Same Year DVD Upgrade

[OynxSTS]

My appologies, I know this has been covered in the past, But the other threads were all about upgrading an '02 CD NAV system to '01 and earlier (CD ROM Based) cars.

The price an avaliablity of used '02 and newer Nav systems have reached a point were they are inline (even cheaper) than aftermarket systems...

And my Wife is looking for a cool gift for my 40th.

My question is this... If I find a DVD Nav system from an '02 would it plug and play into my '02 that came with the UM5 (I think thats the RPO) Bose radio.

Other than the dealer flashing the theft system of the new radio with my VIN is anything else required?

[RDWRIOR]

My question is this... If I find a DVD Nav system from an '02 would it plug and play into my '02 that came with the UM5 (I think thats the RPO) Bose radio.

Other than the dealer flashing the theft system of the new radio with my VIN is anything else required?

OynxSTS,

I have commented on this topic before, both on this forum and in its previous version. The following is a link to the last post I made here on this subject (from May 2004):

DVD Navigation

Anyway, besides installing the navigation radio in place of the existing cassette/CD unit, you will need to make two other modifications before the navigation system will be identical to the factory installation. First, you will need to add a second GPS antenna, which connects only to the navigation radio. Second, you will need to add a dedicated "4KPPM" vehicle speed signal wire to the navigation radio's wiring -- the non-navigation radio lacks this wire.

The second GPS antenna is installed at the factory under the "package shelf" trim panel (above and behind the rear seat back), just like the OnStar system's GPS antenna, but the cable is much longer to reach the rear of the navigation radio. On some other GM vehicles, this second GPS antenna was mounted in the instrument panel, underneath the trim panel, so perhaps you can find a suitable place for it in the Seville's instrument panel. Keep in mind that the GPS antenna must "see" the satellites in the sky through the windshield and not be covered by any metal.

The 4KPPM signal can be "tapped" from the instrument cluster, and the new wire run down to the radio's wiring connector. (To do this job really well, you probably should try to terminate this wire with the proper terminal for the radio so that it can plug into the empty terminal cavity in the existing connector body; the connector uses all identical terminals, so you just need one like the kind that are already there.) The navigation radio may function without this added signal, since the vehicle speed is "broadcast" via the Class 2 serial data network, which is also connected to the radio. I can only guess as to why the redundant wired signal is needed. . . perhaps because of the "latency" of the Class 2 vehicle speed report messages. In any case, how the radio will react without the signal is unknown to me -- it may be completely benign, and/or just set a DTC, which you could ignore. Or, perhaps the system will refuse to function entirely without the signal. (???)

In summary, changing over the DVD navigation radio is not simply a plug-and-play operation, but the two additional modifications are not extensive, in and of themselves. Assuming that you can find a mounting location for the second GPS antenna in the instrument panel, then the installation really requires no more than removing the I/P top trim panel, which is relatively easy if you know what you are doing; knowing the work that you have performed by yourself in the past, I think that it is probably within your capabilities. However, mounting the antenna under the package shelf and routing the cable back to the radio (i.e., the "factory" installation) requires much more disassembly of the interior -- again, this is nothing that you couldn't accomplish, but the practicality diminishes, in my opinion.

Finally, I must state again that I have never performed this type of modification, and I do not (yet) know anyone who has performed it successfully. Although I have no reason to doubt that the installation that I described above would function properly, I cannot guarantee its success.

(Maybe you are willing to be the "guinea pig" for everyone else who might like to do this installation?! )

Good luck!

[OynxSTS]

Thanks Road ...

When I first suggested this to my wife she just about fell off of her chair... She noted that it took me countless frustrating trips to the dealer to get the “original” radio to work right and now I wanted to yank it out and replace it with a touch screen… needless to say she thinks the screen isn’t the only thing in the car that is a little “touched”.

