Nikolai Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 I have a loud, humming/whistling noise that only comes on during cold starts. It's coming from the passenger side front I believe, and does not change with RPM increase. Stays on for about 2-3 minutes, I thought it may have been a stuck EGR valve or something but it's not. Anyone have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 A bad serp. belt tensioner? Bad pulleys? AC compressor? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 EGR is on the drivers side. Might be a bad idler or tensioner bearing that quiets down when the grease heats up a bit. Listen around with a stethescope or rubber hose to pin point it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted November 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 I'll check on those next time I start it up. Do you think I could just squirt some WD-40 on the back side of the pulley and see if it makes any difference? I guess after that I'll go ahead and try another belt. Good friend of mine owns a shop and I'll ask him if I can test the belt. I don't think it's the A/C compressor as the A/C works perfect. If the compressor was squealing, wouldn't it be associated with it not working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 WD40 is so thin that centrifical force will sling it right off. If you can get at the bearing "seals", sonmetimes you can pop them off with the tip of a small knife and repack the, assuming that the bearing is still good. Regarding the compressor, remember that there is a clutch that has a bearing in it which spins whether the compressor is running or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted November 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 WD40 is so thin that centrifical force will sling it right off. If you can get at the bearing "seals", sonmetimes you can pop them off with the tip of a small knife and repack the, assuming that the bearing is still good. Regarding the compressor, remember that there is a clutch that has a bearing in it which spins whether the compressor is running or not. Right, I understand the WD-40 thing, and the noise does not sound like the metal on metal noise like most A/C compressor clutch failures I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Nikolya, So what was the problem? Have you fixed it? Did you learn where is the EGR valve on a Northstar? And... could you please explain to me how the hell a stuck EGR valve makes "loud, humming/whistling noise"? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 I believe you are hearing the turbine in the generator whining....Happens to me nearly everyday once the outside temperature falls below X degrees. The manual indicates this noise is normal: "A high frequency whine or magnetic noise may be heard at full (generator) output and is normal"..However it happens to me EVERDAY when it is cold out...Can't help but think it is indicative of a grounding/electrical problem...and the generator is forced to run at full output to compensate ...Doesn't cold weather affect the charging system somehow? A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewdoggy Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 I believe you are hearing the turbine in the generator whining....Happens to me nearly everyday once the outside temperature falls below X degrees. The manual indicates this noise is normal: "A high frequency whine or magnetic noise may be heard at full (generator) output and is normal"..However it happens to me EVERDAY when it is cold out...Can't help but think it is indicative of a grounding/electrical problem...and the generator is forced to run at full output to compensate ...Doesn't cold weather affect the charging system somehow? my o1 dts does same thing but it shuts off same time the high idle shuts off, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 I believe you are hearing the turbine in the generator whining....Happens to me nearly everyday once the outside temperature falls below X degrees. The manual indicates this noise is normal: "A high frequency whine or magnetic noise may be heard at full (generator) output and is normal"..However it happens to me EVERDAY when it is cold out...Can't help but think it is indicative of a grounding/electrical problem...and the generator is forced to run at full output to compensate ...Doesn't cold weather affect the charging system somehow? Cold weather puts a strain on your charging system, you will notice that the charging rates in cold weather will be higher I believe this is due to increased resistence in the battery due to the cold. This statement is from the Exide battery site: Cold temperatures dramatically reduce the effectiveness of chemical reactions within the battery, while increasing the battery's internal resistance. Both of these cause a reduction in cranking power as temperatures drop. Batteries left in a discharged state are also susceptible to freezing, which damages internal components and containers. Cars require an increased amount of cranking power in cold weather, due to the fact that motor oil is thicker and makes engines harder to crank. See this article for interesting cold weather battery info: http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/us20310.htm Notice this statement in the above article under "Alternators and Starters" The lower the temperature, the higher the charging voltage, and the higher the temperature, the lower the charging voltage. The "normal" charging voltage on a typical application might be 13.9-15.1 volts at 77° F. But at -20° F, the charging voltage might be 14.9-15.8 volts. On a hot engine on a hot day, the normal charging voltage might drop to 13.5-14.3 volts. acklak7, I am glad you saw that statement in the manual that is interesting. But you might see if these alternators have a capacitor on them for the purposes of reducing noise that you are missing or need to replace. Is your alternator an OEM alternator? Your tranny was out last year if I recall. Did you get this whine before the tranny was out? