Cleaning Throttle Body

[Scotty]

I looked for the post and could not find it, someone said they keep their TB open to clean it by putting something on the accelerator pedal and wedging it up against the seat.

This is what I do. Not only does the rag keep the TB open but it catches excess solvent... With the TB open like this, I can focus on scrubbing the dirty side without struggling with it.

[adallak]

I used to put a stick between BRAKE pedal and the seat and move it to bleed the brakes. I do not recommend that method though.

As far as TB is concerned I put a piece of wine bottle cork between the ISC motor plunger and the lever to keep it wide open. Works very well and you have full access to th eTB and its elements.

[epricedright]

oooooh...that's dirty!

[Scotty]

I used to put a stick between BRAKE pedal and the seat and move it to bleed the brakes. I do not recommend that method though.

As far as TB is concerned I put a piece of wine bottle cork between the ISC motor plunger and the lever to keep it wide open. Works very well and you have full access to th eTB and its elements.

That's a good idea, do you drink the wine before or after the job?

[Scotty]

oooooh...that's dirty!

It's definately is dirty, I need to work on it again tomorrow. That carbon is like gum...

[epricedright]

Toothbrush works great.

But knowing you, I'm sure you have a Snap-On or Blachhawk TB cleaner.

[adallak]

I used to put a stick between BRAKE pedal and the seat and move it to bleed the brakes. I do not recommend that method though.

As far as TB is concerned I put a piece of wine bottle cork between the ISC motor plunger and the lever to keep it wide open. Works very well and you have full access to th eTB and its elements.

That's a good idea, do you drink the wine before or after the job?

I drink the wine before, during and after the job. I have to finish the bottle since the cork is not reusable.

[epricedright]

Hey Adallak, I was just curious, did that ISC controller I returned to you work ok for you?

[Scotty]

I used to put a stick between BRAKE pedal and the seat and move it to bleed the brakes. I do not recommend that method though.

As far as TB is concerned I put a piece of wine bottle cork between the ISC motor plunger and the lever to keep it wide open. Works very well and you have full access to th eTB and its elements.

That's a good idea, do you drink the wine before or after the job?

I drink the wine before, during and after the job. I have to finish the bottle since the cork is not reusable.

There you go!

[adallak]

Hey Adallak,  I was just curious, did that ISC controller I returned to you work ok for you?

Yes it does (fingers crossed).

[epricedright]

Hey Adallak,  I was just curious, did that ISC controller I returned to you work ok for you?

Yes it does (fingers crossed).

That's good!

I guess that confirms they weren't interchangeable.

[Scotty]

Toothbrush works great. 

But knowing you, I'm sure you have a Snap-On or Blachhawk TB cleaner.

Nope just good ole elbow grease and GM upper engine cleaner.. I need to pull the throttle body off altogether during the winter and clean the hell out of it. I cleaned my 91's TB with my dremel tool and polished the throat with it, that's a great tool.

I want to dip it in a carburator cleaner solvent once I remove all of the sensors.

I was big on rebuilding carburators in my youth, that was a favorite thing for me to do (I know I am odd). But from my experience, rebuilding the carburator was a BIG bang for the buck and solved a multitude of problems... I really enjoyed the adjustment process. The solvent that I used, you put the parts in a basket and submerged them. The carburator came out like new. These days with the environment, that solvent is very expensive to buy. I would need to make sure that its safe for o2 sensors however.

[Scotty]

As I thought Carb Cleaner WAS nasty stuff, see this quote WOW no wonder it got expensive:

http://www.powerchutes.com/bing2.asp

You'll need a gallon jug of carburetor cleaner to give the metal parts of

the carb a good cleaning. Basically you dunk the metal carb parts in a

bath of carb cleaner and leave them there for about ten minutes. The carb

cleaner is a VERY powerful solvent, and will dissolve any gunk that may

have accumulated in the nooks and crannies of the carb.

WARNING!!! Carb cleaner is a VERY powerful solvent. Its active ingredient

is methylene chloride; the same stuff they use to strip paint, and you

don't want to fool around with this stuff. IT IS NASTY! Don't get it on

your skin, or in your eyes, or on your clothes. It will give you bad

chemical burns in no time.

Rubber gloves and safety goggles are an absolute must when working with

carb cleaner!

Rubber gloves and safety goggles are an absolute must when working with

carb cleaner!

Did I mention that rubber gloves and safety goggles are an absolute must

when working with carb cleaner?

The fumes from carb cleaner are just as nasty as the liquid, so don't use

it in a room that doesn't have excellent ventilation. Better still, don't

use it in a room at all; take it outside in the back yard.

