terrylange Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 Took my '01 DTS into the dealership for their $129.95 coupon special for a 4 wheel alignment. They called today, and haven't quite figured out whether it is worth doing yet, since they claim there is some minor play in both rear hubs, and the right front hub. Estimate to repair is $2000.00, although they will advise me tomorrow whether this is an absolute necessity in order to properly do the alignment. Is this typical wear at 77K? I checked the prices on rockauto.com and gmparts direct.com, and the replacement ac delco parts total around $710.00 to $750.00 with shipping for the three corners. Is any of this a DIS project? If not, how receptive are most Caddy dealerships to customer supplied parts? Has anyone known a dealership to match or come close to these prices in order to get the sale? Not real happy with them so far, as I also asked them to diagnose a cruise control system that wouldn't engage. For all their fancy diagnostic tools, they have given up and are now throwing parts at it in the hopes of stumbling across the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 Took my '01 DTS into the dealership for their $129.95 coupon special for a 4 wheel alignment. They called today, and haven't quite figured out whether it is worth doing yet, since they claim there is some minor play in both rear hubs, and the right front hub. Estimate to repair is $2000.00, although they will advise me tomorrow whether this is an absolute necessity in order to properly do the alignment. Is this typical wear at 77K? I checked the prices on rockauto.com and gmparts direct.com, and the replacement ac delco parts total around $710.00 to $750.00 with shipping for the three corners. Is any of this a DIS project? If not, how receptive are most Caddy dealerships to customer supplied parts? Has anyone known a dealership to match or come close to these prices in order to get the sale? Not real happy with them so far, as I also asked them to diagnose a cruise control system that wouldn't engage. For all their fancy diagnostic tools, they have given up and are now throwing parts at it in the hopes of stumbling across the solution. Sounds to me like a usual stealership's BS. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 If not, how receptive are most Caddy dealerships to customer supplied parts? Has anyone known a dealership to match or come close to these prices in order to get the sale? My local dealership has said before that they have to install a customer-supplied part if it's an ACDelco part. They can refuse if you bring Moog suspension parts to them, but if you buy genuine GM parts, they have to do it for the cost of labor. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 I would get a second opinion before throwing parts at it...especially to the tune of $2000........ Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 Terry, Other then the coupon what was your reason for having an alignment done? "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 I hate the stories I hear about dealers. Let me ask you, have they offered you a better deal yet for a new car? Send out the hook of the very nicely priced 4 wheel alignment and reel them in... Instead of putting $2000 into a new car sir, consider putting down $4000 and driving out in a new DTS for less per month.... Think your car may get the GM Certified stamp of approval? Maybe if it was a 2003..so it will go out to the used car lot. How does $700 in parts equate to $2000 in bill. The job just is not THAT difficult especially the rear. I guess they are banging you much more than $700 for the parts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 I had a couple of Chevy Blazers that eat fuel pumps. On one occassion I had a local dealer do the job but was convinved that the GM pumps were bad so I supplied a Napa pump. They installed it, but of coarse would not warranty it. I suspect they are nottoo happy with that situation as they have a huge mark up on parts, as we all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrylange Posted November 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 kger2, the reason for the 4 wheel alignment was that the car was "wandering" once I got a new set of Cooper tires put on it. I have been assured on this board that Cooper manufactures a quality tire, and that the problem must be alignment related. I will get a breakdown from the dealer today on parts, part #'s and labor. I also suspect that the high price quote will end up being due to their astronomical mark up on parts. The other thing that makes me question what the service writer told me yesterday, is that most front end shops won't even attempt an alignment on a car if there is excess play in any existing components. It seemed odd to me that this Caddy dealership "isn't sure, yet" whether they should do the alignment. I would think they would be more inclined to try and scare me into ordering the parts by saying the wheels were about to fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 kger2, the reason for the 4 wheel alignment was that the car was "wandering" once I got a new set of Cooper tires put on it. I have been assured on this board that Cooper manufactures a quality tire, and that the problem must be alignment related. I will get a breakdown from the dealer today on parts, part #'s and labor. I also suspect that the high price quote will end up being due to their astronomical mark up on parts. The other thing that makes me question what the service writer told me yesterday, is that most front end shops won't even attempt an alignment on a car if there is excess play in any existing components. It seemed odd to me that this Caddy dealership "isn't sure, yet" whether they should do the alignment. I would think they would be more inclined to try and scare me into ordering the parts by saying the wheels were about to fall off. How many miles have you done with new tires? Last time I put new tires on my car they "kept the road" so poorly that I was ready to return to the shop to have them removed...Things improved in a couple of long trips. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 Aside from their high price for parts, dealers often charge nearly twice what most independent shops charge for their labor. If your car is wandering since you put new tires on it, I would have it checked by a good independent alignment shop. (Likely the people you bought the tires from can do it.) If some of your suspension parts are worn, they will tell you and can probably replace them before doing the alignment. A good independent shop should be able to do the job right for a whole lot less than your dealer. It isn't rocket science, after all! Happiness is owning a Cadillac with no codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 Even though Cooper does produce a quailty tire, any manufacturing process can produce a gimp. If there was a drastic difference in handling/driving before/after the new tires, have your tire shop carefully inspect the tires for separated belts or a damaged carcass. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 This appears to be a standard Eldorado. Is it possible that the old tires were H or V rated tires and the new tires are not speed rated standard tires? (R or S rated). I have seen this happen where someone went from a Z rated to a non rated tire and the car's handling degraded badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 A friend of mine who used to own a service station repair shop and is now a car dealer told me years ago that when places run alignment specials business is slow & all they want to do is get people in so they can sell them more parts. Sounds like its still true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 A friend of mine who used to own a service station repair shop and is now a car dealer told me years ago that when places run alignment specials business is slow & all they want to do is get people in so they can sell them more parts. Sounds like its still true. Yes but he said his car was wandering SINCE he got tires, so something changed. The question is what changed.. Maybe the tires are defective somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Yes but he said his car was wandering SINCE he got tires, so something changed. The question is what changed.. Maybe the tires are defective somehow? Exactly. Since things changed after the installation of the new tires it seems reasonable that it might either be a defective tire, out of balance tire, and or a couple/few lug nuts being loose. Am I missing anything else? Of course there is always the outside chance that the car wasn't lifted properly...... oh boy. I've had that happen to me a time or two..... scary. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrylange Posted November 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Thanks again for all the input. This is what makes this board so great. When I didn't hear from the dealer all day again today (day #3), I called them to see what was going on. Aside from the fact that the cruise control cable still wasn't in, they said the car was ready, including the alignment. No further mention of the "alignment problems." When I picked it up, there was a notation on page 1 of the invoice stating "rear hub and bearings and right front loose, recommend replacement $1980.00 (direct quote) and on page 2, "wheel bearings have play rr, lr, rf, advisor aware." Apparently not serious enough to cause them to refuse to do a 4 wheel alignment. End result is that the car still drives the same (wanders.) I'll take Adallak's advice and take my 800 mile round trip this weekend and hope the new tires "work themselves in." The other interesting notation on the work order is that "all tires have 10/32 remaining." What does that mean? There is less than 400 miles on them since installation! Interesting side note is that they charged me $25.00 for an oil change, lube and filter that I didn't ask for. I had changed the oil and filter myself two days before taking the car to them. When I pointed the error (and waste of oil) out to them, they removed it from my bill. Unfortunately, I do not have an invoice for the new tires installed by the previous owner as a condition of sale, so I probably don't have much recourse as far as getting a Cooper tire dealer to re-examine the tires for possible factory flaws. The other possibility is that I am trying to compare the ride and handling of this 2001 DTS to my previous 1997 Deville. I anticipated a difference of some sort, but didn't expect that this car would require so much more effort to aim down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hud Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Terrylange-If you happen to get to the Ventura area, I can recommend Associated Tire to do your alignment. They have been doing alignments and front end work on my cars for the past 20 years and they do a great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 The other possibility is that I am trying to compare the ride and handling of this 2001 DTS to my previous 1997 Deville. I anticipated a difference of some sort, but didn't expect that this car would require so much more effort to aim down the road. The 2001 should handle better not worse. Do me a favor, post the model, size including speed rating of the Cooper Tires. In 1991 I had a Nissan 240SX. It came with Toyo tires. Before I sold it in 1993, I replaced the tires with Goodyears of the proper size. Coming home the car was ALL OVER the highway, AND I got into an accident when the traffic stopped ahead of me and the brakes locked up easily. Look toward the tires, they may be underinflated, the wrong speed rating, or just inferior for your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 The other interesting notation on the work order is that "all tires have 10/32 remaining." [snip] Unfortunately, I do not have an invoice for the new tires installed by the previous owner as a condition of sale, so I probably don't have much recourse as far as getting a Cooper tire dealer to re-examine the tires for possible factory flaws. The dealer measured the tread depth of the tires, and found them to be 10/32". That's what most passenger car tires have when new. Nothing unusual there. I thought you purchased the tires, but apparently you didn't? I would still take it to a Cooper dealer -- they should stand behind the tires if there's a mechanical problem with them. The other thing I didn't think of until now is perhaps the tire installer somehow damaged the wheel bearings when he installed the tires. Perhaps your dealer is right and there's a lot of "play" in the bearings (although I'm not sure what that means) and this was done by the tire installer? Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMDTS Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 10/32 is your thread depth which is good. You really can't compare an 01 dts to a 97 Dev 2 very different handling cars The dts is going to wander much more so than the 97 you have bigger tires and wheels the car is going to go with the road. IF the road surface leans toward to right the car is going to go right .The dts is more responsive than a regular 97 dev. I don't think the play in your hubs has anything to do with your problem or it sounds like you have no probelm. The cooper tires are very responsive it does not take much steering imput to make your car wander. These are not a car that you are going to let go of the wheel and go straight down the road unlees that road is straight and level and most roads are not. If your car has 400 miles on the tire they are already worked in. That usually takes well under 50 miles to do. My car is in alignment and I always have one hand on the wheel to correct the steering imputs. These are a car you either love or hate as far as handling.The michelins I have on now are less responsive than the cooper tires which is a negative to me..Try to find a known straight and level road and your car will stay straight but any little bump, crack ,expansion joint in the road is going to throw you off course and cause yor car to follow the lean in the road. wander as you call it. It is possible that you have a bad set of tires but you could always have them checked out but it sounds like you have no problems..Check your tire air pressure make sure they are all the same 30 to 32psi cold should work fine I can feel when the tires have a 3 or 4 psi split these cars have a decent suspension and you feel more road imputs than in your previous dev.. Good Luck Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 .... The other possibility is that I am trying to compare the ride and handling of this 2001 DTS to my previous 1997 Deville. I anticipated a difference of some sort, but didn't expect that this car would require so much more effort to aim down the road. I made the same observation with my '04 DTS compared to the '98 STS. Took it back to the dealer and one tire was replaced and all 4 balanced. Did not make any difference. Any little road surface irregularity would steer the front end and those grooves for water run-off would cause it to change lanes (almost!). Spent a few hours doing my own little investigation. Removed each wheel and cleaned the rust/corrosion from the wheel to rotor contact surface as well as the wheel contact surface on the rotor. Surprised me to find one lug nut that required approximately 130 lb ft to remove and a dealer tech was the last person to have the wheels off the car. Wheels back on with proper lug tightening sequence and 100 lb ft torqued by hand (no power tools). Big improvement. The DTS still requires more driver input at Interstate speeds than my STS, but my bride says they drive exactly the same. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 This really is an apples to apples comparison however, his is comparing handling of this 2001 DTS to his previous 1997 Deville, both are Deville class vehicles. I think they should handle comparably, and I feel strongly that the 2001 DTS should handle better than his 97 Deville... Now comparing the DTS or Deville to an STS, thats apples and well, watermelons comparison, and the STS should trounce the DTS/Deville in the handling category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 terrylange, Your first post implied direct connection between the new tires and change in ride quality. Now it looks like you bought the car with new tires installed and had compared compared the ride to your other car... This is totally different situation. The new tires might be not the culprits after all. Oil changed two days ago is still pretty clean and they should have seen it. Visit tirerack.com. You'll find a lot of useful info about tires, balance, alignment etc. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Tell me if I'm crazy but we seem to be getting off the path to fixing Terry's problem. I believe he stated that he had this wandering issue only after having the new Cooper tires installed. Eye on the ball and let's try not to confuse everyone reading this thread. Am I wrong when i say that the most likely culprits are either a tire (defect), improper installation, or lug nuts being on too tight or too loose or even missing? EDIT Well I take back everything I just said after rereading Terry's last post. That adds a confusing twist to this whole story now. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Good point adallak, i just saw this: Unfortunately, I do not have an invoice for the new tires installed by the previous owner as a condition of sale, so I probably don't have much recourse as far as getting a Cooper tire dealer to re-examine the tires for possible factory flaws. The other possibility is that I am trying to compare the ride and handling of this 2001 DTS to my previous 1997 Deville. Terry previously said this: kger2, the reason for the 4 wheel alignment was that the car was "wandering" once I got a new set of Cooper tires put on it. I have been assured on this board that Cooper manufactures a quality tire, and that the problem must be alignment related. Now I am confused, this contradiction has blown the integrity of this thread. I was under the impression that ONCE you changed to Coopers, YOU felt a difference in the cars handling from the previous tires.. I have asked repeatly for the Coopers MODEL, SIZE and SPEED rating, and air pressure. Furthermore, what tires were on the 97 DEVILLE and what was the size and speed rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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