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 acklak7, I am glad you saw that statement in the manual that is interesting. But you might see if these alternators have a capacitor on them for the purposes of reducing noise that you are missing or need to replace. Is your alternator an OEM alternator? Your tranny was out last year if I recall. Did you get this whine before the tranny was out? Not sure if the alternator is OEM or aftermarket, had the alternator bearing go bad about 4 years ago and it (alternator) was replaced at a Cadillac dealership, I assume it was OEM....Always heard that the dealerships MUST tell you if the part they are using is not a genuine OEM part...Could be wrong Reflecting back...Im fairly certain I heard the whine before the tranny was out, but I can't be sure. Before the rebuild I kept the Eldo in a heated garage. After the rebuild I had to keep the car outside, and once it got cold the noise became apparent. I will pay closer attention to the problem and post back..But I believe the noise only occurs at start up after the car has been sitting in cold weather overnight. It lasts for roughly 10-15 minutes, then goes away...I'm fairly certain that it will not whine again after the initial morning whine....Even if I let it sit for a few hours in cold weather...Could be wrong..I'll post back in a few days. For a long time I considered the problem to be either a timing chain problem or a alternator problem...And this is where the story gets interesting: So im sitting in the hot tub over winter break (in Florida)...Having a conversation about the "whine problem" with my Dad....I begin to explain how I think it might be the timing chain that is creating the noise, but it also could be the alternator...Then the guy sitting across from us remarks (out of the blue) "is it a GM car?"...I said "yea...N*" he responded " yeah...those chains will go for ever, rarely, if ever, do they fail"....He then went in-depth about why the alternator's can whine at full output, something analogous to the turbines on a hydro-electric plant or something. In conclusion he said it sounded like a potential battery issue, and that the alternator was trying to compensate somehow. Needless to say my dad and I were like "whoa.....this guy knows a few things about cars"..So we both took turns asking him questions about various item's...such as Tranny use/abuse, cold starts, engine life expectancy etc...And this guy knew it ALL..he gave answers in paragraph's..not sentences.....I swear it was just like talking 2 bbob!...So as we are leaving the tub I asked they guy how he came to know SO much about cars...Turns out he was the Shell Answer Man in the 70's in 80's! Anyway just wanted to share that...Guess the S.A.M was before my time..But my dad was pretty floored that we had met him. A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Is it whinning through the stereo or from the engine? I actually have a whine till it warms up also, and think my steering needs flushing along with a new filter. I am sure the fluids thicken up in the cold. My steering is sluggish when its cold also. That is pretty cool the Shell Answer Man! Bbob2! That's histerical, I was picturing you and your dad drilling this guy with quesitons.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Is it whinning through the stereo or from the engine? I actually have a whine till it warms up also, and think my steering needs flushing along with a new filter. I am sure the fluids thicken up in the cold. My steering is sluggish when its cold also. That is pretty cool the Shell Answer Man! Bbob2! That's histerical, I was picturing you and your dad drilling this guy with quesitons.... I'd almost bet he knows bbob..he did mention he worked extensively with GM...It was funny...When I went to ask him his name (before I knew he was the SAM) I thought to myself "what do you bet he says "B___"....Thought for sure he was the Guru himself! It's definitely whining from the Engine..You can't really hear it inside the car unless you roll down the windows ( I don't think..I'll check into that as well). Pinpointing the whine is difficult, but I would say it's coming from the general area of the power steering pump....However I mentioned this to the SAM and he said that it's probably the alternator sound waves bouncing off the Engine block or something...If you listen near the wheel well, it sounds more like it's coming from the area around the alternator. I'll pay closer attention to it in the next few