Sprang Another Leak.

[Marika]

Since having all the leaks fixed for the cooling system, the car was good. Yesterday, I noticed a puddle of antifreeze on the driver side front of the engine compartment. Opened the hood and found the antifreeze was now leaking from the side tank of the driver side radiator.

http://members14.clubphoto.com/marika10035...780/guest.phtml

I can't upload pictures here for some reason so I've included the above link instead.

What next?

[Bruce Nunnally]

Oh, that's frustrating when you fix something then a similar problem happens. Were the plastic side tanks replaced in the previous repair/maintenance work?

[Marika]

Oh, that's frustrating when you fix something then a similar problem happens. Were the plastic side tanks replaced in the previous repair/maintenance work?

No, it wasn't but since the system had been pressure tested it was fine at the time. It only seems to leak when the system reaches the 15 psi limit, it leaks for about 30 seconds, then stops.

Since having all the leaks fixed for the cooling system, the car was good. Yesterday, I noticed a puddle of antifreeze on the driver side front of the engine compartment. Opened the hood and found the antifreeze was now leaking from the side tank of the driver side radiator.

http://members14.clubphoto.com/marika10035...780/guest.phtml

I can't upload pictures here for some reason so I've included the above link instead.

What next?

Can those side tanks be replaced without having to spring for the $$$ for an entire new radiator?

[Ranger]

Can those side tanks be replaced without having to spring for the $$$ for an entire new radiator?

Yes.

[Marika]

Can those side tanks be replaced without having to spring for the $$$ for an entire new radiator?

Yes.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! So how much do you think it would run, since I may as well change both of them at the same time? Rough estimate, adjusting for the fact that I live in the most expensive cost of living State in the Country, New Joisey.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Yes, I agree with Ranger; the shop manual for my previous 92 STS details radiator side tank removal, gasket, and replacement. Once the radiator is out of the car, you just pry up the clinch tabs along where the side tanks join the radiator core and it comes off. If you do the work yourself that's a good route.

If you take it to be done they will probably suggest that with the labor for removing the radiator to replace the side tanks you should just replace both side tanks and radiator at the same time.

[Marika]

Yes, I agree with Ranger; the shop manual for my previous 92 STS details radiator side tank removal, gasket, and replacement. Once the radiator is out of the car, you just pry up the clinch tabs along where the side tanks join the radiator core and it comes off. If you do the work yourself that's a good route.

If you take it to be done they will probably suggest that with the labor for removing the radiator to replace the side tanks you should just replace both side tanks and radiator at the same time.

So how much should this repair run me, roughly?

[Bruce Nunnally]

Radiators online appear to cost around $200 for the part.

Example: http://www.thepartsbin.com/repsite/cadilla...or~reparts.html

But I am not sure what the retail cost at cadillac is.

Add a markup for the shop, and labor, and you are at $400-$800 for the repair? Hard to tell as it depends on where you take it, how much they mark up the parts, how much the book shows for hours of labor, cost per hour of labor, etc.

Not to be redundant, but when they did the cooling system work before were the sealant tabs added to the coolant as specified in the manual? Small leaks can be plugged by use of sealant in the coolant. http://www.caddyinfo.com/howtosealant.htm

[Marika]

Radiators online appear to cost around $200 for the part.

Example: http://www.thepartsbin.com/repsite/cadilla...or~reparts.html

But I am not sure what the retail cost at cadillac is.

Add a markup for the shop, and labor, and you are at $400-$800 for the repair? Hard to tell as it depends on where you take it, how much they mark up the parts, how much the book shows for hours of labor, cost per hour of labor, etc.

Not to be redundant, but when they did the cooling system work before were the sealant tabs added to the coolant as specified in the manual? Small leaks can be plugged by use of sealant in the coolant. http://www.caddyinfo.com/howtosealant.htm

Yes, the dealership added the tablets and they did a really good job actually. This car is for some reason a real witch.

[Bruce Nunnally]

When you say it leaks at 15 psi for 30 sec then stops, how are you determining that?

Is the radiator cap on releasing pressure at the correct psi?

