milansky

seville 1996 transmission stuck in second gear

Recommended Posts

This picture is from and advertisement for a shift kit so disregard the sales hype. This is the valve that I think is stuck in your trans

TCCvalve.jpg


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't find a power flow chart for you. :(


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

R u suggesting replacing that valve and springs and .... basically everything displayed in that advert? We are concerned about troubles within lower valve body and u r pointing to upper valve body. Hmm. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you PM me your email Ill send some scans of the fluid flow at 2 - 3


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am suggesting removing it and making sure it is or is not stuck. The TCC solenoid has a different ohm value than the shift solenoids. The TCC value range is 10-11 ohms at 68F and 13-15 ohms at 212F

The TCC solenoid is under the chain cover, the shift solenoids are under the pan. I'll double-check but I'm pretty sure the valve in the advert is under the chain cover.

I think @BodybyFisher has done the chain cover removal in the car by lowering the cradle on the left side.

Edited by OldCadTech

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the valve body for the valves in the advert are under the chain cover.


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, OldCadTech said:

I am suggesting removing it and making sure it is or is not stuck. The TCC solenoid has a different ohm value than the shift solenoids. The TCC value range is 10-11 ohms at 68F and 13-15 ohms at 212F

The TCC solenoid is under the chain cover, the shift solenoids are under the pan. I'll double-check but I'm pretty sure the valve in the advert is under the chain cover.

I think @BodybyFisher has done the chain cover removal in the car by lowering the cradle on the left side.

Yes I did.  Ill find my thread and link it later.  

I apoligize up front for not reading this entire thread, so forgive me, but my head was into the lack of shifting at all, why are we worrying at this point about the TCC solenoid at all?  I am not being cute by saying that I am just trying to get my head around where you all are.  I do believe I saw the mention of a P0741.

But the bigger issue is the non shifting from my perspective.  Is it.shifting from 1st to 2nd and then free wheeling?

Have you tested for continuity between the PCM connector and the tranny plug?

My understanding that the tranny was not shifting, was REBUILT,  and its STILL not shifting, is that correct?

Consideration was given as to whether this could be a PCM problem, correct?

I also agree that back probing the connector with power has the potential to fry the PCM, so I am a little nervous about that.

Who rebuilt it?  I would hope that after a rebuild by a reputable firm, this would not be possible for the non shifting to remain after the reputable shop disassembled, cleaned and inspected the valve bodies.

My feeling is that this might be outside the tranny.  Have you done the diagnostic tree for the shift solenoids from the service manual?

What am I missing?  Do I have the general facts correct or am I confusing this with another thread?

Original poster.I can't post photo links here from photobucket they said I was up to my limit for linking and shut me down today.  I will send system flow charts from a 4T80e tech manual that I have.  What is the limit on your email account?, I think my Yahoo account is 20megs.

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/29/2017 at 3:45 AM, milansky said:

UPDATE: Both shift solenoids display required resistance 19 - 24 ohms (reading at 21,8 ohms). So we did one tricky thing. We clipped onto a wire (Engine side end) from 1-2 solenoid (light green) + 2-3 solenoid (yel/blk) + TCC solenoid (tan) + ground connection to manually command a shift. We made something like a switch board to which our wire clips were attached and took it for test drive. In "D" - solenoid A ON  solenoid B OFF in first gear, in second gear A - OFF, B OFF, in third gear A OFF - B ON, in fourth gear A ON - B ON. Commanding through those switches did not change a thing so basically car was still in second with no change in rpms like of you had stick shift and changed your gear/speed by depressing clutch and upshifted by hand manually. So it is not electrical issue- shift solenoids or TCC.

 

23 hours ago, OldCadTech said:

We are not trying to "kill" you. We are actually trying to help you. There is a real trouble shooting "path" to follow, we need you to focus on the same path.


@rockfangd Is absolutely correct, mileage IS only a number and Cadillac is not the only vehicle to have problems.

Also, Yes, I was referring to the PCM PROBABLY being damaged as it relates to the transmission, Maybe you are very lucky and the PCM is fine. My past experience tells me any kind of stray voltage, voltage spikes, static electricity or opposing voltage can and usually does damage electronic modules.

We need to know:

1) Is this the same transmission case that was rebuilt or was another ( rebuilt ) transmission purchased and installed?

2) Where was the transmission overhauled?

3) Was the torque converter replaced?

4) What is the line pressure?

5) What voltage were you applying to the shift solenoids and the TCC solenoid? 9v ? 10v ? 12v?

6) How did you control the applied voltage?

