Modified Intake Problem

[Webmast84]

Hey guys,

I've read a lot of posts on this forum and it's pretty awesome. My next thread will be about the modifications I want to pursue on the car. For info my car is a 1996 Seville STS.

Here's my current problem:

I recently purchased this item on eBay to in theory improve the car's performance:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=8011235932

The item doesn't look exactly like it does on the eBay photo (The piece that connects to the MAF is a blue rubber elbow. The metal pipe is straight and the air filter is not a cone. It's more of a cylindrical shape). When it's all put together it kinda sits in an almost free floating position. Third time I repositioned it I managed to get it in a stable spot though.

The first time I plugged it in I got the PC0101 error and I drove around the block like and came back because the performance was very lacking (acceleration hesitant and it just doesn't have the good performance i'm used to with it).

After I reconnected it the message went away (Diagnostic mode but PC0101 in history) and the performance was excellent. It seemed a bit better than the regular air box and filter (Gas mileage was awesome, the computer was reading 33-37mpg for my average driving to work). I made it all the way to work no problem. On the way back there was a spot where I needed to zoom into an open spot or suffer at the hands of a huge line of traffic in one of the lanes. As I did that I went above 2,500 RPMs and then the Service Emissions System notice popped up again. I noticed an immediate performance change when that message came up. I think it turns off the regulating of the air/fuel mixture and Fuel Injector/Spark timing to a fail safe mode(Enrichment).

Anyway, I purchased a Haynes Manual and read through that just for an overall knowledge of the car. Anyway, since then i've probably repositioned it 8 times or so (I've only driven it for about three days). The situation is that I can either reposition the the intake system and reconnect the IAT (Intake Air Tempurature Sensor) which was removed from the original air box and put into the new pipe. My last attempt to fix the problem was to reset the PCM codes via the diagnostic built into the car. This didn't fix the 2,500RPM problem.

Quick runthrough:

1. Replaced air intake box with air intake from eBay.

2. Performance problems happen at 2,500 RPMs or greater which put the system into enrichment mode because of PC 0101 code.

3. Reconnecting the new air intake to the MAF (Mass AirFlow Sensor/Throttlebody) fixes the code report/Service Engine Light problem(It's a solid service engine light and not blinking)

Any idea on what would be causing this? Here are some of the reasons I think it might be happening:

1. The connection of the rubber elbow piece has a small gap that doesn't make it all the way onto the MAF (I think it should be enough because of how tight I can get it on there)

2. Perhaps the IAT Sensor is not completely sealed? I dunno if that would cause a problem.

I need to get a new Digital Camera eventually. Here's a Diagram my Brother made of the new intake for me:

Any help would be awesome. I've seen some helpful stuff on this forum and site.

Thanks

[Scotty]

I read this a few times and I am missing something, you say this:

Any idea on what would be causing this?

CAUSING WHAT?

[Webmast84]

If I go above 2,500 RPM using the new intake the PCM will display service exhaust system and go into a sluggish mode. If I check the diagnostic codes it gives me this one:

PC0101

[Scotty]

Can you eliminate this by installing the old intake system? Have you tried that? If you can, that will help a lot. What are you saying about the MAF, is it being used with the new system?

On a side note, two things 1) I would not like this setup because you are sucking in hot under hood air, 2) the stock air box pulls air over the PCM for cooling purposes and with this setup you have eliminated that.

See how Bruce's Volant system eliminates those problems, but they don't make one for the 96 I don't think, http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=7437&hl=volant

Does this cone get oiled to improve its filtration like the K&N? If it does, you might want to do a search of K&N filters on this board the subject has been discussed in depth.

[Scotty]

By the way P0101 is:

P0101 - Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Performance

[navion]

I just read the EBay add for your intake. I notice that it includes a K&N filter as part of the kit.

If it was mine, I would remove it and sell it to someone else on EBay. As Scotty said, do a search on this site for comments on the K&N.

Even if it worked perfectly, I doubt that you could tell it on a drag strip. As a matter of fact, as Scotty said, it is now pulling hot air from the engine compartment. This will cause your performance to deteriorate.

There is not much that you can do to get noticeable gains from these engines with out incurring a driveability problem.

The K&N does not filter the air as efficiently as the stock unit either, so I would take that into account also.

Good Luck,

Britt

[Ranger]

It sounds like a self inflicted wound. I know you don't want to hear this and probably won't believe it but you are going through a lot of work for nothing. The only thing you will accomplish is making intake growl louder. This has been discussed (argued) many, many times. Scotty is correct about the hot under hood air as well as the PCM cooling.