Turn on the garden hose before you even open the can of carb cleaner. Then

if you accidently spill some on yourself, or get it in your eyes, then you

can instantly flood yourself with water. It would also be a good idea to

have somebody around, for safety, while working with carb cleaner, just in

case you have an accident with it.

THIS STUFF IS NASTY!

[Scotty]

Anyone know of a good O2 safe parts cleaner in a convenient DIY container, say 2 gallons?

[acecadillac]

I looked for the post and could not find it, someone said they keep their TB open to clean it by putting something on the accelerator pedal and wedging it up against the seat.

This is what I do. Not only does the rag keep the TB open but it catches excess solvent... With the TB open like this, I can focus on scrubbing the dirty side without struggling with it.

What is the benefit of cleaning the throttle body? I presume if the throttle sticks?

[Scotty]

Yes that is one reason, sometimes you will feel the gas pedal stick or snap open, that is caused by carbon around the throttle plate and it sticks in the throttle bore.

Another reason to clean it is because its unable to close due to carbon deposits and the idle doesn't return to normal at say a light, etc. This is the main reason I clean it.

However here is a terrific 'report' by our guru that explains very nicely how the TB works and the whys and wherefor's of cleaning it and why the system must be 'rebooted' (disconnect the battery). I am going to post the entire thread that I previously saved, so of this 'report' is applicable and some is not, but its all good information. It was about doing an idle learn procedure. Mike

The air rate thru the throttle body when the blades are closed establishes the idle speed. As deposits build up around the blades and in the bore the air rate is slowly decreased as the deposits effectively seal up the gap around the blade. If this went unchecked the engine would idle slower and slower and eventually stall. To prevent this the idle speed control continually "sees" the extra gain required to overcome deposits. This gain slowly increases with time and miles as the deposits increase. This gain or offset is what is "learned" and retained for the next ignition cycle. The learned gain is different for neutral idle, in gear idle and AC on idle due to the different loads on the engine. The idle learn can only increase...it cannot decrease. It is not in the programming for it to decrease. So, idle learns will always be a positive addition to the throttle angle required for the proper idle speed control initially upon returning to idle. If the deposits are great then the idle learn offsets will be large. Suppose the learns are very large due to lots of miles and heavy deposits...then the battery is disconnected and the learns are lost and reset to the clean throttle body values.....the car could (and probably would) stall the first few times it was driven when the throttle was released. It would do this until the idle learn values were re-learned or re-established with the dirty throttle body. So.....that is why there is an admonishion in the owners manual and in the service manual to always go thru the idle learn procedure when the battery is disconnected.... It is a safety caveat.

If the throttle body is clean then the idle learns will "learn" nothing as the default values of a battery reset is for a clean throttle body. So...if you clean the throttle body, disconnect the battery. If you don't, the first few times you drive the car the throttle will seem to "hang" open and the engine will idle fast when you first close the throttle. That is because the idle learns retained are accounting for heavy deposits...that aren't there anymore. Simple. No magic. Disconnecting the battery resets them to the clean values. Haven't you seen/read this phenomenon reported about one hundred times on the forum..??..."I cleaned my throttle body now my car idles too fast..." Put two and two together here.

The reason it is in the owners manual and written in that simple language is twofold. It is a (potential) safety issue with possible stalling involved. Not everyone gets their throttle body cleaned each time the battery is disconnected. Owners manauls are written at the 3rd grade level. No one would read all the above explaination of when and when not the idle learn procedure is applicable....so....it just says to do it all the time.

The idle speed control is going to function correctly given a little driving the same whether the idle learn procedure is done or not. Do you suppose the idle learn is done when the car was new at the factory....???....NO. It was just driven as the throttle body was clean and the idle learn default values matched that condition.

The simple answer to your question is that when cleaning the throttle body all that is required is to disconnect the battery. Period. Doing the idle learn is not going to hurt anything. But it is not going to help anything either.

[Matt]

First off a great big Hi to all. Some may not realize it but I Have been here a lot, I just can not add to much since there are so many smarter then I here . I have been doing tons of reading though. Now to the bennifits of cleaning the throttle body and rodding out the EGR tubes. Once again I just did mine as per instructions from Scotty months and months ago. After Scotty found my replacement 4.9L in the begining of the year,I did up the intake and it purred like a kitten and runs like a lion. Just recently I noticed it had a bit of a rough idle, it did not look to dirty but I did a full cleaning and rodded out the EGR tubes again. It did not seem to me like much grime was on or in anything, but after doing the full job, includeing making sure nothing got into the EGR passage and could head to the EGR valve and then doing a re-learn all was as smooth as anything again. (knock on wood) It's amazing how little grime can change things. I keep a better eye on that from now on. I would not have learned any of this if it was not for you guys here. I'm back to Sunoco 94 again, the prices are down to $2.73 again. My timing is at 8-Deg but maybe I should try 10, am not sure.. My last trip was about 23. something MPG but I have a very heavy foot. Back to reading.. Go get em guys...

