KHE Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 What exactally do you mean by the bleed line? Location, what it looks like etc? -jon It is the 3/8" line from the thremostat housing to the surge tank - this is the line that I told you about earlier. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 coolant comes out the system same as it went in...neon green. Nothing more, nothing less. What should i be looking for as far as combustion evidence Scotty? -jon You need to use the tester, if it is early in the game your coolant may not have visual evidence, I believe the tester finds hydrocarbons. I think the Guru said that at the beginning of a head gasket failure its heat from the combustion that begins to escape into the coolant and it superheats the water. As Kevin and I suggested however PLEASE check that bleeder line and follow what rollingthunder did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 ok, just got the car back, had to leave it overnight cuz it was overheating on the way back to school. Heres what i noticed when i picked it up. After letting it sit overnight, there was fluid on the ground under the surge tank in three spots. is it possible that a small leak in the system would cause the system to loose pressure and fail to cool occasionally? Or would it just overheat constantly? On the 22 mile trip back, it stayed around 199 for most of the time. No change in driving whatsoever and the temp would climb up to 223 and back down slowly, then a while later to 216 and back down slowly, pausing at 207-208 for a while and then back to 199. Anyway, I'm going to check the bleeder line. I did however have the entire thermostat housing off earlier this weekend and saw nothing in the relm of clogged lines. But I'll check, where else would you suggest looking? -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Check your tank and cap to be sure they hold pressure. We have seen tanks that leak ONLY under pressure. You should have someone pressurize your cooling system and see if it holds pressure and see what it turns up!!! Or you can buy a cooling system pump to pressurize it. As you know from your basic science days water boils at 212 degrees, under pressure it boils a lot higher (260 degrees at 15 PSI I believe). IF you system is NOT holding pressure your coolant will boil into the tank. FYI, Sears sells this pressure tester: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?...Specialty+Tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Find that leak and you may find your problem. Those tanks have been known to crack after time. I found a hairline crack in my '97 at the purge line nipple. It was invisible til coolant was flowing through it under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 excellent guys, thanks! I had to take my brothers Mazda Mx-6 back to school this week though cuz i ran out of time to work on the caddy. Miss those heated seats! Anyway, I dont have an AC Delco thermostat in the car, they replaced it with an oreilley's one. Im gonna pick on up from GM on tueday the 22nd and throw that in. to me that would make sense as to why it would be spiking ocasionally...if the thermostat was sticking or something, right? wouldnt a crappy thermostat cause the temp to fluctuate a lot? I took her on a test run on the highway right before i made the decision to take the mazda back to school. Same thing happened, ran cool for a while - 199-203 - then i turned around to head back about 5 miles down the highway. Gunned it, hit 100mph, coolant was hangin around 207 until i eased off the gas and it just shot up, took maybe 30-60 seconds and it was at 250 and climbin quick so i shut her off. Upon restarting the car, it displayed CHECK COOLANT LEVEL. I took an air compressor with low pressure and blew into that purge line you were talking about. I blew into the waterpump end, coolant shot me in the eye from the 3/8'' end that was from the surge tank...lol. Then i stuck the compressor in the part that lead around the left of the motor (firewall side) to the surge tank and felt it pressurize the waterpump end (had my thumb over it this time!). Couldnt tell if it was leaking anywhere cuz i had spilled so much coolant by then, it was dripping from everywhere. Anyway, it appers to be holding pressure for the most part, yet i do believe it may be leaking from that surge tank. is the surge tank a pain to take out, i noticed that there are AC parts in the area that may pose a problem as far as removing the surge tank.... Thanks a lot guys for all your imput, this forum impresses me more everyday! I love my caddy and I've only had her 2 weeks today, i really hope i can get her runnin strong and keep her... -Jon PS. My little bro works at sears! 10% discount! Oh ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 IF you system is NOT holding pressure your coolant will boil into the tank. Would I hear the coolant boiling after I shut the car off if this was the case? Maybe notice some leakage? -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 IF you system is NOT holding pressure your coolant will boil into the tank. Would I hear the coolant boiling after I shut the car off if this was the case? Maybe notice some leakage? -Jon Yes sometimes you can hear and have a boil over when the temp spikes like that, if you are less than a 50/50 mix. Have you heard any bubbling in the system when you are at 250? It may not be 100% correct to shut your car down when you hit 250 the next time, unless the temp continues to rise, I would just put the tranny selector in D and drop to 50 and let the air blow through the radiator. Putting the shifter in D will cause the RPM to pick up to circulate more water. When you turn your engine off, its much harder for the engine to cool itself off and the temps will spike even more while its off. It will also be interesting to see if your temps decrease back to normal if you stop pushing your engine. Pull over and lift the hood and see what you see, 1) look at the cooling fans, running not running?, are they both running fast and hard? 2) squeeze the upper radiator hose, is it hard or soft?, 3) look for leaks near the tank, on both sides of the radiator or around the water pump, 4) is the water pump belt turning?, 5) do I hear any boiling? 6) can anything or has anything blocked the air intake in front of the radiator, there is a flap that if not connected can block the radiator (just a shot in the dark). 