bschelle Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 I have been trying to solve my no start problem. It only does it once in a while. Today I went to start it, after sitting overnight, and it just cranked and a short sputter. Shot some ether in it and it popped so I poured some gas down the TB and it fired and then died. More gas into the TB and it started and ran and I haven't had any problem for the rest of the day. When I turn the ignition on, without starting, the fuel pressure goes to 42#'s and after 3 seconds it slowly starts to go down, after about 5 minutes it is down to zero. When I start it the pressure stays at 38#'s and if I increase the idle it flucuates between 37 & 39#'s. Sometimes when I turn on the ignition the pressure remains at zero unless I turn it off and on a second time, then it won't do it again. No idea of how many times this happens but I tried it 10 times after the first try and the pressure always went up. I have replaced the FPR ,the BCM and all of the injectors with no change. All I can think of now is the fuel pump! Advise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 I have been trying to solve my no start problem. It only does it once in a while. Today I went to start it, after sitting overnight, and it just cranked and a short sputter. Shot some ether in it and it popped so I poured some gas down the TB and it fired and then died. More gas into the TB and it started and ran and I haven't had any problem for the rest of the day. When I turn the ignition on, without starting, the fuel pressure goes to 42#'s and after 3 seconds it slowly starts to go down, after about 5 minutes it is down to zero. When I start it the pressure stays at 38#'s and if I increase the idle it flucuates between 37 & 39#'s. Sometimes when I turn on the ignition the pressure remains at zero unless I turn it off and on a second time, then it won't do it again. No idea of how many times this happens but I tried it 10 times after the first try and the pressure always went up. I have replaced the FPR ,the BCM and all of the injectors with no change. All I can think of now is the fuel pump! Advise? Check the new FPR again by pulling the vacuum line when the fuel line is pressurized. The pressure should not go down so fast (in 5 minutes). You probably replaced the ECM not BCM. Any codes stored? Did you try to replace the fuel relay with known good one? You have some bad electrical contact most likely. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Sounds like the fuel pump is terminal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted May 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Checked the FPR by pulling off the vacuum line at idle and the pressure goes from about 37#'s to 42#'s and there is no leaking fuel. My mistake, I did replace the PCM/ECM. If I swap the relays what should the results be? And I do not have any codes. Called Pepboys and they want $40 to test if the pump is bad and $240 parts and labor to replace it. I said I am positive the pump is bad but they will not pass on the $40 diagnosis. Also said they would do a complete diagnosis for $85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted May 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 The new pump is in as of last week. This morning it failed to start again. I poured gas into it a couple of times before it stayed running. I was not able to hook up the pressure gauge but I will do it tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 When I turn the ignition on, without starting, the fuel pressure goes to 42#'s and after 3 seconds it slowly starts to go down, after about 5 minutes it is down to zero. Yours is different in ways I don't know, but on a Northstar the fuel pump will run for about 3 seconds and then shut down if you haven't started the engine. Fuel pressure should remain for a considerable length of time without bleeding down. If pressure drops in short order (and the FPR is good) it usually indicates a leak after the FPR; most often an injector (or maybe another leak). Do you think this might relate to your engine as well? Or were you talking about the DeVille? If it's the big guy, don't forget that a loss of ignition reference signal from the ICM will cause the PCM to shut off all eight injectors. I'd guess that would set a code though . . . . Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 An external leak caused by rusted fuel lines? Any smell of gasoline from under the car? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted May 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 This is my 91 Eldo. I can hear the new pump run and shut down when I hit the key. I put the gauge on it and it goes to 42#'s for a few seconds and then starts to go down pretty quick. I installed a set of rebuilt injectors and a new FPR also. The FPR does not leak when I pull the vacuum line off when it is running or after shutting it off. I do not see or smell any fuel leaking. When I take off from a stop, if I just accelerate slowly it feels like a old style accelerator pump hesitation. It churtles and then clears up and acts like it is finally getting enouigh fuel and produces more power. Hard acceleration is fine. If it is a bad injector I would think it would be a flooding condition at startup and not a case where I have to add gas to get it to fire. And would one bad injector or many cause the problem. Like I said they are rebuilts and there may be a bad one in the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 The fuel pressure situation may be a failed check valve in the pump and the falling fuel pressure is fuel retuning to the tank. I am not positive, but I have heard that a bad TPS will act like a bad accelerator pump on a carb. Then agin, it could be related to the fuel pressure. You need to get a pressure guage with a long hose on it, tape that guage to the windshield and watch the pressure while you drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted May 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I will do the gauge thing tonight. The pressure falling off did it with the old pump and now the new pump! Is the check vale part of the pump or a stand alone part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I believe the check valve is in the pump assembly. I didn't realize that you had a new pump in it. That being the case, I wouldn't suspect it being bad. See what that fuel pressure acts like when driving. Maybe that will give us a better clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 When I turn on the ignition and do not start I get 44#’s and when I let it idle 36#’s. On the road it goes from 36#’s cruising to 42#’s putting my foot in it. At shut down it drops from 44#’s to 17#’s in five minutes to 13#’s in another five minutes and down to 11#’s after ten more minutes. I quit checking after that. When I first turn the key and do not start it, it drops from 44#’s to 40#’s right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Those numbers don't seem to be too far out of line. The bleed down after shut down theoretically is not right but if it takes 5 min. then I would not think it is affecting starting. Have you ever shecked the pressure while you had the no start condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 No! Every time it happened I was without my pressure gauge. It is now kept in the trunk for the next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 No! Every time it happened I was without my pressure gauge. It is now kept in the trunk for the next time. keep the gauge in the car and it will never happen. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted May 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 No! Every time it happened I was without my pressure gauge. It is now kept in the trunk for the next time. keep the gauge in the car and it will never happen. Ain't that the truth!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted July 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 No! Every time it happened I was without my pressure gauge. It is now kept in the trunk for the next time. keep the gauge in the car and it will never happen. Ain't that the truth!! No start this morning!! Hooked up the pressure gauge and it was at 42#'s. Put some gas down the TB and after a couple of tries it fired and kept running just fine. Any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Check the wiring to the injectors. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 No! Every time it happened I was without my pressure gauge. It is now kept in the trunk for the next time. keep the gauge in the car and it will never happen. Ain't that the truth!! No start this morning!! Hooked up the pressure gauge and it was at 42#'s. Put some gas down the TB and after a couple of tries it fired and kept running just fine. Any other suggestions? That was a coinsidence. Your problem sounds rather electrical. Ignition module? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted July 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 The wiring is all good. The module will be my next try. Thanks for the replys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Pull the cap and check the distributor contacts and rotor. Look for carbon tracking, cracks, wear, corrosion on the contact, white crap, dampness. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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