[Marika]

When you say it leaks at 15 psi for 30 sec then stops, how are you determining that?

Is the radiator cap on releasing pressure at the correct psi?

It only starts to leak when the coolant temperature reaches 223F. At that point it starts to leak, then the fan goes on, the temps start to fall and the leaking stops. I assume, the higher temps represent higher pressures and at lower temps there would be lower pressures. I have no real way of knowing if the radiator cap is working except that I do see the recovery tank fill as the engine gets hot. I also see very small amounts of bubbles in the recovery tank but since the radiator is leaking, I would have to assume that air is getting into the system through the leaks. I know there's nothing wrong with the gaskets on the engine.

[JimD]

I would try two inexpensive things before I repaired or replaced the radiator and/or end tanks;

1) Add another two tubes of Bars Leak powder (or equivalent).

2) Replace the pressure cap (just in case).

Just a ten dollar test.

[Marika]

I would try two inexpensive things before I repaired or replaced the radiator and/or end tanks;

1) Add another two tubes of Bars Leak powder (or equivalent).

2) Replace the pressure cap (just in case).

Just a ten dollar test.

The problem with that stop leak stuff is that too much of a good thing will definately ruin the radiator. There comes a point where there's so much of it in the system that it effects the cooling system in adverse ways. I know the tanks have never been replaced, the car is 1992. It's my bad luck that this car turned out to be a rotten witch giving me so much trouble. But look at the good side, once this stuff if fixed and replaced, then I shouldn't have any more problems with it.

[Bruce Nunnally]

So I suppose the sequence is, the end tank has a pinhole leak along the top of the end tank. This opens the system to the environment, and presents the system from maintaining pressure.

Water boils at 212F at atmospheric pressure. As the pressure rises, and mixed with fluid, the boiling point rises to something above 275F as part of normal system operation.Because of the pinhole leak in the side tank, the system is not able to maintain 14+ psi of pressure, so the boiling point of the coolant is somewhat less than normal.

When the coolant boils, some escapes via the pinhole in the side tank, presenting as a leak? That would seem to fit what you are describing. Can you locate the exact spot of the leak in the side tank? Maybe something simple like an external fix of a dab of superglue applied to it dry would keep it going a few years?

It only starts to leak when the coolant temperature reaches 223F. At that point it starts to leak, then the fan goes on, the temps start to fall and the leaking stops. I assume, the higher temps represent higher pressures and at lower temps there would be lower pressures. I have no real way of knowing if the radiator cap is working except that I do see the recovery tank fill as the engine gets hot. I also see very small amounts of bubbles in the recovery tank but since the radiator is leaking, I would have to assume that air is getting into the system through the leaks. I know there's nothing wrong with the gaskets on the engine.

[Marika]

So I suppose the sequence is, the end tank has a pinhole leak along the top of the end tank. This opens the system to the environment, and presents the system from maintaining pressure.

Water boils at 212F at atmospheric pressure. As the pressure rises, and mixed with fluid, the boiling point rises to something above 275F as part of normal system operation.Because of the pinhole leak in the side tank, the system is not able to maintain 14+ psi of pressure, so the boiling point of the coolant is somewhat less than normal.

When the coolant boils, some escapes via the pinhole in the side tank, presenting as a leak? That would seem to fit what you are describing. Can you locate the exact spot of the leak in the side tank? Maybe something simple like an external fix of a dab of superglue applied to it dry would keep it going a few years?

It only starts to leak when the coolant temperature reaches 223F. At that point it starts to leak, then the fan goes on, the temps start to fall and the leaking stops. I assume, the higher temps represent higher pressures and at lower temps there would be lower pressures. I have no real way of knowing if the radiator cap is working except that I do see the recovery tank fill as the engine gets hot. I also see very small amounts of bubbles in the recovery tank but since the radiator is leaking, I would have to assume that air is getting into the system through the leaks. I know there's nothing wrong with the gaskets on the engine.

If I catch it in time, I might be able to see where it's coming from. I'll have to give it a try. It's not losing massive amounts but it's losing.

[adallak]

Can those side tanks be replaced without having to spring for the $$$ for an entire new radiator?