[Scotty]

Glad all is fine Matt... I spoke to Scott yesterday, he is supplying lower control arms for Kger2.... Take it easy, Mike

PS, you are a motorcycle guy, how the hell do these riders pull the motorcycle up on the rear wheel, stand and then drive without loosing control of it? I get sick everytime I see that

[Ranger]

PS, you are a motorcycle guy, how the hell do these riders pull the motorcycle up on the rear wheel, stand and then drive without loosing control of it? I get sick everytime I see that

I saw a guy do that one night on the Ill. Toll road. He was going in the oposite direction so after he passed me I had to watch in the rear view mirror, but I swear he stayed on that rear wheel for every bit of 1/2 mile, accelerating all the time. I though I was going to witness a death......... eh, make that a suicide.

[Matt]

Hey Scotty, I'll tell ya what, I do not know-I do not want to know-I want never to do that. All kidding a side, these bikes are so darn powerfull It's all you can do under heavy exceleration to keep the front wheel on the ground. The Kawai Ninja 6RR will pull the front wheel up in 1st through 4th in a blink of an eye. I'm sure under the right RPM you can get it to do it in 5th and 6th too. My friends tell me my wheel has been up 2 or 3 inches and I can tell it lifts but I am trying all the time to keep it down. For the most part the 8 guys I ride with are very cautious, the are always watching out for me being new yet. It's just sometimes you can't help getting on it, you all know that feeling. It's just super dangerous, there is nothing to protect you on a bike like in a car. I am very lucky to have a friend that prefers to ride his Harley over his 6RR and lets me use it till I buy mine in the spring.I love that machine,it is amazing. All is fine with the car but for a left rear door lock that sounds like a machine gun when you hit the remote, it goes bang bang bang like 8 times, LOL. I have no idea what has loosened up in there. it's all work now with winter cold coming in and it being a very busy time for us at work supplying rental heat. I hang out here a lot and read and even Dar will tell me whos here sometimes wile I'm finishing dinner in the evenings. I have her hooked too. LOL Hey, change the clocks tonight guys. Take care all...

[epricedright]

Speaking of wheelies, I'd like to know how they're doing those reverse wheelies, where the rear wheel comes off the ground and then they ride it for a distance...CRAZY!

Are they slamming on their front brakes while leaning forward to pop there rear wheels up?

[Matt]

That's another good question. It all is crazy though, why must there be an added thrill of some wild stunt? I think it's just a thrill enough to come back alive from a ride. Also why risk wrecking something that cost so much, these are really nice machines. The mechanics are pretty wild and they run nice, 127 HP, 15000RPM Red line and only 365 Lbs. Bare in mind, it's not the machine that is dangerous, it's the rider.

[sesenter]

Cleaned both mine yesterday. Wife sat in with foot on the gas pedal.They were flithy. I used a whole can of throttle body cleaned on each one. Thanks for your help with posts. The whole job took about 20 minutes for each car.

3 questions .. How often should this cleaning be done ? Can the carbon build up be prevented ? Is there an adative that can be added to the fuel system ? thanks again

[WarrenJ]

Cleaned both mine yesterday. Wife sat in with foot on the gas pedal.They were flithy. I used a whole can of throttle body cleaned on each one. Thanks for your help with posts. The whole job took about 20 minutes for each car.

3 questions .. How often should this cleaning be done ? Can the carbon build up be prevented ? Is there an adative that can be added to the fuel system ? thanks again

My answers:

1] I do it once a year (12,000 miles or so). No problems in the last several years.

2 & 3] Probably not. Only air flows through the TB; no detergent-added gasoline ever sees the TB on the intake side. The deposits, IIRC, are primarily the result of contaminants remaining in the intake after the engine is shut down.

Regards,

Warren

[GreenMachine]

I didn't disconnect the battery after my TB cleaning and I did notice that it idled high for awhile, figured it was the cleaner and engine needing to warm up, a few bursts of wide open throttle and driving around town sitting at a few red lights got it idling smooth, these cars are pretty smart and seem to learn from "on the job training"