days...But the whine doesn't go away when the Engine warms up...On the way home today it was still whining after about 10 minutes of driving and the Temp was @ 205...And it is not a normal whine..like a ungreased bearing or something..it is, as the manual states a HIGH frequency ringing whine..and it can be heard 70ft from the car. I can also add that I have had issues with voltage for a while now, with volts commonly dropping into the mid-high 12's during normal operation ( the SAM said this was not good and symptomatic of a electrical/battery problem). Before the site got hacked there was a post about grounding terminals under/behind the battery being corroded due to battery leakage. The author also had low-voltage problems, he replaced the corroded ground terminals and it resulted noticeable increase in voltage...The other day I noticed there is MAJOR corrosion in the battery compartment...My guess is im having the same problems that the other member was having...Tomorrow will be a "car" day.. and I should know for sure...BTW I think the other post im referring to got deleted A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 It could be your alternator and mine whining when the battery is cold due to the increased resistance in the battery due to the cold... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 It could be your alternator and mine whining when the battery is cold due to the increased resistance in the battery due to the cold... Yeah...I was originally thinking it was something along those lines, however I can't imagine it is normal, at least in my case. After 10 minutes of driving it is still whining, I find it hard to believe that this is common occurrence. When I went out to start it for the second time (today) no whine...and the engine temp was 94 degrees....Went fishing and about 2 hours later started it up and no whine....Again it seems to only happen in the morning after sitting overnight. My bet is the resistance is higher due to the cold temps...but there is an additional fault in the electrical system that is causing the problem...Im betting the ground terminals are corroded, which may cause insufficient supply of voltage to the battery? And since the battery is not getting enough voltage the generator has to run in overdrive until it finally receives a sustainable charge..would that scenario fit? (sorry not real good with electrical stuff..lol).....Anyone remember the thread detailing the corroded terminals? I believe the solution was to re-insert new screws/terminals into the body...but I could be wrong. A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Wait, it only happens on mine what the temps start dropping below 30 or so, the colder it gets the worse it gets. But once the car is warm it doesnt happen. I will pay more attention to it also. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunion Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 you need to immediately trade your caddy in on a 2006 DTS. hopefully when it full fields you will not notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I am sure a 2006 DTS would solve the problem, but What does FULL FIELDS mean? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 That would be maximum field current which produces maximum alternator voltage output, unregulated. Not good. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 you need to immediately trade your caddy in on a 2006 DTS. hopefully when it full fields you will not notice. That would be maximum field current which produces maximum alternator voltage output, unregulated. Not good. But Jim that is not what is happening when the battery is really cold is it? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I have not been paying attention to all the details of this thread, but different designs of alternators can produce different noises under certain conditions and it is all normal. For example, a high demand to re-charge the battery after a cold start can produce a singing noise in some alternators. In particular, alternators that use slip rings and brushes to deliver field current to the rotor. And even more pronounced when the slip rings get dirty with age. It is hard for my ears to distinguish between a cold alternator bearing/bushing noise and other engine noises with the hood open. Almost impossible with the hood closed. To answer your question Mike, it would be a very rare occasion for the alternator to see full field current under normal operating conditions, even for short periods of time. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 my sls does this it does it when you first start it up for the day until it gets fully warm orr up to speed for a while it will go away. ive also drivien a 99 sts taht done the same thing. i found the noise to be under that black plastic in take over by the power steering its some round thing housed inside of the black plastic intake. which i have heard the warp. we took some break parts cleaned and sprayed on it and the noise has went away for 3 days now. and i must note the car never done this until i got to about 80k miles on it. does anybody know what that black plastic thing maybe inside there ? michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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