Jump to content
CaddyInfo Cadillac Forum

Ruby's Vibrator


Ranger

Recommended Posts

Well, I drove in to work today. The vibration at 70 mph is just slightly better but still there. The funny thing is it seems to fade in and out. I have no explanation for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Well, I drove in to work today. The vibration at 70 mph is just slightly better but still there. The funny thing is it seems to fade in and out. I have no explanation for that.

Pay attention to the road surface and see if its related to the road.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes there can just be some sort of "frequency" in a large section of pavement that can produce what feels like a vibration. There's a two-mile section like that on I-81 in southwest Virginia. I swore something was wrong in the car until the 10th time or so driving over it, and finally figured out it was in the road.

Have you had a Hunter balance yet? That's the first place I'd go. I understand tires are match-mounted to the wheels at the factory, but something in the tire coud have changed I guess...or maybe a mechanical problem with the tire has developed. Only a road force balance will be able to tell you.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Larry,

Congratulations on your new purchase. My question is this: When the vibration starts, do you feel it in the steering wheel or through your seat? Typically if you feel it in the steering wheel then it's something in the front end (and not necessarily the tires). If you feel the shaking in your seat then it's most likely coming from the rear end (once again not necessarily the tires).

Something to think about. When one of my rear knuckles was starting to go I was getting intermittent vibration at highway speeds. If i went a little faster or slower it would go away. If you're having trouble figuring out whether it's the front or back then take along a passenger and ask them if they can feel it in their seat or not. Good luck.

"Burns" rubber

" I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kger2,

Actually I can feel it in both the wheel and the seat. The car only has 14K on it now so I doubt anything is worn.

Jason,

No, I just had it spin balanced. I guess the Hunter balance is next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a feeling you were going to say that Larry. Scotty said it best when he once said that it's very difficult to assess what is wrong over the internet. For me vibration issues have always been fairly easy (but not always) to isolate because I had the fortune of knowing a race car mechanic that loved to ride around with me when I had issues. He would show me exactly what to look for and how to feel the vibration. Kind of hard to relay that kind of obscure knowledge over the internet.

I would start out with taking a knowledgeable friend or neighbor for a ride and get their assessment on the problem. After that I would take one of the tire guys for a ride or let them take you for a ride and see what they have to say. Someone mentioned earlier about swaping the rims/tires with some known rims and tires. Yes it would take some "putting your back into it" but then you would know that it was or wasn't the rims and or tires. And this is information that could be collected in an afternoon. This has my vote.

"Burns" rubber

" I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kger2,

Actually I can feel it in both the wheel and the seat. The car only has 14K on it now so I doubt anything is worn.

Jason,

No, I just had it spin balanced. I guess the Hunter balance is next.

Glad to see you're finally seeing the light! The reason the vibration seems to come and go is because it is coming from road force, and in ALL of the tires, not just one. As the tires cycle through their "gyrations" sometimes they are "in sync" causing you to feel the vibration more, and sometime they go "completely out of sync" which tends to cancel one or the other out.

Now we'll move to phase two, correcting the issue. If you drop the car off at a dealer, and it sits overnight, you have EXACTLY NO chance of getting the tires done correctly on a GSP9700 machine. Make sure the tires are warm, and get them OFF the ground immediately so they don't flat spot. The GSP9700 works best on new tires that have never been on the ground...no chance to flat spot.

Next, try to convince the guy running the machine to forget everything he "knows" about balancing tires on the GSP9700. DO NOT go by the built in program which only rejects tires over about 24 lbs. road force. You need to get each and EVERY tire down to it's lowest road force reading possible. This could cost you extra since EVERY tire will likely need to be broken down and repositioned on the rim. It's best to get this out in the open very early in the process so nobody gets surprised when it comes time to pay the bill. He WILL NOT want to listen to you...it means more work for him.

Make sure the tire pressures are where you will want them to be in the future, like about 36 psi.

That's enough for now. Doing the above will get you pretty happy. Keep in mind, if you cannot get every tire below about 15 lbs road force, I'd replace the offending tire.

If you need a visual aid, move your "fuzzy" sunvisor to the side and lower the plastic one about halfway. Drive at the speed that you think is the worst and watch that sucker do a dance! After the balance, try it again for confirmation of your success.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Rsnger

I was looking through the service manuak today and they have a few sections on vibration..This is interesting You may want to check this. The 02 seville also has the same section in the service manual

Jim

Document ID # 664208

2001 Cadillac DeVille

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tire and Wheel Assembly Runout Measurement - On-Vehicle

Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information.

Closely inspect each tire for proper and even bead seating.

