BMWburner Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 First of all I would like to say that I love this site. This is my fist post and I’m still a newbie. I just bought my first STS, a 95', this summer and I love it to death. I now frequent these forums, and am learning a lot. I had put a K&N filter on it and was disappointed with the performance. Thanks to Scotty and the rest of you with mediocre performance filter experiences, I know to pull that piece of marketing brilliance out of there before it lets any more crap into my engine. I could use the fifty bucks I pissed away on that filter right about now because my transmission is stuck in second gear. I’m to understand that the Northstar transmission will go into safe mode if it doesn’t operate properly. I’m getting the following error codes: P029 Transaxle Shift 'B' solenoid problem (1st, 3rd, 4th gear), and P094 Transaxle Shift "A" Solenoid Problem (Vehicle Speed Sensor). I’m assuming that replacing the solenoids would remedy the problem, but then again if it has anything to do with the vehicle speed sensors I’m to understand those are inside the transmission and expensive to replace. I’m a destitute college student and expensive transmission repairs just aren’t an option for me right now. Is this a common problem on this transmission? What are the chances that it will need to be rebuilt? When I found out that hard throttle actually makes for a happier Northstar I wasn’t shy to make a daily on ramp run to keep cold carbon wrap at bay. Could all the hard throttle have damaged the transmission? Any other members with experience to offer on this topic would be greatly appreciated. My mechanic won’t work on it and I need to know where I should take it, and how much to expect to pay. I don’t want to get ripped off, and I need to plan my ramen noodle diet accordingly. Sorry this post is so long, and thanks, –Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Thanks for the kind words in the beginning of your post. We will help you as much as we can, I need to digest this but there are many here that have changed the solenoids. Where do you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Welcome to the board. Improved solenoids are not expensive and you can do the job yourself. Shift solenoids failure has nothing to do with driving habits. Replace them and enjoy your Caddy. There is a lot of info in the archives regarding shift solenoids replacement.. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWburner Posted September 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Scotty, I live in Des Moines, Iowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 First off, it is rather common and an easy fix. Your DTC's point to shift solenoids. Don't let anyone sell you a new/rebuilt trans or an overhaul. Solenoid kit is like $50 or so. Any decent mechanic can do it. We even had a young guy on this site do it in his driveway and it was his first repair. We were all impressed though I can't rememeber who it was. The other thing you mentioned, which I don't believe is relevant is the speed sensors. There are two. Vehicle speed sensor (externally mounted on the right output shaft housing and accessable throught the right wheel well) and the input speed sensor (the $20 part, $2000 deep inside the trans), neither of which seem to be your problem. The problem is more common in the earlier models and the WOT may have helped bring about the problem. It is my understanding that the new solenoids come with a bracket to hold them in place and prevent it from happening again. Someone posted a step by step proceedure some time ago. You may find it with a search, or perhaps someone has it stored. Might have been JJBuckley though I am not positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I was hoping you were nearby so that I could recommend a mechanic. Maybe someone knows one nearby for you. Try visiting your local Caddy dealer and speaking to the Service Manager, tell him your problem and ask him who they send their older Caddy's too when they need tranny work.. He may have a relationship that he has done work with. If he does, make sure you tell the tranny shop you were recommended by the Caddy dealer. As Adallak mentioned the archives have a lot of information on this.. I will do some thinking and try to recall specific posts.. Recently oldgamer did his solenoids but I dont think he had the solenoid codes only the safe mode... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWburner Posted September 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Scotty, that’s pretty sage advice. I work in a music shop when I’m not in class, and I sold the service manager at Bett’s Cadillac a used drum set for his 12 year old really cheap just cos’ I thought he was a cool guy. I didn’t drive a Caddy at the time. I hope he remembers me. However, this solenoid business seems reasonable, and I’ve pulled this and that out of past forums. I still don’t know where to get started. I can change my oil, and plugs, and filters and stuff, but I’ve never dropped a trans pan. Will fluid start spilling out? What am I looking at once I’m in there? Where are these demon solenoids? Any further info would be great, as I can’t seem to find a step by step type of post yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I stand corrected, it was Willie Hank. You find the proceedure in this