Yes.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! So how much do you think it would run, since I may as well change both of them at the same time? Rough estimate, adjusting for the fact that I live in the most expensive cost of living State in the Country, New Joisey.

Marika,

I do recommend replacing the both end tanks. They are about $70 shipped from gmpartsdirect.com (inlet and outlet radiator tanks). They come with all the necessary gaskets. I did mine, and it's been better than new since. Do not get upset.

When you say it leaks at 15 psi for 30 sec then stops, how are you determining that?

Is the radiator cap on releasing pressure at the correct psi?

It only starts to leak when the coolant temperature reaches 223F. At that point it starts to leak, then the fan goes on, the temps start to fall and the leaking stops. I assume, the higher temps represent higher pressures and at lower temps there would be lower pressures. I have no real way of knowing if the radiator cap is working except that I do see the recovery tank fill as the engine gets hot. I also see very small amounts of bubbles in the recovery tank but since the radiator is leaking, I would have to assume that air is getting into the system through the leaks. I know there's nothing wrong with the gaskets on the engine.

The cracks open up when radiator is hot.

[MAC]

Last year, I bought a radiator from DiscountRadiators.com. So far, no problems and its fairly inexpensive. If you're certain where the leak is, perhaps you can do some mending with Epoxy and run with it until it can't go any further. However, if you plan on keeping your Seville you might as well consider installing a new radiator, especially if it’s the original. I know money doesn’t grow on trees but, from what I remember, tanks cost about $35-$40 each. Below is a link showing DiscountRadiators price for your radiator.

92 Seville Radiator - with A/C

[Marika]

Can those side tanks be replaced without having to spring for the $$$ for an entire new radiator?

Yes.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! So how much do you think it would run, since I may as well change both of them at the same time? Rough estimate, adjusting for the fact that I live in the most expensive cost of living State in the Country, New Joisey.

Marika,

I do recommend replacing the both end tanks. They are about $70 shipped from gmpartsdirect.com (inlet and outlet radiator tanks). They come with all the necessary gaskets. I did mine, and it's been better than new since. Do not get upset.

When you say it leaks at 15 psi for 30 sec then stops, how are you determining that?

Is the radiator cap on releasing pressure at the correct psi?

It only starts to leak when the coolant temperature reaches 223F. At that point it starts to leak, then the fan goes on, the temps start to fall and the leaking stops. I assume, the higher temps represent higher pressures and at lower temps there would be lower pressures. I have no real way of knowing if the radiator cap is working except that I do see the recovery tank fill as the engine gets hot. I also see very small amounts of bubbles in the recovery tank but since the radiator is leaking, I would have to assume that air is getting into the system through the leaks. I know there's nothing wrong with the gaskets on the engine.

The cracks open up when radiator is hot.

Just like my skull, the cracks open up when the brain gets hot....

Last year, I bought a radiator from DiscountRadiators.com. So far, no problems and its fairly inexpensive. If you're certain where the leak is, perhaps you can do some mending with Epoxy and run with it until it can't go any further. However, if you plan on keeping your Seville you might as well consider installing a new radiator, especially if it’s the original. I know money doesn’t grow on trees but, from what I remember, tanks cost about $35-$40 each. Below is a link showing DiscountRadiators price for your radiator.

92 Seville Radiator - with A/C

I plan on keeping the car for many years. So I think the best way to go is to replace everything and wait for the next leak to spring...

[adallak]

I would go with an aftermarket radiator. The OEM is too expensive and is not worth the money. Or keep the core and replace the tanks. Parts would be cheaper but labor would be more expensive.

[KHE]

I would try two inexpensive things before I repaired or replaced the radiator and/or end tanks;

1) Add another two tubes of Bars Leak powder (or equivalent).

2) Replace the pressure cap (just in case).

Just a ten dollar test.

The problem with that stop leak stuff is that too much of a good thing will definately ruin the radiator. There comes a point where there's so much of it in the system that it effects the cooling system in adverse ways. I know the tanks have never been replaced, the car is 1992. It's my bad luck that this car turned out to be a rotten witch giving me so much trouble. But look at the good side, once this stuff if fixed and replaced, then I shouldn't have any more problems with it.

