JasonA Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Who here has replaced them before? Are there any bearings that are NOT replaceable while the compressor is in the vehicle, and the system charged? The outer bearing as been replaced once before as I recall on this car. The A/C compressor gives off a rather loud "clackity clack" sound as it operates, which is relatively normal for a GM compressor I understand. But I think this is too loud. Noise only occurs when compressor is engaged. When freewheeling, it's very quiet. Any ideas/suggestions? Thanks. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyman Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 In the '96 eldorado I had it was opposite, when ENgaged, it would be silent, when DISengaged it was clackty- it turned out to be the brearing in the conpressor, I just replaced the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Who here has replaced them before? Are there any bearings that are NOT replaceable while the compressor is in the vehicle, and the system charged? The outer bearing as been replaced once before as I recall on this car. The A/C compressor gives off a rather loud "clackity clack" sound as it operates, which is relatively normal for a GM compressor I understand. But I think this is too loud. Noise only occurs when compressor is engaged. When freewheeling, it's very quiet. Any ideas/suggestions? Thanks. Jason, that is what mine sounded like and it died from a black death. There was no oil in my system when I took it apart, NONE. You may want to do an oil charge to see if it helps. My hub was bad also, but I had that clakkity clack that you are talking about, and believe it was the compressor itself... I would pull the serp belt and feel the hub and compressor to see if I could feel roughness. The hub and compressor can be felt independently, but turning the hub and the front part will turn the compressor.. You will probably need to remove the inspection covers in the wheel well, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Jason, Scotty is right, that compressor is most likely low on or out of oil. If it is making enough noise to where it is noticeable from inside the car, I think that you would be advised to bite the bullet now and replace it and the receiver dryer & orifice BEFORE it self destructs. You system will probably need to be flushed also. Is it still cooling now? If so, you may catch it before it contaminates the rest of the system. Good Luck, Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Jason, Scotty is right, that compressor is most likely low on or out of oil. If it is making enough noise to where it is noticeable from inside the car, I think that you would be advised to bite the bullet now and replace it and the receiver dryer & orifice BEFORE it self destructs. You system will probably need to be flushed also. Is it still cooling now? If so, you may catch it before it contaminates the rest of the system. Good Luck, Britt Britt is right Jason, due to the fact that my compressor died so badly, I needed to replace the condenser as they are darn near impossible to flush. Here is a photo of my orifice tube. If you can get someone to evacuate your system, you can pull your orifice tube and have a look to see if you are throwing particulate throughout your system... Here is what my orifice tube looked like when I pulled it, it was full of filings..... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted August 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thanks guys. Yeah, it cools great, just noisy. I can barely hear it when in the car. It's real noticeable outside of the car, standing by the front bumper. I'll look into the things suggested. Can I add an oil charge to the system without adding refrigerant? Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thanks guys. Yeah, it cools great, just noisy. I can barely hear it when in the car. It's real noticeable outside of the car, standing by the front bumper. I'll look into the things suggested. Can I add an oil charge to the system without adding refrigerant? Yes you can add an oil charge, they come in 2 oz cans I think... Yes mine was noisy outside the car, I once was at a wedding with it, and when the valet parking attendent pulled up with it, it was embarrising and sounded terrible. She sounds beautiful now however! Silent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 jadcock, You can try adding oil. It comes in a small can. However, once those compressors start rattling, it usually is just a matter of time. Once the compressor grenades, then your repair costs really go through the roof. If you try the oil & it doesn't quiet down completely, then I wouldn't wait. I think that it is probably too late to save it once it has started making noise. I would ask KHE what his opinion is. Good Luck, Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Britt brings up an interesting point. When mine was rattling, I added an oil charge, it was only slightly better when I did it, but I only added 2 oz... I don't know where the oil goes mine was dry as a bone, there is a total of 8 ounces, maybe Kevin will know, maybe the heat from the defective dry compressor evaporates it.. Knowing what I know now, I think it would be a good idea to evacuate the system and pull the orifice tube for a look, if it shows filings, you won't need to waste time with the oil, etc. If there are no filings you can have the AC shop give it as large as an an oil-charge as possible (Kevin and Britt how much oil can be added if the system is not flushed safely, with Jason's symptoms?)