I had read your post from ’04 and was interested in the 4000 pulse per miles signal… Basically I assumed that this is needed to:

1)Switch off data entry mode while the car is moving

2) Prevent DVD movies from being played if the car is in motion and

3) Perform some “dead reckoning” if it looses site of the satellites (like happens down town all of the time)

I was hoping that as you note that this info was carried on the class 2 serial bus.. So I was ½ right; its there but I will probably have to add a pulse wire this for my ’02 as well… I have read that some one out there has plug and played one of these into an 04 Escalade… But when you press people for details they usually change the subject.

I will try this! Probably an ’07 project though

Did you ever get that Varajet re-built?

[Marika]

My question is this... If I find a DVD Nav system from an '02 would it plug and play into my '02 that came with the UM5 (I think thats the RPO) Bose radio.

Other than the dealer flashing the theft system of the new radio with my VIN is anything else required?

OynxSTS,

I have commented on this topic before, both on this forum and in its previous version. The following is a link to the last post I made here on this subject (from May 2004):

DVD Navigation

Anyway, besides installing the navigation radio in place of the existing cassette/CD unit, you will need to make two other modifications before the navigation system will be identical to the factory installation. First, you will need to add a second GPS antenna, which connects only to the navigation radio. Second, you will need to add a dedicated "4KPPM" vehicle speed signal wire to the navigation radio's wiring -- the non-navigation radio lacks this wire.

The second GPS antenna is installed at the factory under the "package shelf" trim panel (above and behind the rear seat back), just like the OnStar system's GPS antenna, but the cable is much longer to reach the rear of the navigation radio. On some other GM vehicles, this second GPS antenna was mounted in the instrument panel, underneath the trim panel, so perhaps you can find a suitable place for it in the Seville's instrument panel. Keep in mind that the GPS antenna must "see" the satellites in the sky through the windshield and not be covered by any metal.

The 4KPPM signal can be "tapped" from the instrument cluster, and the new wire run down to the radio's wiring connector. (To do this job really well, you probably should try to terminate this wire with the proper terminal for the radio so that it can plug into the empty terminal cavity in the existing connector body; the connector uses all identical terminals, so you just need one like the kind that are already there.) The navigation radio may function without this added signal, since the vehicle speed is "broadcast" via the Class 2 serial data network, which is also connected to the radio. I can only guess as to why the redundant wired signal is needed. . . perhaps because of the "latency" of the Class 2 vehicle speed report messages. In any case, how the radio will react without the signal is unknown to me -- it may be completely benign, and/or just set a DTC, which you could ignore. Or, perhaps the system will refuse to function entirely without the signal. (???)

In summary, changing over the DVD navigation radio is not simply a plug-and-play operation, but the two additional modifications are not extensive, in and of themselves. Assuming that you can find a mounting location for the second GPS antenna in the instrument panel, then the installation really requires no more than removing the I/P top trim panel, which is relatively easy if you know what you are doing; knowing the work that you have performed by yourself in the past, I think that it is probably within your capabilities. However, mounting the antenna under the package shelf and routing the cable back to the radio (i.e., the "factory" installation) requires much more disassembly of the interior -- again, this is nothing that you couldn't accomplish, but the practicality diminishes, in my opinion.

Finally, I must state again that I have never performed this type of modification, and I do not (yet) know anyone who has performed it successfully. Although I have no reason to doubt that the installation that I described above would function properly, I cannot guarantee its success.

(Maybe you are willing to be the "guinea pig" for everyone else who might like to do this installation?! )

Good luck!

Haven't seen you in ages! Welcome back!

[Logan]

The word is 'class 2' data communication.

There is a GM service bulletin about swapping modules/radios etc. Pzzzzzzz.

You are asking for more headaches then its worth trying to get it to work.

The big guys thought the money would be here. They did not expect cell phones, GPS units progress over the last 10 years etc. See 'bluetooth.'

Now you can buy GPS systems for maybe what? $600...can be moved from car to car?

Screw the DVD system. Go aftermarket.

Just my opion.

