New STS owner w/ problems, HELP!

[Petroleum]

Hey all, I just bought a '96 STS and I've had it for about 4 months and well... I love my car; it is absolutely gorgeous in and out. I'm very glad to have found this forum (I've never joined one these).

Anyhoo, my first mistake: I got the oil changed at Wal-Mart (please don't hit me!) and the check oil light came on and i figured it was an error so I disregarded (after checking the oil of course). Now the engine knocks because it had low oil and Wal-Mart will not acknowledge the error as being their's. So now I might have to have the engine replaced or rebuilt. I would like some advice. I ordered a service manual. I am a college student (petroleum engineer, hence the tag) and am very good with my hands I just don't have much mechanical experience other than servicing the vehicle.

On a more immediate note, I went to start "Sofia" and all the lights turned on and the stereo was good, but all I heard was -- *click*click*. I turned the head lights on and then tried the ignition to see if they would dim, ie, the battery was low, but no deal. I checked the fuses to the best of my ability and the battery connections seem fine. I went to Autozone today to get a new starter but it was listed at 163.95 so I figured it would be cheaper online.

My car runs well, but it knocks slightly (not all the time) and has a "grinding" sound, nevertheless, I want it to run so a mechanic can have a complete look at it. I will put the starter on myself, unless it is too difficult but I doubt it. Oh, and of course, if you know where I might get a cheaper starter, if that is the problem, I would be very grateful.

I would appreciate an experienced opinion. Thank you.

Petrol

[JasonA]

Anyhoo, my first mistake: I got the oil changed at Wal-Mart (please don't hit me!) and the check oil light came on and i figured it was an error so I disregarded (after checking the oil of course). Now the engine knocks because it had low oil and Wal-Mart will not acknowledge the error as being their's.

Welcome to the forum!

I'm not clear on what happened here... You said you disregarded the light "after checking the oil of course". Does that mean that when you checked the oil, it was full, or at least reading on the dipstick? Or does that mean that you checked the oil and it didn't show up? In which case I'd ask...did you continue to drive it at that point?

You go on to say "now the engine knocks because it had low oil", which leads me to believe that you checked the oil (above) and it was low...but then I wonder why you would have kept driving it.

Help, I'm confused!

[Petroleum]

Yeah sorry :-D I was just reading over it. I immediately checked the oil and it was fine. Then about an hour later I did so again, and still it was good. So I assumed that the sensor was a bit off as is often the case. In retrospect, this is an STS and I should have never disregarded the display.

Any other time the "Check Oil Level " would come on I would check it and still, it was fine. It never leaked oil, the filter was on nice and tight and well again I shrugged it off. Well this went on for about 2500 miles and I said I'll just have it changed ( I was very busy at the time and did not have time to do it myself) just to be safe and while I'm at it I'll add "slick 50." Well, lo and behold, I was told to sign a waiver that they were not responsible for any engine damage done by a low level. And I thought to myself, but I've checked it regularly and it was not low until recently. Keep in mind that the first time I changed the oil I had just bought the car; it had 112K miles and it wasn't due for a change for about another 1k miles. And that is why I thought the display was a bit off, because it came on before it's next oil change.

The gentlemen I bought the car from is a Petroleum Company Machine Process Technician and I have bought another Ford f-150 from him that was great. So, I figured if there was a problem he would have informed me. He did let me know that at 60K miles he had to have the transmission rebuilt because he did not take care of it; it was his first performance engine. The car was used entirely by his wife who only used to go to the grocery store, church, errands, family trips, etc. I only use it for school, work and trips from Houston, TX to Austin, TX (about 180 mi.).

My car is sitting outside my house right now and every time I see it... well, I am deeply saddened. I feel responsible. I am returning to The University of Texas in Austin in January and I want "Sofy" in as close to 100% as a used car can get. A gentlemen offered my 4500 for it, cash, as is, but I could not bring myself to part with it. I am more than willing to tear it down and rebuild it if need be. I do have time now and WILL have my car fixed by my own hands, if possible, by January.

Petrol

[Petroleum]

(sorry about the long drawn-out posts)

Don't forget though, I need advice on the "Starter issue" first and foremost. Should I tow it to a mechanic or put the starter in? Once I cross that bridge we can run full force at the Engine issues.