No - the Bar's leaks will not ruin the radiator. If you added 20 pellets, it might plug but Jim is just suggesting adding another tube or two - that will not harm anything.

[Scotty]

I am not surprised that your radiator has leaked. You have had a lot of cooling system work lately. Your cooling system is now capable of holding higher pressures. As a result of the higher pressures (remember your cap was not holding pressure), your radiator became the weakest link. I had to change my radiator in my 91, the plastic side tanks get old and brittle and crack. In the beginning they release pressure at high pressures.

While I know that Adallak noted to buy aftermarket, from my experience in replacing mine, I originally bought an aftermarket radiator and the core was thinner and the fittings were different... I returned it and bought an AC DELCO and it fit perfect and was the same capacity. The most important thing is to make sure that the new radiator has the same capacity. I would go with an AC Delco given the condition of your car... Don't get frustrated, this is part of owning an older car.. Its not a difficult thing to replace, if you know a DIY mechanic, they can replace it quick and easily.. Mike

[Marika]

I am not surprised that your radiator has leaked. You have had a lot of cooling system work lately. Your cooling system is now capable of holding higher pressures. As a result of the higher pressures (remember your cap was not holding pressure), your radiator became the weakest link. I had to change my radiator in my 91, the plastic side tanks get old and brittle and crack. In the beginning they release pressure at high pressures.

While I know that Adallak noted to buy aftermarket, from my experience in replacing mine, I originally bought an aftermarket radiator and the core was thinner and the fittings were different... I returned it and bought an AC DELCO and it fit perfect and was the same capacity. The most important thing is to make sure that the new radiator has the same capacity. I would go with an AC Delco given the condition of your car... Don't get frustrated, this is part of owning an older car.. Its not a difficult thing to replace, if you know a DIY mechanic, they can replace it quick and easily.. Mike

I wasn't surprised either that it started to leak. I had a feeling the older portions of the system would experience increased fatigue because of its now being able to hold the proper pressure.

I intend to keep this car for many more years to come. Once I get all this mess ironed out, it will be a spectacular car to own and drive.

[adallak]

I am not surprised that your radiator has leaked. You have had a lot of cooling system work lately. Your cooling system is now capable of holding higher pressures. As a result of the higher pressures (remember your cap was not holding pressure), your radiator became the weakest link. I had to change my radiator in my 91, the plastic side tanks get old and brittle and crack. In the beginning they release pressure at high pressures.

While I know that Adallak noted to buy aftermarket, from my experience in replacing mine, I originally bought an aftermarket radiator and the core was thinner and the fittings were different... I returned it and bought an AC DELCO and it fit perfect and was the same capacity. The most important thing is to make sure that the new radiator has the same capacity. I would go with an AC Delco given the condition of your car... Don't get frustrated, this is part of owning an older car.. Its not a difficult thing to replace, if you know a DIY mechanic, they can replace it quick and easily.. Mike

I wasn't surprised either that it started to leak. I had a feeling the older portions of the system would experience increased fatigue because of its now being able to hold the proper pressure.

I intend to keep this car for many more years to come. Once I get all this mess ironed out, it will be a spectacular car to own and drive.

Absolutely! Your car gets stornger and stronger, and with 70.000 miles on the clock it has tons of good service ahead. Unfortunately, Bar's Leaks is not going to seal the cracks in side tanks. Get new tanks or a radiator ASAP.

[Ed Fenwick]

Aloha Marika,

No one will argue that a new tank is the best way to go, but I have had very good luck with epoxy on the tank of a Mercedes Benz. I don't reckon that a Cadillac would be much different. Quick and cheep to try before pulling the radiator.

Good luck Ed

[Marika]

Testing to see if these links work directly.

Testing to see if these links work directly.

Oh!!!, they sure do work!!

Sorry about the size!

OK, getting the old greyhound back tomorrow.

They replaced the entire radiator, the hoses and the oil lines going to and from the radiator since they were leaking badly as well.

$1,149.11

Officially, I'm broke now. Hope this car holds up.