7) Did you personally overhaul or assist in the overhaul of the transmission - if so, are you 100% sure all the check balls are in the correct locations?

8) A list of ALL the codes hard or soft, current or history. Cadillacs systems, and those of other vehicles also interact with each other

 

 

23 hours ago, milansky said:

1) Is this the same transmission case that was rebuilt or was another ( rebuilt ) transmission purchased and installed? It is the same case with all gaskets, seals, filters and solenoids replaced for new.

2) Where was the transmission overhauled? At a private garage/service guy. I know it is risky but this supposed excellent. They say...Anyway he is ready to open it again.

3) Was the torque converter replaced?  NO, before transmission was removed converter was checked for slippage at dealer claiming there is no need for converter replacement. How a dealer done the testing I have no clue

4) What is the line pressure? Since Im based in Europe not yet we r looking for a proper adapter for line pressure port.

5) What voltage were you applying to the shift solenoids and the TCC solenoid? 9v ? 10v ? 12v? 12V.

6) How did you control the applied voltage? voltmeter

7) Did you personally overhaul or assist in the overhaul of the transmission - if so, are you 100% sure all the check balls are in the correct locations? yes, technician was provided with original GM service manuals. This should be OK.

8) A list of ALL the codes hard or soft, current or history. Cadillacs systems, and those of other vehicles also interact with each other Have to find my paper. Will get it later.

When it comes to line pressure, does anyone have a color diagram where it is clear how fluid flows during gear changes? It would help to clarify possible causes for not having FIRST, THIRD and FOURTH gear.  

 

@BodybyFisher  Thanks Mike for chiming in :)

I think the above quotes cover most of it. The TCC is not the main issue at all, the no shift is. At this time we still have more questions than answers

The transmission was rebuilt after this happened by somebody 

On 6/29/2017 at 11:29 AM, milansky said:

Car was running absolutely fine never had any issues with transmission at all. No hard shifts whining noise or any of that. As I mentioned before Caddy is just above 76200 miles. But one day after traffic light stop transmission gave up on me

The malfunction is still present. The guy that did the trans rebuild is ready to "open" the trans back up. I'm still waiting for line pressure results but if the line pressure and the solenoids are good it has a check ball out of place or a valve is stuck in its bore. The 12v "Trick Test" of the TCC is almost certainly a death sentence for the TCC solenoid which is a PWM solenoid and the shift solenoids "tests" warrants another exam of the shift solenoids and related wiring for damage while the trans is disassembled, and/or possibly a PCM replace. That 12v "test" and ground switching went somewhere.

In a perfect scenario, and all the solenoids are good, there is still the possibility of low line pressure, of a stuck 1-2 shift valve, a stuck TCC control valve, a malfunction that causes the trans to default to 2nd gear. The TCC issue should be fixed also, the PCM is still seeing excessive TCC slippage. Do it now or take it apart again later.

I haven't seen a P0751, P0753, P0756, P0758 mentioned, so that is a little strange but it may still be on the paper when he finds it. That would explain a lot.

As I said earlier too many questions and not enough answers.

 

 

Take it apart ONE last time and fix it right.


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks @OldCadTech

I don't know how the dealer could give the torque converter the stamp of approval once a P0741 sets, the TCC is slipping and burning the clutches, its not like you can easily replace it later.  In my opinion it needed replacing during the overhaul.  There are two seals that maintain TCC pressure that were replaced along with the TCC solenoid, but there is a problem that causes a P0741 in the valve body also.  See this from Sonnax

http://www.sonnax.com/parts/2339-tcc-regulator-valve-kit

Given the work to replace it I think the converter needed replacing to eliminate it from the equation.

Ill post some info from the tech manual

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@BodybyFisher I agree it was always SOP to replace it

The FSM states the TC only needs to be changed if the TC viscous fluid leaks into the trans, there is clutch material or metal component particles in the trans fluid, pan and in the filter.

BUT, it is good practice and in the customers best interest to replace it during overhaul.

Remember, the FSM's are assuming the vehicle is still under factory warranty.


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Standard Operating Procedure..... OR Practice - either way

 

Edited by OldCadTech

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, OldCadTech said:

 

 

@BodybyFisher  Thanks Mike for chiming in :)

I think the above quotes cover most of it. The TCC is not the main issue at all, the no shift is. At this time we still have more questions than answers

The transmission was rebuilt after this happened by somebody 

The malfunction is still present. The guy that did the trans rebuild is ready to "open" the trans back up. I'm still waiting for line pressure results but if the line pressure and the solenoids are good it has a check ball out of place or a valve is stuck in its bore. The 12v "Trick Test" of the TCC is almost certainly a death sentence for the TCC solenoid which is a PWM solenoid and the shift solenoids "tests" warrants another exam of the shift solenoids and related wiring for damage while the trans is disassembled, and/or possibly a PCM replace. That 12v "test" and ground switching went somewhere.