Petrol

[Ranger]

The Northstar hold 7 1/2 qts. and the check oil level message illuminates at 5 or 5 1/2 qts. The engine will run all day long with 5 qts. and do NO damage.

I wouldn't beat yourself up for having the oil changed a Walmart. It is not rocket science. Any grease monkey can do it. Likewise, even the most advanced mechanic can get distracted and mak a mistake.

I wouldn't use an AutoZone starter. Their parts are cheap for a reason. Try http://www.rockauto.com or http://www.gmpartsdirect.com for an OEM A/C Delco starter.

[Petroleum]

Thak you for the websites. Well, I guess now's a good a time as any. I cannot find a starter under any of the listings on either website. Does it go by a technical name that I don't know.

Such a newbie.

I'll be off for about a few hours, I need to go check the mail b/c I am expecting a repair manual for the STS and my Honda CBR 600 F3V; as well as a headlight for the motorcycle. Please leave any and all helpful feedback.

[OynxSTS]

Re Starter Replacement...

If the Battery is original i.e. around 10 years old... It is more likely that it is not delivering enough cranking Amps to turn over the starter....

I've seen lots of "little past the expiry date" "green" eyed Delcos the look good but produce only 30 or so Amps, plenty to run the radio and lights but only click click click the starter. Starters can easily draw well over 50 Amps, I don't know about N* Starters... But some draw over 90 Amps

In my experience:

1) 10 years out of any battery is pushing it

2) Click Click from starter = Bad Battery

3) Replacing the battery will cost $70-110 and is a DIY project for just about anyone.... Replacing the starter on a N* is a little more involved...Its under the intake manifold

4) Starters on N* seem to be fairly strong and reliable

Good Luck

[PAUL T]

Check your OBDII diagnostic codes by turning the key on, engine off and pressing the "off" and "warmer" buttons on the climate control panel. The codes will come up in the message center. Have a pencil ready because they come up fast. There are 2 types of codes "current" that mean the problem is happening now, and "history" which means they have come up in the past. When the light comes on there should be a code stored. Post your results. To get out press the "auto" button or turn the key off. When you get your manual you will not believe what you can manipulate with the climate control panel.

I would have the battery tested before changing the starter. Your knocking could be cold carbon rapping. When you do not wide open throttle(WOT) the vehicle regularly to clean out the carbon buildup you will get the tapping. Hit the on ramp of the freeway and WOT to about 80 then let off. The WOT will loosen the carbon and when you let off the gas it will suck it out. You can also get the same result by driving hard in second gear. A Northstar needs this regularly to keep it clean. When the "check oil light" comes on there is still 5 to 5 1/2 quarts left, plenty to drive around without damage. 7 1/2 quarts are used so you can take a 1 G turn and still have oil pickup, if I remember right. Hope this helps Sophie. Good Luck.

[Petroleum]

I just took off the battery and checked the connections for "buildup." They are clean. As I was cleaning the windshields a gentlemen stopped in the middle of the road and asked me how much I wanted for the Cadillac. I replied that it wasn't for sale. He said, "That's a nice care, man."

I don't have an ampere meter to check the output on the battery. The plan of action: on Monday, Aug. 29, I am gonna pull it behind the Dodge and take it to a friend who is a mechanic.

I appreciate all the info. and I will keep y'all updated. Thanks!

Petrol

I will try checking the Diagnostics, give me a moment.

[jschunke]

So your gonna install a new starter on a motor

that knocks. Why not take that offer and run?

[Petroleum]

Okay, I tried doing what you said and I could not get it to work. There are two "off" buttons. The individual to the left of the "AC" button and the one "switch" off to the right that is in the middle of the bottom "temp" and I can't remember what the top one says.

I turn the key so that everything is lit and then? Which "Off" do I press, and do I press it simultaneously with the other button (I am assuming the "warmer" button is the one above the temp/off one.

Oh, also the battery is relatively new, but then again, you never know.

Petrol

[PAUL T]

You can check the voltage thru the climate control panel, but my manual is for a 94 OBDI. Maybe some one else can tell you how.

[Petroleum]

So your gonna install a new starter on a motor

that knocks. Why not take that offer and run?

Well, no and yes. I love my car, period. And that's what it boils down to. I sold my F-150 the moment a good offer came up, but I genuinely love my car. The engine was sound before this past month, so I am hoping it won't be anything too serious.