thread. http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...0solenoid&st=15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWburner Posted September 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 OK I'm feeling better. I think I'll just find a decent local shop to deal with this. I'm sure I could replace the solenoids myself, but I would happily trade an afternoon of my life for whatever the labor costs. My only concern at this point is that I have driven my Caddy in safe mode with only second gear and only around town. On ocasion I have needed it for transportation and have had no choice. Never the less, I have driven about a hundred miles, but never over 35 or 40 miles per hour. Is there a chance I could have damaged any clutches or the like. I can smell hot fluid, but it isn't too obnoxious. I guess I didn't worry too much about it because aside from the high revs, the car still drives fine. Tisk, tisk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I would not drive it until you get it fixed at this point. I would not call the shift solenoid job and easy job at all. acklac7 went through a lot of problems doing the solenoids, see this http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...231&hl=solenoid I would find a competent shop to just do the solenoids, filters, strainers, and fluid, including the side cover fluid...and hopefully you will get lucky. Follow up that relationship you have with the service manager, that is exactly the kind of hook you need. The solenoids were redesigned in 96 I understand. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Welcome. Aaah yes the Ramen noodles cooked in hotpots from college days. It sounds like you're making a good decision by taking it to a tranny shop. I think it's reasonable to say that if everything went smoothly that the job could be done in an afternoon (a long one at that) from what I've read. But then there are those issues that make the job less appealing like: free time, having the space to work on it, having enough jack stands and doing it properly, the right tools, cleaning up the mess, correct parts on hand, and the ability to go get more parts if lost or needed. It's inspiring to read the posts of those that have done the solenoids and hopefully (well not really lol) in the future it's something I'll tackle as well. I'm recently married and looking for a house among other things so "free" time is at a premium at the moment and like you I would gladly pay someone else to do it. And in your case you'll be going into the shop armed with the knowledge of your transmission problem so as not to get ripped off. Bonus! Once again welcome and good luck. Make sure to report back when it's all fixed and ready for more WOTs. -kg "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I doubt you did any damage driving it in second gear. Just higher RPM and more gas. I seem to recall a solenoid job being reported by others as $200 - $300. I even recall someone supplying the parts and finding shop to do it for less than $100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Just did my A and B shift solenoids Thurs. afternoon at my buddy’s shop. This is NOT a job you want to try yourself, lying on your back under the car. Get it up on a rack, then it’s not too bad. Btw, I had the exact same symptoms and codes as you do, along with the same short term driving techniques. My STS is running like new now after the solenoid change, with the “new improved” “L” bracket. The kit was 47.25 delivered from GMparts.com, or 70 bucks from the dealer. The thing is about GMparts.com, you need to be ready to wait AT LEAST a week to ten days for the parts, usually, (in my experience) longer. I just sprang for the extra 20 bucks and went to my friendly dealer. I just couldn’t stand my STS being broke for two weeks! '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Just did my A and B shift solenoids Thurs. afternoon at my buddy’s shop. This is NOT a job you want to try yourself, lying on your back under the car. Get it up on a rack, then it’s not too bad. Btw, I had the exact same symptoms and codes as you do, along with the same short term driving techniques. My STS is running like new now after the solenoid change, with the “new improved” “L” bracket. The kit was 47.25 delivered from GMparts.com, or 70 bucks from the dealer. The thing is about GMparts.com, you need to be ready to wait AT LEAST a week to ten days for the parts, usually, (in my experience) longer. I just sprang for the extra 20 bucks and went to my friendly dealer. I just couldn’t stand my STS being broke for two weeks! Hey thats cool Bob! I didnt know you had a problem. What was the most difficult part of the job? Something tells me the check balls but if you have a good diagram that should not be hard. Did the new solenoids come with the bracket redesign? What codes were you getting? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Just did my A and B shift solenoids Thurs. afternoon at my buddy’s shop. This is NOT a job you want to try yourself, lying on your back under the car. Get it up on a rack, then it’s not too bad. Btw, I had the exact same symptoms and codes as you do, along with the same short term driving techniques. My STS is running like new now after the solenoid change, with the “new improved” “L” bracket. The kit was 47.25 delivered from GMparts.com, or 70 bucks from the dealer. The thing is about GMparts.com, you need to be ready to wait AT LEAST a week to ten days for the parts, usually, (in my experience) longer. I just sprang for the extra 20 bucks and went to my friendly dealer. I just couldn’t stand my STS being broke for two weeks! Hey thats cool Bob! I didnt know you had a problem. What was the most difficult part of the job? Something tells me the check balls but if you have a good diagram that should not be hard. Did the new solenoids come with the bracket redesign? What codes were you getting? Mike Yeah, it was nuthin' to get too excited about. I thought I'd get the job done, test it. then report the results. Turns out this was the opportunity to do that. Just like "BMWwhooper", I got sudden codes po29 ans 94 with a default to second gear, and the rpm's varying from 2500-4000. The hardest thing on the repair/replacement is it's m-e-s-s-e-y..blah. I have the factory manual, so Ive got all the necessary diagrams and procedures. You can also find everthing you need here (which really simplifies things) by using the search funtion, and typing in "solenoid kit". (Btw, the inside skinny says {"use vasoline" to hold the steel balls in place for re-assembly.) Yep, the nice little bag 'o parts comes with everything you need for the solenoids, including the "L" bracket. Like I said, what a difference! '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 I would not drive it until you get it fixed at this point. I would not call the shift solenoid job and easy job at all. acklac7 went through a lot of problems doing the solenoids[/url] Ahhh the memories .....Yes I went through alot of trouble...However that was because I forgot to install the L bracket that came with the solenoid update kit....Had I installed that I would likely have my original trans. right now..Not a rebuilt one (which is working GREAT btw)...After installing the L bracket I mistakenly put in 8 quarts of fluid instead of the 14(?) the trans is supposed to take....(fluid level read full......couldn't find the capacity info in the manual...went online to find it...and found a post pertaining to another Trans. that said it took 8 quarts....All the ingredients for disaster).....After the Trans. heated up she made a mighty groan and went south ....Burnt a bunch of clutches....total rebuild was $1850. As for doing-it-yourself....In all honesty it wasn't that hard of a job, If I would have simply followed the directions and used all of the parts supplied I would have been fine ...However if you don't have a factory service manual / never worked on a car before I wouldn't attempt it. Yes the Trans. fluid will come streaming out when you loosen the pan...And it is one dirty,dirty job...If you don't get the check balls right you will have to do it again!!! Driving in 2nd shouldn't damage anything...As Ranger noted. I drove mine in @nd for a couple hundred miles (as a few others have done) without any problems. I believe Guru said that the N* can run all day long at 3500 rpm's....If you did damage a clutch you would likely get a P086-undefined gear ratio code...and the fluid would smell like a chicken that's been on the bbq for hours on end.... One more word of advice...When you talk to the shop tell them what your symptoms are and that you have pulled the trouble codes and tell them what the codes mean (trans. solenoid problem)..Ask them politely if they can fix the solenoids and how much it will cost...If they give you the "well there might be more damage" routine I would find another shop. A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 One more word of advice...When you talk to the shop tell them what your symptoms are and that you have pulled the trouble codes and tell them what the codes mean (trans. solenoid problem)..Ask them politely if they can fix the solenoids and how much it will cost... If they give you the "well there might be more damage" routine I would find another shop. If they give you the "well there might be more damage" routine I would find another shop.< Great advice from acklac7! Don't let them feed you any of that "Might be more wrong" BS. Tell them you've got plenty of friends with Cadillacs, and this is a common fault on higher milege 4T80 transmissions. Tell them you've seen this "Work evey time". Like ack said, if they grumble, walk away. You'll find a shop that will appreciate an informed customer, sometimes it just takes a little looking. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Went to a reputable tranny shop with the parts, 1-1/2 hours later, $72.00 labor and $10.00 for fluid. I got lucky and found the right shop. Check around you might too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWburner Posted September 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Oh, by the way. I got new tires when I first bought the car, and wound up at a "Tires Plus" because they had the bridgstones I wanted rediculously cheap. While I was waitng they gave me the "you need your tranny fluid changed" bullshit, and I told them I wanted to see the fluid. It was pretty dirty and they had a "deal" that week where it would only be fourty bucks, so I let them do it. Now that I know that their "flush machine" has liklely pumped my torque converter full of the remains of the Intrepid that was done before me, I'd like to rectify my crass mistake. I'd like to have something done this week while I'm in the shop dealing with the solenoids. Any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Hopefully you did not get a dose of garbage in your