In a perfect scenario, and all the solenoids are good, there is still the possibility of low line pressure, of a stuck 1-2 shift valve, a stuck TCC control valve, a malfunction that causes the trans to default to 2nd gear. The TCC issue should be fixed also, the PCM is still seeing excessive TCC slippage. Do it now or take it apart again later.

I haven't seen a P0751, P0753, P0756, P0758 mentioned, so that is a little strange but it may still be on the paper when he finds it. That would explain a lot.

As I said earlier too many questions and not enough answers.

 

 

Take it apart ONE last time and fix it right.

Hi. After that TRICK I mentioned we rechecked all solenoids in transmission and they all show required OHM reading as listed in GM manual to make sure no death sentence happened. I should be getting colour diagram of fluid pressure to see how fluid flows within during shifting after selecting "D". This could help us figure out possible blockage somewhere not allowing first third and fourth gear. We are rejecting electrical faults and we are more and more assuming manual type of fault. Too bad so many kits on the market for transmission overhaul but none I found was including new springs or valves for valve body if that is assumed cause of second gear only situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, good luck with the transmission. 

Never reject any fault possibility. It is an electronically shifted transmission.


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a few items that can cause second gear starts one of which is turning traction control off.  I see there is a traction control code 73 regarding communication with the PCM, I have been scanning the manual, but if the simple act of turning off the TC can result in second gear starts, a 73 communication fault affecting the delivered torque vs requested torque most certainly could result in a 2nd gear start to protect the tranny

 

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

There are a few items that can cause second gear starts one of which is turning traction control off.  I see there is a traction control code 73 regarding communication with the PCM, I have been scanning the manual, but if the simple act of turning off the TC can result in second gear starts, a 73 communication fault affecting the delivered torque vs requested torque most certainly could result in a 2nd gear start to protect the tranny

 

 

Yes there is TC 0027 and TC 0073

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your replies have been less than helpful and in some cases rude.  

This is a give and take, we can't help without feedback from you.  

Example, look at your reply to what I said above, "yes there is TC 0027 and TC 0073"?  Well no kidding, it was in your first post.  Above you are looking for a single problem causing no 1,.3 and 4 shift, when there could be 2 causes.  The point that I and Bruce were bringing up was that a traction control issue CAN INDEED cause second gear starts.  You ignore that idea because "the TC light has been on for ages".

The 27 alone will cause the message, but 00073?, 0073 is a serious code that turns the traction control light on and turns traction control OFF.  I can easily see that causing a second gear start.  You may be experiencing  2 separate problems here.

I ask for your email, to send you the flow diagrams and you ignore it.

OldCadTech shows a picture regarding a TCC valve in the upper control valve body related to the P0741 and you are rude?

You seem frustrated, I get that, but you seem to be putting up road blocks and arguing rather than looking for solutions, ie, the traction control light has been on for ages, the torque converter was tested at the dealer, upper valve body, hmm, it says to test the resistance at the solenoid not the plug, etc.  

First, I have no idea how the dealer tested the torque converter.  Do you understand that the P0741 is related to slipping torque converter overdrive clutches, slipping causes heat and the clutches to wear and depending upon how long it slipped the clutches are permanently damaged. Given that the tranny must come out to replace the torque converter, under no instance would I not replace the torque converter once I saw a P0741 code unless I immediately parked the car after the P0741 code showed up which is unlikely in most cases.

It is not likely valve springs, its the valves themselves causing the problem, scored, binding, debris or leaking from wear.  

The low mileage of the car means nothing.

Did the rebiilder disassemble, inspect and clean the valve bodies and was he meticulously clean?  Was care taken to be sure the check balls are back where they belong.  We have seen members change the shift solenoids and wind up with similar issues.

You are making a lot of assumptions that I think are causing you problems try to be OPEN to suggestions.  

You say you are from Europe, we could be having communication problems as a result along with the time difference.  But this type of commumication does not work unless both parties are on the same page.

Try to be more open to suggestions and more forthcoming with information, we are trying to help here.  Assume nothing

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys are great in helping out. I did send you my email in private message through this forum 3 times so it apperantly had not arrived. Pls use this email: milansky77@hotmail.com 

Regarding TC 0073 code. Is that code requring replacement of EBCTM unit?