By "no and yes," I mean: if I was certain that it was the starter, I would, because the engine isn't in terrible conditions by any means, but it does need to be looked at by a trained, experienced professional. And no, because if I knew better I would just swap out engines and that of course would come with a "new" starter. A starter will run me anywhere from $84 wholesale to $200 -- whereas an engine with under 60k miles and a gurantee/warranty w/ "accesories" will go from 1100 to 2000. I already have someone to install it, he'll charge about 300 for everything. But, as I have stated before I am new to the hands on mechanical side of owning an automobile. I've never had the need to. Now's a better time than any to learn, though.

[OynxSTS]

I just took off the battery and checked the connections for "buildup." They are clean.

I don't have an ampere meter to check the output on the battery. The plan of action: on Monday, Aug. 29, I am gonna pull it behind the Dodge and take it to a friend who is a mechanic.

I will try checking the Diagnostics, give me a moment.

First. clean terminals on the battery are nice, but provide little evidence to its condition.

Second. 100+ Amp meters are very expensive... You could probably buy 3 batteries for the price of one

Third. Drive/walk/bus to Walmart, Costco, Pepboys or if you want it to be fancy the Dealer and buy a $50, 70, 80 or $110 battery (prices match the vendor)

Replace your 10year old battery... fill the crankcase to the proper level, warm the car up and do the WOT treatment and you will be good to go!

[Northstar]

Take your battery out and have it checked somewhere.

[OynxSTS]

PS you will find the parts for this car and the N* engine a little different than the parts for your F150... I know, I had an F150 too...

For example... New shocks for my truck were about $65 bucks a corner... Struts for the STS are $700 bucks each for the fronts... And don't expect to stab in a jobber Small block chevy starter into your car... its not like that... aftermarket parts for these cars at not at the same level as they are for 5.0 Litre Fords or 350 Chevys. Nine times out of 10 your off to the dealer to get OE parts... The good news about this is the quality ussually matches the price...

And regarding $1100 for a new engine with a warrantee! This is not a 5.0L Ford Most on this board are paying north of $3000 for engine rebuilds. The labor alone to re&re your engine is going to be $1000.

If this sounds bad it, don't worry. Most of these car are super reliable and don't need this level of service.

Good Luck and enjoy your ride

[Scotty]

Make sure you take the positive terminals apart by pulling the red insulator off and cleaning the terminals individually, watch how it comes apart so you can get it back together..

[navion]

If you think that you have a bearing problem, take the oil filter off and using an oil filter cutter, cut it open and look at what is in the filter media. If you have a lot of metallic flakes, the you most likely have damaged bearings. HOWEVER, that is extremely unlikely if the engine had only 5 quarts in it. The Check Oil Level message is for low oil level. The message for low oil pressure is different.

I will go out on a limb and speculate that you have a knock from carbon buildup. I would also check to see if your dipstick is stained, giving you a false impression that the oil level is higher than it really is. A replacement dip stick is less then $15 from Brasington.

Do the filter cut/inspection, then if you don't find any metal, replace the filter and be absolutely sure that you are reading the actual oil level in the crankcase. Then if all is well, do a search on this forum on how to get rid of the carbon knock. Perhaps somebody can post a link.

I think that the low oil level has gotten you nervous and now you are attributing carbon knock to bearing failure. Check the oil filter and then go from there.

On your starter problem, after tightening the battery cable connectors, grasp the cables next to the connections and see if you can turn them. If they turn, then you will either need to add a shim washer or replace the lead spacer on that goes between the two positive cables.

Loose battery connectors will give you all sorts of headaches with these cars.

Don't Panic

Good Luck,

Britt

[Willie Hank]

About the starter,....after you have done all the trouble-shooting everyone has advised, and if it is the starter, $ 163 is not bad. I bought one from a parts house for about $ 140, I think it was rebuilt.

Its under the intake manifold,...a little awkward to replace, you have to be careful with the fuel rail, and take all the air intake stuff off. Also, getting to the rear bolt of the starter is a little tricky, you better have some decent tools, like 1/4" driver extensions, and knuckle joints...

The 'valley' of your engine should be dry (mine had East Texas pine needles). If you have to do it, you may want to consider cleaning the phenolic intake spacers and the 'worm' holes, as well, with the mileage you have on it...