BTW, the Haynes & Chiltons manuals are relatively uses for all but the most basic of repairs. Invest in a factory service manual from Helm Inc. if you plan on doing any real maintanence. It will more than pay for itself.

Best of luck and welcome to the forum.

[danbuc]

Open element air filters are notorious for creating problems with the MAF sensors on the N*. Some people have a rough idle, others have poor performance do to faulty signals being sent fomr the MAF sensor to the PCM. If I were a dealer and saw that on a new car, I would void the warranty immediately. Those open element filters do nothing but harm to these engines as well as performance. Ask your self this question....will you have better performance sucking in 80 degree air through the stock air box, or sucking in 200+ degree air from under the hood. If you need to think about this question for more than half a second, you don't belong under the hood of that car.

[Bob D]

I’ve been on this forum, and it’s first and second incarnation for some years now. Most everyone (and that’s a lot!) who has changed the air filter system to some custom job has had nothing but problems. At the minimum, zero gains, dyno proven. Usually losses. Trust the fact that the engineers who designed the original did a good job. Give them some credit, (and do yourself a favor) and put the stock system back in.

PS; Welcome to Caddyinfo

[JasonA]

To add to what others have said, I myself have tried an intake that looks very much like yours, but removed it after 2 weeks and put a real filter back on. The car runs best with the stock stuff on it.

[Webmast84]

I'm going to put the stock air box in until I can either make my own custom air intake box or put in a modified K&N box filter. The performance without the computer being happy is terrible.

[Devin O'Conor]

Most everyone (and that’s a lot!) who has changed the air filter system to some custom job has had nothing but problems.

Bob D. You are being mighty presumptuous and speaking for everyone.

Webmast84...there are plenty of us on this board who have tried similar intakes without problems.....with great success in fact. The intake alone doesn't make much difference but when combined with other mods, they compliment each other nicely.

Most likely, you need to clean the wires in the MAF sensor. You have to be very careful not to damage the wires but this will most likely fix the problem.

[JasonA]

Bob D. You are being mighty presumptuous and speaking for everyone.

Devin, you didn't read his message. He didn't speak for "everyone". He spoke for "most everyone", and it's a very accurate statement.

[Scotty]

Good pick up Jason

[Regis]

Bob D.  You are being mighty presumptuous and speaking for everyone.

Devin, you didn't read his message. He didn't speak for "everyone". He spoke for "most everyone", and it's a very accurate statement.

I'll second or third that assessment. By now this topic has become so repetitious that my head is beginning to spin. Most (yes most) people get it when a very knowledgeable person stated that the airbox assembly and it's components are more than adequate even with a dirty filter. He went on to say that this isn't necessarily the case for other vehicles but is so for the Northstar equiped cars.

Many of us have already tried the airbox/filter mods only to go back to the original setup. Some have utilized the experience of others and saved themselves money, time, and headaches. Then there are always the others that refuse to accept the findings of those before them believing that they have, somehow, discovered something that the ones before them have blindly missed.

In the end it's your car, your money, your time and effort. Do what you will but do us all a favor and read through the archives and research before posting that a certain after market filter gave you 20 extra HP.....because you can "feel and hear it".

[jackc]

All together now:

"We don't buy the 35 dollar 'performance enhancers' on eBay, we don't buy the 35 dollar 'performance enhancers' on eBay, we don't buy the 35 dollar 'performance enhancers' on eBay..........."

But if we do, of course we don't really expect them to work.

[Regis]

All together now:

"We don't buy the 35 dollar 'performance enhancers' on eBay, we don't buy the 35 dollar 'performance enhancers' on eBay, we don't buy the 35 dollar 'performance enhancers' on eBay..........."

But if we do, of course we don't really expect them to work.

Bahahahaaaa..... too funny. I'm still coughing.

[Webmast84]

lol

[scottshoe]

I think that installing a K&N filter in a modified airbox is the best set-up. I cleaned up the inside of my airbox (cut out the divider flap, smoothed the transition into the tube with a dremel, removed all burrs,etc) and then cut a 3" hole with a hole-saw in the bottom of the airbox and then in the same spot on the cover that surrounds the computer (being VERY careful not to hit the computer!) and then installed an "Airhog" filter. It made a huge difference as I installed Dynomax mufflers at the same time... The first WOT the computer didn't know what the heck to do and let the motor spin to like 7,200 RPM before shifting!!! Runs better now and gets better MPG too!