... I found a radiator shop that does AC work, and they charged me $25 to evacuate it, while I changed my sensors, afterall they are taking your 134A and putting it back, its just a matter of the time they spend doing the evacuating... After they evacuate it you can pull the orifice tube and check it, buy a new O-Ring from Caddy and replace it when you close it back up, its easy. Make sure you have the correct wrenches with you to do the job, they are some odd metric sizes..a good adjustable comes in handy. Here is a photo of the AC system if you decide to do the job, orifice tube is #2 (ignore the red circle this scan was for something else), Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Jason, You can replace the clutch bearing without messing with the refrigerant but replacing the internal bearings requires disassembly (and recovering the refrigerant). If the internal bearings were bad, I would install a new compressor as special fixturing is needed to properly align the case seals. Have you ever had to add refrigerant to the system? If so, you might just need an ounce of oil. The only oil I've seen in small cans is ester oil and your car takes PAG-150 oil. The only way to determine the quantity of oil is to drain the compressor and accumulator - something you don't want to do especially if your system is cooling well. I would have an ounce or two of PAG-150 oil injected and see if that quiets the system down. You might be able to find an honest A/C shop that would do this for you at a reasonable price. Many will want to R&R the compressor though...walk out and find another shop. My '93 Fleetwood has the R-4 compressor - after all these years, it needed a pound of R-12. Last year, it began making noise (it was still cooling fine) - I injected an ounce of 525 viscosity mineral oil and it became quiet again. I need to replace the shaft seal one of these days... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Kevin, I have seen Castrol 150 Pag oil in 2 oz. cans. But I was thinking that if Jason evacuates his system to take a look at the orifice tube for debris, he could have them add some oil when then recharge it.. He just told me that the hub bearing was replaced 80,000 miles ago, so its definately possible that he needs a hub bearing, he said however that its been making this noise for 4 years... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I’m in the process of replacing both the pulley and clutch. If the compressor is in generally good condition my advice would be to buy an ACDelco pulley and bearing as a unit for about $110, plus shipping, from www.rockauto.com which is where purchased mine. You should also consider replacing the clutch as well because it’s probably worn out. I’m waiting for the clutch (about $45.00) and should receive it any day. I took pictures of the process of removing the pulley if anyone is interested. Replacing the pulley bearing alone is a PITA, as removing the stakes having the bearing pressed out looks to be the only viable option. Anyway, sounds fine unless the pulley is shot and needs to be replaced since the surface where the clutch meets the pulley is no longer smooth/true. So if you buy the bearing ($34.00+ Cadillac dealer) you may not use it realizing it’s not the way to go. I speak from experience on this one. A clutch remover/installer can be purchased for about $15-25. To remove the pulley you'll need a puller and snap ring remover, which is a must. You could also buy a rebuilt compressor for as low as $150. If you don’t mind putting it on and recharging, it may be the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjayzway Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 How do you add oil in the system? I have no idea how, nor have I ever had to in the past. I thaught you just put more refridgerant in? Can someone give details on how to do it? Big Jay Life is too short to grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted August 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Kevin and Mac, thanks for your inputs. Mac, are you saying that I could buy a pulley/bearing combo (pre-staked) and just install that as a UNIT, rather than having to disassemble the pulley and bearing? I didn't know you could buy them together...and I agree -- that sounds like the way to go. Mac, if you could send me or post the pictures, I'd love that! At this point, and I discussed this with Scotty offline, this is what I think I'm going to do: - Have a shop evacuate the entire system. - I'll then pull the orifice tube (and probably just replace it) to look for debris. It appears that this tube acts as a "filter" in a sense (screen), so any debris should be accumulated there, right? - If the orifice tube is dirty, I'll put a rebuilt compressor on it. - If the orifice tube is clean, I'll button it back up, and go for changing the bearing, and have the system recharged. The A/C system on this car hasn't been touched before (save for Cadillac installing a new bearing about 80,000 miles ago). I figure it could use a good flush anyway. Is an A/C system flush by a good shop pretty safe (unlike a transmission flush)? I don't know ANYTHING about A/C systems, so I don't even know if there's such thing as a "flush". Do they just recharge it back up, or is there a pressure flush they can do on it? I'll defer to you experts on this one. What do you all think of my plan above? Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 How do you add oil in the system? I have no idea how, nor have I ever had to in the past. I thaught you just put more refridgerant in? Can someone give details on how to do it? Big Jay Two ways: You can buy oil charges - they have a couple of ounces of refrigerant included or use an oil injector to inject oil into the low side. I prefer the injector method personally but it takes a special tool. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Kevin and Mac, thanks for your inputs. Mac, are you saying that I could buy a pulley/bearing combo (pre-staked) and just install that as a UNIT, rather than having to disassemble the pulley and bearing? I didn't know you could buy them together...and I agree -- that sounds like the way to go. Mac, if you could send me or post the pictures, I'd love that! At this point, and I discussed this with Scotty offline, this is what I think I'm going to do: - Have a shop evacuate the entire system. - I'll then pull the orifice tube (and probably just replace it) to look for debris. It appears that this tube acts as a "filter" in a sense (screen), so any debris should be accumulated there, right? - If the orifice tube is dirty, I'll put a rebuilt compressor on it. - If the orifice tube is clean, I'll button it back up, and go for changing the bearing, and have the system recharged. The A/C system on this car hasn't been touched before (save for Cadillac installing a new bearing about 80,000 miles ago). I figure it could use a good flush anyway. Is an A/C system flush by a good shop pretty safe (unlike a transmission flush)? I don't know ANYTHING about A/C systems, so I don't even know if there's such thing as a "flush". Do they just recharge it back up, or is there a pressure flush they can do on it? I'll defer to you experts on this one. What do you all think of my plan above? You could remove the existing bearing/hub and check the bearing - if the existing bearing is OK, I wouldn't bother replacing it. You will need a puller to remove the hub. Pulling the orifice tube would tell you if there is any debris in the system - I wouldn't flush ulness you find debris. The condenser may need to be replaced as well as the parrallel flow condensers tend to be trash collectors if the compressor has failed. I still would have an ounce or two of oil injected and see if it quiets down before ripping into the system. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted August 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Thanks Kevin. I think I'll try the oil first, but ONLY because my car has been making this noise ever since I got it, so I'm not really sure imminent failure is right around the corner. If it just started making this noise, I probably wouldn't be comfortable with it, and I might take quicker action. The noise hasn't gotten any better or worse over the time I've owned the car...it's just annoying. Thanks. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 One point, whether you check the orifice tube or check the bearing on the compressor front side, you are going to loose freon, you might as well replace them both and the dryer. The orifice tube is $2, the bearing removal/installation tool is $25 at O'Reilly's or any part store, I am guessing the front seal kit to be $17. I can't say for the bearing, but replace it, it can't be much. If you do decide to remove the front seal/bearing, measure the gap between the clutch and the hub it resides on with a feeler gauge, You will need to maintain that gap. If you have a shop manual, it will probably instruct you on. One more point, about possible compressor replacment. Again and again I have been told not to buy 'rebuilt' compressors, with horror stories attached. You can get a new Delphi (HD6 I think..?), for about $ 250 - 280, depending where you look,...I'm pretty sure they build the OEM unit. I found a new Delphi HT6 (similar design, different mount for $280 locally. Scotty stated a while back he bought a new OEM for $240 over the internet, which had a Delphi sticker on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 jadcock, Yes. You can buy the bearing and pulley together as one part, pre-staked, the whole bit. I bought mine from RockAuto without a problem; however, today I received the wrong clutch. Instead of sending ACDelco Part No. 15-4692, which is what I ordered, they sent ACDelco Part No. 15-4702. Their vendor was having problems locating 15-4692 so it decided to send me the other one. I know this for a fact because I called RockAuto to find out why it was taking so long to ship my part. After I called they must FedEx’d the closest thing they could find. This evening I sent them an e-mail explaining the situation. I went to www.acdelco.com and couldn't find 15-4702 listed at all--But