If any of the tire beads were not properly or evenly seated, reseat the tire bead, then proceed to step 4. Refer to Tire Mounting and Dismounting in Tires and Wheels.

Wrap the circumference of each tire with tape (1) in the center tread area. Wrapping the tread with tape allows for a smooth and accurate reading of radial runout to be obtained.

Position the dial indicator on the taped portion of the tire tread such that the dial indicator is perpendicular to the tire tread surface.

Slowly rotate the tire and wheel assembly one complete revolution in order to find the low spot.

Set the dial indicator to zero at the low spot.

Slowly rotate the tire and wheel assembly one more complete revolution and measure the total amount of radial runout. Specification

Maximum tire and wheel assembly radial runout - measured on-vehicle: 1.52 mm (0.060 in)

Position the dial indicator on a smooth portion of the tire sidewall, as close to the tread as possible, such that the dial indicator is perpendicular to the tire sidewall surface.

Slowly rotate the tire and wheel assembly one complete revolution in order to find the low spot. Ignore any jumps or dips due to sidewall splices.

Set the dial indicator to zero at the low spot.

Slowly rotate the tire and wheel assembly one more complete revolution and measure the total amount of lateral runout. Ignore any jumps or dips due to sidewall splices and attain an average runout measurement. Specification

Maximum tire and wheel assembly lateral runout - measured on-vehicle: 1.52 mm (0.060 in)

Repeat steps 4 through 12 until all of the tire and wheel assembly radial and lateral runout measurements have been taken.

Lower the vehicle.

© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Jim. I have not located a FSM yet and I am not in a big hurry as the car is still under warranty. I stood right there when they balanced these tires yesterday and they spun them up slowly to check for runout, both lateral and radial. They looked good though admittedly they did not use a dial indicator. I am going to call Cadillac customer service Monday and see if I can get them to cover this. Dealer tells me they won't because tires are worn and only covered for 7K but the squeeky wheel syndrome sometimes helps, especially if you coat it with honey rather than vineger. To my way of thinking a high end car like Cadillac with 14K on it should not have vibrations and Cadillac should correct the problem. Will report back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I talked to Cadillac customer service today and of coarse they call the dealer and as expected they will not cover the vibration because they say the tires were not maintained, even though they admit that it should have been discovered and corrected in the certification proccess. Catch 22. I talked to another dealer and he said that while it is possible that a road force balance "might" help, he did not think so. If a tire was found to be bad (I don't think that is the case), Cadillac would replace that tire. I guess I now have to decide whether to spend more money on another balance job or put that money into new tires (or live with it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its their responsibility given the GM Certification, to hell with that not maintained CRAP! Click WHAT IS GM CERTIFIED on this site and you will SEE what is covered! TIRES WHEELS ROTORS, STRUTS SPRINGS, etc... The problem should have surfaced in the vehicle inspection, check this site:

http://www.gmbuypower.com/cuvHome.cv;jsess...3;7136!7002?

It has a 3 DAY/150 mile satisfaction guarantee, I guess driving it 458 miles did that in... sad.gif

What I don't see is an actual TEST DRIVE as part of the certification, isn't that a shame. DUH! mad.gif I guess its easier to EYE BALL the tread depth and put a PASSED sticker on it and walk away. This is where GM drops the ball if you ask me. How can they diagnose pulsing, noises, intermediate steer shaft noise, pulling, vibration, etc without driving the biach!

They are competing with BMW, LEXUS etc who also HYPE their "USED" car inspections.....

This gets me aggravated, EITHER DO THE F'N JOB RIGHT OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This gets me aggravated, EITHER DO THE F'N JOB RIGHT OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL!

Actually, they chose the latter....otherwise this site woudn't exist.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to agree. They most likely pencil whipped the certification and Cadillac is relying on the (local) dealers diagnosis. She said I could call the selling dealer and ask them if they actually checked the balance and alignment. Yeah, like they're gonna say, oh no, we never bother dry.gif . She also said I could get a second opinion. I asked what happens if they find in my favor. She say, then you got to the selling dealer and see if they will reimburse some money. Yeah right dry.gif . I have an appointment Wed. morning at discount tire to have them look at it. Either he will recommend a road force balance or if he can find something wrong with the tires, maybe he can get Goodyear to give me a good discount on new rubber (probably wishfull thinking). As usual, will keep you guys updated, if anyone really cares. wink.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd probably pay for the road force balance with the Hunter machine. Many report that process has eliminated the vibration.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd probably pay for the road force balance with the Hunter machine. Many report that process has eliminated the vibration.