7) do you see any steam? Report back what you find. I have had bad thermostats that bind and create spikes like yours but yours is new. Unless its not functioning correctly and poorly matched to your car I find it hard to believe that its the problem, but get it out anyway. Also, make sure you fill your cooling system correctly. Meaning, when you fill the tank, don't drive it hard immediately. Let it warm up to operating temp then cool down fully, they add more coolant once all of the air is expelled. If you have air left in your system it will cavitate at higher RPMs. Again you want to really look into that bleed line (post a new thread asking the procedure to checking the bleed line, I have never had a bleed line problem, but you need to make 100% sure yours is not blocking). A clogged bleed line won't allow air to escape nor will coolant circulate through it. If your brother works for Sears, I would pressurize your cooling system and see if you have any pressure leaks, its possible that your leak only manifests itself when the system pressure hits 16 psi and then it lets off pressure and coolant. I could see the radiator side tanks being susceptible to this, the coolant would be so hot that it would vaporize in the air stream as soon as it was released. You say you only have this car for 2 weeks, who did you buy it from? Have you spoken to them to see if it overheated for them? How soon after you bought it did this start? How much did you pay? Can you return it? You are new to this car and new to this board. This is a meeting of the minds sort of a brainstoming process. You have to follow the steps we outline for you and follow them closely and most importantly report back your findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 We need to know 1) the coolant concentration 2) If the system holds pressure 3) get rid of that thermostat so we don't guess (good point Kger2) 4) and you need to ensure that the bleed line is clear The problem you are having is CLASSIC head gasket failure, it costs about $2,500 to repair. If you were sold this car in this condition, if it needs a head gasket, you need to run back PRONTO. Was this a dealer or an individual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 As you know from your basic science days water boils at 212 degrees, under pressure it boils a lot higher (260 degrees at 15 PSI I believe). IF you system is NOT holding pressure your coolant will boil into the tank. Pure water will have 260 boiling point under some 30-40 psi. It is the antifreeze what allows the mix to have a higher boiling point under 15psi. The equation is not linear and I do not recall it at the moment. Just for reference: 1psi = 0.068 Atmospheres (do not confuse with 1 Bar)so that 15 psi = 1.02 Atmospheres (775.2 mm Hg) The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Anyway, I dont have an AC Delco thermostat in the car, they replaced it with an oreilley's one. Im gonna pick on up from GM on tueday the 22nd and throw that in. Why would you wait until the 22nd to get the proper thermostat??? Go out and pick one up instead guessing about this or that. The wrong or improper thermostat will cause all kinds of problems. I think all this guessing is a waste of time when I believe it was suggested on the first page to make sure it was a delco thermostat. The AC Delco (original) thermostat has a unique design and shape to it. Pick one up and compare it to the after market one you have. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 From time to time I test my thermostat in the morning while driving. I just watch the temps on the DIC. They go up say, from 50 to some 200 and then sharply drop to some 170 (that's when the stat opens) and later stabilize at 186 ( I use a cooler stat given me by Scotty). Things may be different on Northstar though. Touching the upper radiator hose is another way to test the stat. p.s. I call "morning" the time I wake up . I am self employed. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Anyway, I dont have an AC Delco thermostat in the car, they replaced it with an oreilley's one. Im gonna pick on up from GM on tueday the 22nd and throw that in. Why would you wait until the 22nd to get the proper thermostat??? Go out and pick one up instead guessing about this or that. The wrong or improper thermostat will cause all kinds of problems. I think all this guessing is a waste of time when I believe it was suggested on the first page to make sure it was a delco thermostat. The AC Delco (original) thermostat has a unique design and shape to it. Pick one up and compare it to the after market one you have. I wont be home to work on the car until the 22nd. I have thanksgiving break then. I'm at a military academy working on my commission in the Army right now so i rarely get out. Makes this DIY stuff more diffifcult, not having the kinda time i need.... The concentration is 50/50 and I'm sure that bleeder/purge line is clear, blew a metric poop load of air through it, its good to go. Thermostat will be next then I'll pressurize the system and check for leaks. -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 The problem you are having is CLASSIC head gasket failure, it costs about $2,500 to repair. If you were sold this car in this condition, if it needs a head gasket, you need to run back PRONTO. Was this a dealer or an individual? I did get the car from a dealer in Kansas City, MO. The car was sold As Is. No warranty, nothing... It overheated on the 30 mile trip back to my school right after i bought it, but i assumed that was because it was low on coolant, so i filled it up and drove back to school. I know there is three day window to go back on a contract but I didnt even see the car for a week after i bought it cuz we dont get to use our cars at this military school very often. Anyway, is a headgasket a DIY job? I've torn engines apart before and I'm the kinda guy that wouldnt mind working 18 hour days under the hood of a car, just wondering if i could fix this myself for a more reasonable price, i only paid 2800 for the car. -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Jon, if you are mechanically inclined it can be done. But I would not call this an easy job at all. Replacing head gaskets on cast iron engines is not a big deal, replacing the head gaskets on an aluminum engine