard end of the strut with a wire harness coming out of it; that is the strut solenoid housing. Follow that wire harness all the way into the bottom of the engine bay at the LF fender well surface. There is a connector where the strut solenoid harness connects to the chassis wiring. Be sure that connector is clean and tight and the wire harness is not damaged. There is one more test where you can open that connector and use a resistor in place of the solenoid temporarily to see if the message and code go away. I will have to find the resistor value for you. Jim, I put the car up on ramps since had to do an oil change anyway. I followed the right strut solenoid wire up to the RF inside engine compartment where there was a connector. It looked tight. I disconnected it and reconnected it making sure it was nice and tight. This wire continued into a larger harness into the RF Firewall and came out on the LF Firewall into some type of Wire block that housed at least 20 wires. I then did the same to the LF solenoid and connected/reconnected and it to ended up at the same wire block. This Block/Harness looked clean and secure. I also disconnected/reconnected the Hub speed sensor connector and the ABS connector that resides just behind the rotors just to make sure that they weren't loose. I reset the codes and started the car. Same error code appeared C0584. I reset the codes again and turned the ignition on only. not starting the car. Same code appeared. Oh well for a simple fix. I thing I will borrow the GM Scanner from my friend and see if I can follow the Service manual and see if I can pinpoint the problem. Last resort, the dealer. The car rides fine in the default soft mode and I never go over 90 mph, so depending on the cost, we will see what happens. Again, any suggestions is greatly appreciated. Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 5, 2007 Report Share Posted August 5, 2007 ....I reset the codes and started the car. Same error code appeared C0584. I reset the codes again and turned the ignition on only. not starting the car. Same code appeared. Oh well for a simple fix. I thing I will borrow the GM Scanner from my friend and see if I can follow the Service manual and see if I can pinpoint the problem. Last resort, the dealer. Sounds like the solenoid in the strut has failed. The car rides fine in the default soft mode and I never go over 90 mph, so depending on the cost, we will see what happens. It should default to the firm mode if your year model is designed the same as my '98. Do you know if you have the magneride option if it was available for your year; it could make a difference. Again, any suggestions is greatly appreciated. If the installed price of front struts makes you gag, it is possible to fool the suspension module. You would want to do the same modification to both front struts to preclude creating a possible unsafe condition from side to side. Think about that one. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB Posted August 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 ....I reset the codes and started the car. Same error code appeared C0584. I reset the codes again and turned the ignition on only. not starting the car. Same code appeared. Oh well for a simple fix. I thing I will borrow the GM Scanner from my friend and see if I can follow the Service manual and see if I can pinpoint the problem. Last resort, the dealer. Sounds like the solenoid in the strut has failed. The car rides fine in the default soft mode and I never go over 90 mph, so depending on the cost, we will see what happens. It should default to the firm mode if your year model is designed the same as my '98. Do you know if you have the magneride option if it was available for your year; it could make a difference. Again, any suggestions is greatly appreciated. If the installed price of front struts makes you gag, it is possible to fool the suspension module. You would want to do the same modification to both front struts to preclude creating a possible unsafe condition from side to side. Think about that one. I checked with the dealer and my own GM Service manuals and they both say that I have the Electronic suspension (CVRSS). I do have Magnasteer, but of course that is only for the steering. The dealer said $90 to diagnose the problem. If the struts have to be replaced, the struts are about $1000 each and the labor $800… ouch! $2800, can they throw in a new engine? Just kidding! Anyways, the manual states for my year that the default for this code is soft for the struts. I can’t feel any difference in the way the car handles from the time the error didn’t exist. Could be that I drive mostly city and under 50 mph. Maybe if I had to brake hard or swerve I might notice more sway? But besides hitting the button to remove the message each time I start the car, I notice no difference! I plan to borrow a GM scanner loaded with my year’s data and follow the Service Manuals diagnostic steps. I see that you can run test on each strut to activate the solenoid. I will run these test and see what it tells me. There is also a Suspension recalibration function that you run when new struts are installed. I may run this to see if it resets anything! Last resort is to run to the dealer and have them run the diagnostics to pinpoint the exact issue. If they verify that a solenoid failed in the strut. I will probably hold-off replacing both until the time comes where the ride becomes noticeably sloppy. The last 2 years I would complain to the dealer that I felt the ride was quite hard during the winter months and they would always come back and say that everything checks out good. I often wonder if the solenoid was sticking in the hard setting at times and now it acted up altogether, of course after the warranty expired. Oh well!!! I mentioned this to the dealer trying to see if they would consider this in the cost, but of course they would not! Thanks again for your assistance and guidance on my issue and I will keep you updated on my progress. Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB Posted August 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Well your'e going to love this one! I've been waiting for my co-worker's friend to return from vacation to get a hold of the GM scanner and have been driving the vehicle with the Service Suspension message everytime I start the vehicle. On Monday I was driving to work and like much of the mid-west had heavy rains. I was exiting the freeway and the off ramp was flooded. Cars in front of me proceeded, but I wanted to pull off to the shoulder and back out. I couldn't due to a couple semi's and other cars lined up behind me. So I proceeded through slowly. The water was up to the front lower bumper. I was worried that I could be one of those guys that you see on the news with the car stuck in the middle of a flooded road and when viewing from home you yell saying "you stupid knuckle head, you should have known better!!!" Like I said, I had no choice. I made it through and within 3 minutes was parking at work. When I left work, the "speed limited to 90" re-appeared, haven't seen this message in weeks. I checked the codes while driving and the C0582 showed Current, and the C0584 which had always showed current was now showing History! I reset the codes and checked them again. The C0582 was now History and the C0584 didn't show at all. I did start to notice the suspension had tightened up by noticing bumps and dips were more controlled. Not as soft as it was when the errors caused the system to default to soft. The messages and codes have not re-appeared now for 2 days. I'll have to wait and see if this is temporary or not. It seems that a connection or wire either got wet, or the force of the water hitting the wire shook something up! I pray that it won't come back! But if it does, I'm not going to replace the struts until they begin to hurt the ride. Defaulting in soft mode was not a big deal. Of course I was limited to 90 mph . I will keep you posted if the problem returns. If it does, I will head for the first puddle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 I hope you are right and the faulty connection, or whatever the problem really is, was washed clean by the high water. The puddle repair has worked on more than one similar car. The confusing part is your comment about the ride firmness and I say that because there is a chance your codes are not associated with the suspension at all; those codes could be assigned to the internals of EBTCM. My '98 Seville Service Manual says nothing about your code numbers. The chassis to module connector for the EBTCM module has proven to be susceptible to corrosion. On top of that, the module is a two piece component bolted together and there is an internal electrical connector that passes information from the logic control portion to the solenoid valve portion. The EBTCM is located at the bottom left front of the engine cradle. It is the module where all the brake lines for the individual wheels originate and the two lines from the master cylinder as inputs. Check that chassis connector for corrosion and security. I would be tempted to remove the EBTCM, split it apart, and check the internal connector and put an Ohmmeter on the solenoid valve connections. There are 12 solenoids in that module. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMDTS Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 My 01 dts just came off warranty I know the feeling SH*T Happens Anyway GOOD LUCK Jim Document ID # 710108 2001 Cadillac Seville -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DTC C0577, C0578, C0579, C0582, C0583, C0584, C0587, C0588, C0589, C0592, C0593 or C0594 Circuit Description The strut actuator is controlled by the Continuously Variable Road Sensing Suspension (CVRSS) module with a Pulse-Width Modulation (PWM) signal. Switching the voltage ON and OFF at a high frequency (2.0 kHz), or pulse width modulating, controls the amount of current delivered to the actuator. By controlling the amount of current to the actuator the CVRSS module controls the damping force in the strut. A higher level of damping force is achieved by providing correspondingly higher current levels, relating to higher percentages of PWM duty cycle. The default damper state, which is no battery voltage, is one that provides a minimum damping force. The CVRSS module periodically commands each strut actuator to a preset PWM duty cycle in order to override the normal PWM command. During this preset PWM duty cycle, the CVRSS module is able to perform a diagnostic test on each strut actuator to determine if a malfunction is present. The preset PWM command can be either an OFF or ON state duty cycle. DTC C0577, C0582, C0587, or C0592 In order to test for the conditions that set DTC C0577, C0582, C0587, or C0592, the CVRSS module must first command the strut actuator OFF. If the voltage detected in the damper control circuit during the OFF state is less than a preset value, the test is repeated. If the CVRSS module again detects voltage less than the preset value, a DTC will be set. DTC C0578, C0583, C0588, or C0593 In order to test for the conditions that set DTC C0578, C0583, C0588, or C0593, the CVRSS module must first command the strut actuator ON. If the voltage detected in the damper control circuit during the ON state is greater than a preset value, the test is repeated. If the CVRSS module again detects voltage greater than the preset value, a DTC will be set. DTC C0579, C0584, C0589, or C0594 In order to test for the conditions that set DTC C0579, C0584, C0589, or C0594, the CVRSS module must first command the solenoid OFF. If the voltage detected in the damper control circuit during the OFF state is between two preset values, the test is repeated. If the CVRSS module again detects voltage between two preset values, a DTC will be set. Conditions for Running the DTC DTC C0577, C0579, C0582, C0584, C0587, C0589, C0592, or C0594 The following conditions must be present to run the DTC: The ignition is ON. The CVRSS module is in command OFF state. DTC C0578, C0583, C0588, or C0593 The following conditions must be present to run the DTC: The ignition is ON. The CVRSS module is in command ON state. Conditions for Setting the DTC DTC C0577, C0582, C0587, or C0592 The following conditions must be present to set the DTC: The CVRSS module detects voltage less than a preset value during two consecutive OFF state tests. The fault is detected during three consecutive ignition cycles, or during the same ignition cycle after clearing the DTC with a scan tool. DTC C0578, C0583, C0588, or C0593 The following conditions must be present to set the DTC: The CVRSS module detects voltage greater than a preset value during two consecutive ON state tests. The fault is detected during three consecutive ignition cycles, or during the same ignition cycle after clearing the DTC with a scan tool. DTC C0579, C0584, C0589, or C0594 The following conditions must be present to set the DTC: The CVRSS module detects voltage between two preset values during two consecutive OFF state tests. The fault is detected during three consecutive ignition cycles, or during the same ignition cycle after clearing the DTC with a scan tool. Action Taken When the DTC Sets DTC C0578, C0579, C0583, C0584, C0588, C0589, C0593, or C0594 The following actions will occur when a DTC is set: The SERVICE SUSPENSION SYS message will be displayed. ALL the strut actuators will be disabled by commanding 0 percent PWM duty cycle. The vehicle ride will be soft. DTC C0577, C0582, C0587, or C0592 The following conditions must be present to run the DTC: The SERVICE SUSPENSION SYS and SPEED LIMITED TO XXX messages will be displayed. ALL the strut actuators will be disabled by commanding 0 percent PWM duty cycle. The damper relay control switch will be opened and the damper relay de-energized. The vehicle speed will be limited. The vehicle ride will be soft. Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC The scan tool can be used to clear the DTC. The DTC is saved as history when the CVRSS module no longer detects the fault during two consecutive diagnostic tests. The DTC will clear if the fault does not return after 50 consecutive ignition cycles. Diagnostic Aids If multiple strut actuator circuit DTCs are stored along with DTC C0690, diagnose DTC C0690 first. If the DTC is a history DTC, the fault may be intermittent. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections in Wiring Systems. Test Description The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table. Tests for voltage at the coil side of the solenoid. Verifies that the CVRSS module is providing ground to the solenoid. Tests if ground is constantly being applied to the solenoid. Step Action Value(s) Yes No Schematic Reference: Suspension Controls Schematics 1 Did you perform the Road Sensing Suspension Diagnostic System Check? -- Go to Step 2 Go to Diagnostic System Check - Road Sensing Suspension 2 Disconnect the strut actuator connector. Measure the resistance of the strut actuator. Does the resistance measure within the specified value? 9.5- 15.5 ohms Go to Step 3 Go to Step 11 3 Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. Probe the damper drive circuit of the actuator with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Does the test lamp illuminate? -- Go to Step 4 Go to Step 10 4 Connect a test lamp between the damper control circuit of the actuator and the damper drive circuit of the actuator. With a scan tool, command the actuator ON and OFF . Does the test lamp turn ON and OFF with each command? -- Go to Step 8 Go to Step 5 5 Does the test lamp remain illuminated with each command? -- Go to Step 7 Go to Step 6 6 Test the damper control circuit of the actuator for an open or a short to voltage. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 13 Go to Step 9 7 Test the damper control circuit of the actuator for a short to ground. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 13 Go to Step 9 8 Inspect for poor connections at the actuator. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 13 Go to Step 11 9 Inspect for poor connections at the harness connector of the CVRSS module. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 13 Go to Step 12 10 Repair the damper drive circuit of the actuator. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you complete the repair? -- Go to Step 13 -- 11 Replace the strut/shock absorber. Refer to Strut Assembly Replacement in Front Suspension or Shock Absorber Replacement in Rear Suspension. Did you complete the replacement? -- Go to Step 13 -- 12 Important Perform the set up procedure for the CVRSS module. Replace the CVRSS module. Refer to Electronic Suspension Control Module Replacement . Did you complete the replacement? -- Go to Step 13 -- 13 Use the scan tool in order to clear the DTCs . Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC as specified in the supporting text. Does the DTC reset? Step Action Value(s) Yes No Schematic Reference: Suspension Controls Schematics -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Electronic Suspension Control Module Replacement Removal Procedure Remove the rear compartment trim panel. Refer to Compartment Trim Panel Replacement - Rear in Body Rear End. Access the rear electronics compartment. Disconnect the electrical connectors from the CVRSS module. Remove the CVRSS module from the right electronics bay. Installation Procedure Install the CVRSS module in the right electronics bay. Connect the electrical connectors to the CVRSS module. Close the rear electronics compartment. Install the rear compartment trim panel. Refer to Compartment Trim Panel Replacement - Rear in Body Rear End. Perform the CVRSS module Calibration. Refer to Electronic Suspension Control Module Calibration . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Oh well; I have been wrong before today Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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