tranny, how long ago was the "flush".. NEVER have it flushed again. A simple draining of the lower and side pans is all that is necessary, do not let anyone tell you any different. The side pan does not need to be removed, once you remove the lower pan there is a drain that you remove.. Mike THIS to me is the trouble with repair shops, the FN cross selling that they do. A few years ago I went to Goodyear for tires for an EXPLORER before the Firestone recall. I gave them my keys and walked across the street to kill time and have lunch... I came back an hour later and my car was on the lift all tires off and no work had been done on the tires... When I walked in he said, MR. X you need wipers and rear brakes! I said, you didn't do my tires? Nope, we needed approval for the wipers and brakes! I said, you delayed doing my tires for wipers and brakes, why didn't you do the tires in the meantime? I just killed an hour on a Saturday! I said, good, now put my FN tires on I am leaving who the H do you think you are? I do all my own work, I came here for tires! And I left! CROSS SELLING! Ignore all cross selling, they are looking for suckers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Oh, by the way. I got new tires when I first bought the car, and wound up at a "Tires Plus" because they had the bridgstones I wanted rediculously cheap. While I was waitng they gave me the "you need your tranny fluid changed" bullshit, and I told them I wanted to see the fluid. It was pretty dirty and they had a "deal" that week where it would only be fourty bucks, so I let them do it. Now that I know that their "flush machine" has liklely pumped my torque converter full of the remains of the Intrepid that was done before me, I'd like to rectify my crass mistake. I'd like to have something done this week while I'm in the shop dealing with the solenoids. Any advice? Just drain all the fluid that is possible, by making sure they know about that 11mm bolt on the side that you can get to after they drop the pan and valve body. All in all you'll get about 12 or so quarts out that way.That ought to help. Also, (I think I mentioned this somewhere) you can do what I did, and have them braze a drain plug onto the pan, so next time draining the initial fluid is easy. After your first big change here (with the solenoids) you can do a couple of quick drains of five or so quartr until you fell better. Btw, contrary to that shops diagnosis, transmission fluid really doesn't get "pretty dirty," perse. It's either in good shape, or it's shot, being obviously burned from over heating. You can't mistake that, it's very dark (not a nice clear red) and had a very acrid oder. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 you can do what I did, and have them braze a drain plug onto the pan, so next time draining the initial fluid is easy. Good Idea, how involved was that? Where do you get the drain plug for that? Was it put in the bottom of the pan or side flange? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 you can do what I did, and have them braze a drain plug onto the pan, so next time draining the initial fluid is easy. Good Idea, how involved was that? Where do you get the drain plug for that? Was it put in the bottom of the pan or side flange? Piece of cake if you have a drill and a torch. It was just a 1/2 pipe threaded collet and a bolt with a gasket. (You can get them at a good hardware store or even atuo shop..try NAPA). We drilled into the bottom of the pan in a corner, cleaned and brazed in up. No clearance problems whatsover. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 you can do what I did, and have them braze a drain plug onto the pan, so next time draining the initial fluid is easy. Good Idea, how involved was that? Where do you get the drain plug for that? Was it put in the bottom of the pan or side flange? Piece of cake if you have a drill and a torch. It was just a 1/2 pipe threaded collet and a bolt with a gasket. (You can get them at a good hardware store or even atuo shop..try NAPA). We drilled into the bottom of the pan in a corner, cleaned and brazed in up. No clearance problems whatsover. Nice, the reason I asked about bottom or side was the potential for knocking it off with a bad pothole or bump, I guess it would make sense to keep it as shallow as possible and toward the front of the pan, I am going to think about this. Is the pan cast aluminum? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 you can do what I did, and have them braze a drain plug onto the pan, so next time draining the initial fluid is easy. Good Idea, how involved was that? Where do you get the drain plug for that? Was it put in the bottom of the pan or side flange? Piece of cake if you have a drill and a torch. It was just a 1/2 pipe threaded collet and a bolt with a gasket. (You can get them at a good hardware store or even atuo shop..try NAPA). We drilled into the bottom of the pan in a corner, cleaned and brazed in up. No clearance problems whatsover. Nice, the reason I asked about bottom or side was the potential for knocking it off with a bad pothole or bump, I guess it would make sense to keep it as shallow as possible and toward the front of the pan, I am going to think about this. Is the pan cast aluminum? Thanks You've got the location nailed Mike. The pan is stamped steel. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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