Not only may the RFB eliminate vibration from mis-mounted tires/wheels, but it can indicate OBJECTIVELY if a tire has a mechanical problem with it. You'll have much better odds going back to Cadillac or Goodyear with evidence. Any brand can produce a bad tire. We had a bad Michelin that Sears sold us. I had them spin balance them about 5 times, and each time, the wheel weights would be in different locations. Not good. Next up, a RFB. He got two tires in perfect balance just by moving the weights. Another tire he reduced down to about 5 lbs. simply by dismounting it and rotating it on the wheel. The last tire he said he couldn't reduce, it was producing too much force, recommended I replace it. I took that data sheet back to Sears and asked for a new tire plus the cost of the RFB (about 60 bucks). They put a new tire on for me and gave me 3 twenties from the cash register. Customer service was excellent and now the van rides like glass.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JohnnyG has hit the nail(tire) on the head.

I had vibrations exactly as you describe when I bought the car and the Hunter system fixed it. 25,00o vibration free miles later I bought new tires and had the same problem. Had them balanced at a couple of different places and only after going back to the dealer who had the Hunter machine was the vibration cured.

Hunter has a website where you can find out who, in your area, has the machine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was not impressed with the cadillac certified inspection. But I did get a good car(So far) No complaints.I guess they just pencil whip most of it and just check the major stuff brakes tires etc. On my certified one It came with new tires and brake pads at 22k on the clock at time of purchase but the rear rotors needed to to be turned shorly after the purchase. When I would stop hard at higher speeds I would get a shudder from the rear but they corrected the problem. One GOOD thing the certified warrany is GREAT..IMHO better than the GM new car warrany. I feel purchase the car from the dealer where you are going to get the car serviced. When something goes wrong and it's a judgement call wheter to fix under warranty or charge the customer. One of the first things the service mgr. checks WHERE did you purchase the car from Not rite in my book but that's the way it works.One time I called cadillac customer service on a problem and I got the SAME BS line as Ranger go back to the selling DEALER..So much for Cadillac Customer Service..And I just hung up on them.I have No Complaints with the dealer I deal with..Top Notch In My Book.Cadillac Customer Service is another story..I'm not impressed with them..Maybe it was just the rep from cadillac but they did not impress me..

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please keep in mind, Cadillac is strictly "Hands Off" when it comes to dealerships. They do not endorse, encourage, train, support, or guide them in the way they do their jobs. Bbobynski made that perfectly clear about a year ago. They are treated with complete autonomy...and GM does not share in the liability lawsuits, which is what this is all about.

I remember looking at a used 2004 STS last year. Nice car, Black (was supposed to be black on black but wasn't) BUT...even though it was certified, it had the tire vibration from 68 - 72 mph. It also had some bad codes (I mean bad as in "expensive to fix"). I showed the salesman how to pull the codes from the DIC and told him that I didn't want another "fixer upper". His only comment was "those things were supposed to be checked by the shop", "wait till the owner finds out"! Yeah, like I'm going to wait around to see his reaction!

The idea is to pencil whip the inspection, get the certification and the extended warranty, then bill GM for every repair that comes in that day! Unfortunately for GM, it could have been so much better. They missed the chance to be the Lexus of the automotive world by not believing in themselves and the products they produce.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I got Ruby in for a road force balance this morning. What a difference. I think there is the slightest of vibration but it is barely percivable and I can live with it. What really burns me is that they (discount tire) charged me the same as the Goodyear store charged me for a spin balance ($40). Live and learn. The dealer was saying that the vibration was because the tires were feathered on the edges. Now that I have proven them wrong, I am going to call Cadillac back and try to get them to reemburse me for the balance. Probably a long shot but, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Thanks to all for your help and ideas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hunter has a website where you can find out who, in your area, has the machine.

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm

Regards,

Warren

Posted Image

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I got Ruby in for a road force balance this morning. What a difference. I think there is the slightest of vibration but it is barely percivable and I can live with it. What really burns me is that they (discount tire) charged me the same as the Goodyear store charged me for a spin balance ($40).

Alright! Great to hear you got it fixed. $10/tire is a great price for a road force balance. My local Goodyear store, who is the only shop I trusted with the machine, save for the Cadillac dealer, told me $15/tire on the phone, then tried to charge $30/tire when I got there. They went back to their $15/tire price, but I think they'd charge anyone who just happened to walk in and ask for it 120 bucks.

Did you talk to the guy who did the balance? Did he have to remount any of the tires? What were the forces on each tire?

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched him do it. He remounted each tire but could only get the forces down to 18, 32, 23 & 11. I talked to him this morning and he said that the remaining (very minor) vibration may be due to the feathering and should smooth out more as the feathering wears even in a thousand miles or so. Dealer wanted $120 to RFB dry.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...