[OynxSTS]

Any chance Logan you would have a link to, or could you post contents of, the Service Bulletin...

In the past GM has never let me down... When I wanted to put a 700R4 in my '83 Z28... Ta Da here is a kit (mostly just electrical connectors some instructions and a spring for the governor... Very expensive for what you got… But it worked). When I wanted to put an "OE" remote entry system into my Allante... Ta Da here is a kit... When I wanted to swap an Olds 350 into my '87 442... OK this is a stretch... But Ta Da there is a kit to do this with 350 Chevy motors into F Bodies... but the CCC QJet was basically the same and the carb mods for that swap worked perfectly for my G body... I bought the instuction book and the carb rods and I was off to the races (pun intended)

If it really is as simple as Road says you'd think that GM would build and sell a kit... I for one would pay $50-100 for 2-3 pages of instructions and a 3' wire with the right "pins" at each end. Salvaged systems with the GPS antenna are going for less than $600 on evil bay...

But the main driver is OEM installs look cool

[Logan]

DTCs B1001, B1271 or B1780 Set When Replacing/Reprogramming Other Modules

1999-2003 Passenger Cars and Trucks

with Class 2 Serial Data Communication Between Modules

This bulletin is being revised to add model years and reflect changes in the Tech 2 procedure and filing classification. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 99-06-03-010A (Section 6 -- Engine).

Class 2 Serial Data Communication allows control modules (i.e. the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), the Body Control Module (BCM), the Dash Integration Module (DIM), the Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC), the radio, the Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) Controller, and the Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM) to exchange information. This information may be operational information or identification information. Among the identification information exchanged and compared within these modules is the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). Typically the one module, the master module, broadcasts the VIN and all the other modules compare the VIN stored within itself. When the broadcast VIN does not match the VIN stored within the SDM, the following actions occur:

DTC B1001 Option Configuration Error is set and deployment of the airbags is inhibited.

DTC B1271 or a DTC B1780 Theft Locked. The VIN information is also used by the radio. When the VIN does not match the VIN stored within the radio, DTC B1271 or DTC B1780 is set and the radio is inoperative.

Additionally, the master module will compare the SDM's part number (last four digits) to determine if the correct SDM is installed in the vehicle. If the SDM is the wrong part, a B1001 will also set.

This situation may occur when a vehicle is being repaired. When a PCM or a body control type module is replaced, the VIN information must be programmed into the replaced (new) control module. A module which has had VIN information entered into it (for example, one taken from another vehicle) cannot be reprogrammed. VIN information can only be entered into new modules. The ignition must be ON in order to program the control module. Since the VIN information is broadcast when the ignition goes to ON from any other ignition switch position, DTCs may be set in the SDM and/or the radio. Therefore, always follow the specified control module replacement procedures.

After completing the repair, turn OFF the ignition for at least 30 seconds.

Turn ON the ignition and check for DTCs using a Tech 2® scan tool. If DTCs B1001, B1271, or B1780 are present with a history status, DO NOT REPLACE THE SDM OR THE RADIO.

Clear the DTCs from all modules using the Tech 2 scan tool.

Remove the Tech 2® from the vehicle

Ensure the proper operation of the SDM by turning OFF the ignition and then turning ON the ignition. The air bag warning indicator should flash seven times and then go OFF.

Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 99-09-41-001 for additional information regarding proper reprogramming of the new/replaced module.

Clearing codes from the other modules is part of the replacement and reprogramming procedure for the replaced module. The repair is not complete unless all codes have been cleared from all modules.

[OynxSTS]

Thanks Logan...

This situation may occur when a vehicle is being repaired. When a PCM or a body control type module is replaced, the VIN information must be programmed into the replaced (new) control module. A module which has had VIN information entered into it (for example, one taken from another vehicle) cannot be reprogrammed. VIN information can only be entered into new modules.

Do I take that to mean that once a radio is coded with a VIN it can never be recoded with a new VIN and reused in a different vehicle?

This only relates to the PCM, ECM and BCMs right?