is involved. While some have done the head gaskets with the engine in the car, you should drop the carriage or pull the engine to make the time-sert job easy. You will need to time-sert the engine. Do a search on time-sert or timesert. A few here have done the time-sert / head gasket job successfully and I tip my hat to them, its a bear of a job. I can see me doing the job one day but I am not looking forward to it that's for sure. Lets not cross that bridge till you have too. Call them back and tell them that you have JUST realized that the car may have a serious problem that reared its ugly head on the ride home from their shop. Chances are they will know the car had a problem. Ask them about the car's history, where did they get it? Typically Cadillac dealers DO NOT sell cars this old. Was this a Cadilllac dealer or a Used Car Dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 used car dealer, wholesale dealership north KC, Choeteau Auto Mall or something. Heres the Link to the dealership. Seemed like a shady place to me, but the price was good and the car ran well when i took it for a drive. Thanks guys! -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Depending upon how they got the car, its possible that they did not know there was a problem. I would call anyway since they are so big and let them know that the repair job ranges from $2,200 to $3,000 on this car. If they balk at that tell them that the engine must come out and the engine head bolt holes must be timeserted. And refer them to this thread. IF you have a head gasket problem, since you overheated driving the car home from the dealer and it overheated, you MAY have purchased the car with a leaking headgasket. You should contact Cadillac and see if they have any history on this car in their computer, you may be surprised to find out they have knowledge of this problem and someone decided to just trade it in instead of getting it fixed, who knows.. http://www.timesert.com See this also http://www.timesert.com/html/gm.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Ok, did the pressure test, rear bank(closest to the firewall) the head gasket is bad... sad story. So what now? -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Ok, did the pressure test, rear bank(closest to the firewall) the head gasket is bad... sad story. So what now? -Jon Can you explain to me what you mean by pressure test in detail. Did you pressurize the cooling system or did you do a compression test? I need you explain yourself in MUCH more detail than you are doing. How did you know it failed or that there is a problem? Details man, details...we need more info.. Was it leaking water when you pressurized it, IF you pressurized it, maybe it was coming from the pipe in the rear... If you did a compression test what were the results. DID you call the place you bought it from? What are they going to do about it? WHat was the result of that call? If I were you I would be raving mad, that I bought a car with a blown head gasket. Can you fill us in. OR would you rather I just respond with: TIMESERT IT If you think it would be easier to speak on the phone I will send you my cell phone number... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Pressurized the indivual cylinders. The rear bank, second from the right (when your facing the car) what the culprit. Pressurized it to 120psi and the surge tank overflowed. Cell number would be nice. -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Pressurized the indivual cylinders. The rear bank, second from the right (when your facing the car) what the culprit. Pressurized it to 120psi and the surge tank overflowed. Cell number would be nice. -Jon Thanks Jon, thats not good as you already know. Have you attempted to see if the seller will help? I will send my cell to you in the AM, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 OUCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Pressurized the indivual cylinders. The rear bank, second from the right (when your facing the car) what the culprit. Pressurized it to 120psi and the surge tank overflowed. Cell number would be nice. -Jon You have definitely confirmed that you have a bad headgasket but it is not the end of the world. jhall replaced his headgaskets and timeserted the block. Search his posts - he even provided a parts list. If you do not have a factory service manual, that's the first purchase you should make. You will also need a torque angle meter and a decent collection of mechanics tools. Buy the gaskets and head bolts from GM. Keep us posted. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted November 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Ok, ordered shop manuals. Im doing this one myself. I need some info though.. 1. Can I pull the engine out of the top? 2. Could I have a shop pull the motor for me, then I move it all, do the work and have the put it back in? 3. What special tools will I need? Any info you guys have would be nice, I wanna start getting my stuff together for this job before I start it. I wanna start in 2 weeks. I have a month, can it be done in a month? I have more time, spring break and summer, but it would be nice to know if I could do it in a months time. -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Note that I did not put them in any particular order, these are members that have timeserted their engine and there is a lot of info. See these threads for a start: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...616&hl=timesert http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6602&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6273&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6072&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6555&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6512&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4796&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5966&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4939&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=459&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3539&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1665&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2894&hl= http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2894&hl= Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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