I will get back to this post again at work from my PC since im using my mobile to reply most of the time while Im on the road. 

Thanks again for your help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the 0073 code is related to communication between the EBCTM and the PCM, it shuts down traction control and very well might default to 2nd gear starts, to protect the tranny from damage, so I would not think the second gear start is related to the tranny

I am sorry to have gone on a rant above, but we are trying to help, I myself spent 3 hours yesterday in the manual on this, without interaction and all the details we might as well stop trying because we are unable, so lets try to solve this.  I never got your email, Ill check my mail box it might be full.

Here are some scans, Ill post more

scan0011.jpg

scan0012.jpg

scan0013.jpg

scan0014.jpg

scan0015.jpg

scan0016.jpg


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I suspected the 0073 code defaults to SECOND GEAR, see member Franey in this thread, he says this

"THE CONTROLER UNIT IS BAD. THEIR IS A SERVICE TECH BULLETIN OUT ABOUT THESE CONTROLLERS FOR CERTAIN VIN NUMBER CARS, Defective after a certain amount of time, IF , it is bad the only alternative is having it rebuilt . or buying a new one. IT will start coming on more often, when it does it defaults the car to taking off in second gear and disengages the traction control. I have the been their done that T SHIRT on this problem. This simple test will show that their is a short inside the module."

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

As I suspected the 0073 code defaults to SECOND GEAR, see member Franey in this thread, he stays this

"THE CONTROLER UNIT IS BAD. THEIR IS A SERVICE TECH BULLETIN OUT ABOUT THESE CONTROLLERS FOR CERTAIN VIN NUMBER CARS, Defective after a certain amount of time, IF , it is bad the only alternative is having it rebuilt . or buying a new one. IT will start coming on more often, when it does it defaults the car to taking off in second gear and disengages the traction control. I have the been their done that T SHIRT on this problem. This simple test will show that their is a short inside the module."

 

Appreciate that. My transmission guy has warned me already that if pressure testing is within limits he is refusing to take furter responsibility unless I have TC control sorted out so it looks like Im gonna have to do some ebay or rockauto.com searching for rebuilt EBCTM unit. On tuesday I will know more after he gets line pressure checked. Thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I posted 6 scans above to get you started, is that what you are looking for?

I will post more later, there is some good stuff in this tech manual.

Check all connections and the ground wire at the EBCTM unit, first, this could be a bad connection, we have seen that before.  Be careful with that connector, there is a latch type connector, don't force it, clean that connector with electronics cleaner and make sure its not wet from water, etc

Also, clean and inspect the main plug at the transmission and check the continuity between the PCM and the transmission.  Last summer I solved a 2-3, 3-4 shift problem on a 95 by cleaning the main connector

Good Luck


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

I posted 6 scans above to get you started, is that what you are looking for? YES that is it.

I will post more later, there is some good stuff in this tech manual. Perfect

Check all connections and the ground wire at the EBCTM unit, first, this could be a bad connection, we have seen that before.  Be careful with that connector, there is a latch type connector, don't force it, clean that connector with electronics cleaner and make sure its not wet from water, etc. YES, that has been done and is OK.

Also, clean and inspect the main plug at the transmission and check the continuity between the PCM and the transmission.  Last summer I solved a 2-3, 3-4 shift problem on a 95 by cleaning the main connector. YES that has been done when doing that "TRICK" I mentioned above when testing shift solenoids, pressure solenoids, TCC solenoid + other inside.

Good Luck

When it comes to EBCTM unit, I will replace it anyway since there is no ABS function on brakes (have checked car behavior on light gravel, car is skidding like mad). Do you recommend changing just that "BRAIN" part on EBCTM or changing the whole unit with brake lines as well? I have been warned about buying this stuff from EBAY since when purchase is made, item is delivered first to family address in New Jersey and then send overseas so having faulty unit after 3 - 4 weeks would not make me happy. Any recommendations about reliable company for EBCTM units on the market? Lastly when EBCTM is replaced is PCM going to recognize it?

Thanks a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go to this thread, and read up on the TC0073.  Ultimately the code was eliminated by replacing the EBCTM.  Notice that turning on the AC sets the code because they have a shared ground

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/166961-traction-control-light-code-tc0073.html#/topics/166961?page=1

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@BodybyFisher

Are you mixing second gear start with second gear only?

Transmission A codes are the only ones that will PREVENT it from shifting. Second gear start is completely different. Simply turning on Trac Control will force a 2nd gear start but the trans will shift to 3rd, 4th & lockup.


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.