[Petroleum]

Everyone,

I thank you very much for the advice. Saturday morning I will check the filter as advised and go and have the battery tested as well. I am not certain, but I believe the battery is relatively new.

And yes, I am a bit worried about how the check oil level light would come on, but it has not since the last oil change. And for the knock, I must admit that I am very nervous about it being a SERIOUS problem. *fingers crossed* carbon build up!

I am a bit weary about changing the starter b/c I might go through all that trouble only to find that it isn't that. So, these next two days I would be grateful of ALL the advise given (except selling my car; I take that to heart) b/c If I don't get it goin' by monday morning it's going to the garage.

Oh, one more thing... yes I know it is MUCH different than an F-150 and understand that prices are not the most pocket friendly, but I have thoroughly investigated all that I have said. I am a bit skeptical about buying an Engine online, but then again I might come upon a gem. Like a gentlemen who was part of this forum who not too long ago sold a BRAND NEW '96 Northstar 4.6L V8 for $2800. Man, that was a steal, but sadly, I came upon the auction 4 days late.

Like I've said, I truly hope nothing too budget crushing is the problem. I know lots of people and I have a gentlemen who is an exceptional mechanic that will overhaul it all for about 1600. But my father was explaining how there is a difference b/n an overhaul and a rebuilding. And another mechanic recommended by a good friend will swap out engines and transmissions for around 300; that is, if you know the right people. Let's just hope it doesn't get to that.

Finally, uhm, what does the acronym "OEM" stand for. I know it means manufacterer original, but I've always wondered about what it actually stood for. Also, and this is just throwing something in the air for discussion, I was contemplating putting either a 350/405 Chevy Small block in, but then thought twice about it; so then, I said to myself what about a newer model NorthStar engine. I found a 2005 STS Engine and transmission for around $4000 with less than 13K miles on it. But again, the green kicks in, new Cadillacs are rear-wheel drive I believe and that poses a good deal of challenge to the project, not including any other modifications necessary.

Thank you all again!

Petrol

[Scotty]

I believe it stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer

[Petroleum]

Will this starter work for me?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...mMakeTrack=true

[Willie Hank]

Will this starter work for me?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...mMakeTrack=true

I don't think I would buy any used electrical part over the internet, especially priced at about 40% of a parts house price....

I can't say whether the starter design has ever changed on a N*, but the ad does not disclose what year model it came from.

One more thing, OEM would indicate it is a genuine part, not a third party knock-off. Aftermarket parts are big in the auto parts industry, companies basically try to replicate the manufacturers design, and sometimes quality is compromised, especially if the 3rd party is overseas. That is why you will hear a lot of people on this board only recommend genuine Cadillac (GM) parts. For some reason, there is something very critical about the OEM (GM) alternator on the N*, and I don't know how many times I have read posts on this board where someone will buy an 'aftermarket' (3rd patry knock-off) and have subsequent problems, until they go back and put a new OEM unit in. Of course, there are, what I call 'dumb' parts, where a 3rd party part may be significantly cheaper and work just fine, such as mufflers/cat. converters, brake pads, and such.

I put a 3rd party starter (new, not rebuilt), in mine, which worked perfectly fine, had a warrenty and saved me about $ 120.

[Petroleum]

Hey everyone,

Just updating... This morning I wake up and my mom says, "Your car is running."

"Huh?"

"Yep, a mechanic friend of your Father sat in it, wiggled something and turned the key"

"And it is running???"

"Yes, go and see; something with your alarm he said."

So, it turns out the alarm had gotten stuck or something, I uhnno? One more thing. I just checked the oil and it is reading below the "Add" line. It has been little over a month since I had it changed. This is the second time I have had low reading from the same place, Wal-Mart. Should I go in to talk to a Manager or have a statement made by a mechanic, because I am not about to have my car ruined because of someones repeated mistake.

Petrol

Oh, and I work there. That is why I get it changed there b/c it is really convenient.

[Ranger]

It's gonna be pretty hard to complain to the manager unless you have proof that they shorted you on oil. If you have a reciept that shows 5 qts., I would definately complain. If not, check it next time right after the oil change.

There is plenty of oil still in there. When the oil drops off the tip of the stick you are at about 5 - 5 1/2 qts. The check oil level light will come on at about 5 qts. to alert you. You are not at any risk at 5 qts.