I sure was able to find 15-4692 list for my 94 Eldorado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Just to followup on this thread, I have an appointment at a local garage to diagnose my A/C system. This is a local garage that comes highly recommended by many folks at work, and I haven't had a chance to use them yet for work. I remember promising to do the A/C system as a project over the winter, but two things have helped to stall that effort: 1) A really short winter (it's been in the 80s here for a few days) 2) A really small amount of personal time (having too much fun with the baby, especially now in the spring) So now all of a sudden the warm weather's back, I forgot to do anything about it this winter, and I'm short on free time as it is with the young'un. They'll do a $45 standard service, which includes charging the system. He said they'll also inspect it for necessary component replacement. I've used the system only as needed over the winter (windshield defrosting), but now that spring is coming on full-bore, I'd like to go ahead and have a professional check the system and perform the work. It still cools just fine, just makes the noise when engaged (as it always has, ever since...forever). I'd like to have a silent A/C compressor, and one I know won't blow up on me. I'll let you all know how it goes. As an aside, we had to put the baby seat in the Cadillac for a few days as I tried to change the water pump on the Grand Caravan (long story). Why on earth people make the conscious decision to use a sedan today instead of a minivan, I don't know. I've had so many people ask me why on earth we'd want a minivan. I didn't know how much we really loved it until it was down for a day. But as it turns out, the water pump wasn't really bad anyway and I ended up just spending $20 on new coolant. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Don't let them install some chain store reman compressor if it comes to that. So many shops these days are "compressor changers". I know I sound like a broken record but...If the bearing is making noise, it can easily be replaced for a lot less than a new compressor. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Don't let them install some chain store reman compressor if it comes to that. So many shops these days are "compressor changers". I know I sound like a broken record but...If the bearing is making noise, it can easily be replaced for a lot less than a new compressor. I will second and third Kevin's above statement. I have had personal experience with "AutoZone". The first compressors case seals leaked. The second compressor had a hole that had been repaired with JB Weld. Then I was informed that the warranty on the second compressor expired after only two months! It seems that they will only honor the warranty period from the original purchace date! The bottom line is to get an OEM compressor and spend a few more bucks up front. By the time you change out the "store brand" twice, plus all the cleaning, orifice, "O" rings, oil and R-134 each time, not to mention down time for your ride, you will still have a junk compressor. By the time you bite the bullet and go with OEM parts, you will have spent two to three times what using OEM parts would have cost you in the first place! Don't a$k me how I know! Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 You guys are the experts, and I certainly value what you say. I've heard that a lot on here. The chain store remans will fail within a year or two. KHE, even if it's an internal bearing, are you suggesting that the shop should rebuild my original compressor, even if it means tearing it apart? If they balk at that, should I assume they're not really qualified to do it, and maybe I should look around for a true A/C shop? I don't mind doing the work myself here, but I was uncomfortable with properly diagnosing the system, which is why I'm more comfortable taking it to someone more knowledgable. If they tell me I need a new compressor, then I may consider buying an OEM compressor and doing it myself, and then having them charge it back up. Having worked at Advance Auto before, I know that the house brand rebuilds are pretty crappy. We didn't sell a lot of A/C compressors per se, but we got a lot of house brand starters and alternators returned bad. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 Jason, I was referring to the clutch pulley bearing - that can be replaced with the compressor on the car and you do not need to discharge the system. If the problem is an internal bearing, I'd replace the compressor with a new AC Delco unit. If the compressor needs to be replaced, have them check the orifice tube for debris from the reed valves in the compressor - if there is debris, a total system flush and condenser replacement is in order. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 Thanks Kevin. The external bearing was replaced much earlier on in the car's life, at a Cadillac dealer. The compressor is quiet until engaged, then it makes a racket. I understand this to be internal issues. I'll definitely have them inspect the indicated parts of the system. Thanks again. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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