DoubleBadger Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hi, everyone. I DESPERATELY need your thoughts, insight, advice...anything you can offer is GREATLY appreciated. I was driving my 2000 Eldorado ESC with 52,200 miles home this afternoon when I heard metal grinding. I couldn't tell if it was under the car or in the hood. It happened so fast. So I pulled off to the side as quick as I could and shut her down (or maybe the engine shut down itself...it all happened so quickly). I had AAA tow me into the local shop and they just called and said that "the engine is seized up because 1 of the connecting rods went through the side of the block...it failed internally. The block cracked" and it caused great stress on everything including the heads. Said it was a total loss and if I wanted to put a new engine in, put in a salvaged/rebuilt engine, or sell the car. My mind isn't working too clearly right now, so I need help from those who know these engines (and from someone whose heart isn't beating like a jackhammer). 1. Is this a common problem? I do not drive with a lead foot (I was going about 30 mph when it happend) and I have never beaten the engine. Honest and truly, I just didn't do it and never have. (I'm unemployed right now so I couldn't afford to pay for even the gas if I wanted to beat the car.) I have always changed the oil per the OLM (or sooner in most cases) and I just had the Dex-Cool replaced by a Caddy dealer so neither service nor my driving style should be an issue. 2. How much do you think (ballpark guesses are great) a new/rebuilt/salvaged engine would run me installed? 3. Would it pay to have it towed to the Caddy dealer (about 25 miles away). Will anyone at GM help me or am I totally on my own here? There are probably other questions I will have, but any thoughts are really appreciated. Now if I could just relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Badger, did you actually see the cracked engine block? The only thing I know of in a Northstar that can cause a catastrophic event like a rod through the block is “hydrolock’, a phenomena where a large a mount of fluid is introduced to a combustion chamber while the engine is running. If this does happen, things are over very quickly.. The most likely source of that fluid would be coolant. Have you had any problems with coolant loss lately? '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleBadger Posted July 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Bob: Thanks for your reply! No, I haven't had any coolant loss. I did have the coolant serviced at the local Caddy dealer about a month ago. And I haven't seen any puddles or leaks since then, and I haven't gotten any "Check Coolant Level" messages either and my temperature gauge has been in the "normal" range. And I drove the car from Tucson to Phoenix and back on Wednesday and it was running great. I haven't actually seen the crack, I'll probably head down to the shop tomorrow. But when they towed me away, there were a couple of small chunks of metal on the ground in the drops of oil that were out on the road. And they had real jagged edges (like they had been chewed up and spit out or something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32v_dohc Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 1. Nope very unusual. Unless to engine has been taken apart before I would find the diagnosis hard to beleive. 3. Just have them show you the side of the block where the exit wound is. This is a diagnosis that you can make yourself. They should be able to show you a crack or an exit hole. HTH John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Not normal at all. Northstars are very strong engines and infact beating on them hard is actually good for them, not detrimental. If you can prove that it is a mechanical failure (as opposed to neglect) and the dealer will work with you, you may get GM to go 50/50 with you on a new engine if it is out of warranty. Even 50/50 will cost about $5000. You can probably get a used engine installed for a bit less. It sure can't hurt to tow it to a dealer and see what they can do. You can always decline the offer in which case all your out is the tow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Yep, time for some facts. Get a look at the condition of the block, coolant level , and any associated evidence. As far as probabilities go, is it extremely rare to almost unheard of for a Northstar's bottom end to just come apart. They are known for thier strength. ** If you can and they are relevent to the failure, try and take some pictures and post them here. Good luck. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhall Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Doublebadger, Doesn't sound too good - especially with the metal chunks, but take a good look at the front of the engine and make sure the outer rim of your harmonic balancer didn't break loose and push through the timing chain cover. Pull the passenger wheel for a good view. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleBadger Posted July 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Thanks for your replies, everyone. Let me just see if I can synthesize all of your ideas into one. I guess one thing I want to look at is the coolant level. Like I said, I haven't seen any puddles of coolant on the ground, and it appeared to be oil that was on the ground, but it could be a hydrolock. I also want to see where the rod went through the block. A couple more facts. I bought the car used with about 28,000 miles on it a little over 3 years ago so I don't know what problems the former owner did/didn't have. Responding to 32v_DOHC's thought that it's unusual for a rod to bust through the block unless the engine had been worked on before, would a CarFax show this? It hasn't been worked on since I've owned the car, but maybe it was before I bought it?? Would there be any kind of warranty on such work? Sorry if I'm not making sense here. I'm just seriously bummed. Thanks again, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Carfax is not likely to show any mechanical work I don't think. If the engine had lower end work done on it before you owned it and a rod cap was improperly torqued I would suspect it would have let loose long before this. Warranty on such work is usually one year and even then, they would not roll over and bite the bullet on a new engine easily. Post some real close up pictures if you can of the cracked block, hole in the block, damaged rod, rod cap, crank journals, cylinder walls etc. Those pictures can tell alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Most GM products have a 60k powertrian warranty to some extent. Not sure of the exact details.... I cant find the bulletin right now....seems I remember a TSB about some goofy crankshaft failures around 2000 year... Anyway, being such low mileage. I suspect GM may help you on this one. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjayzway Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 I am almost positive GM will work with you on this one. When you do get it fixed(and you will) don't baby it so much. These N* will build up a lot of carbon, and are built to take whatever you can give them....When is the last time you had it WOT? It was here that I learned about cleaning these N* out with WOT, and I'll tell you, since I did this a few times to my wifes...NO MORE KNOCK! Post some real close up pictures if you can of the cracked block, hole in the block, damaged rod, rod cap, crank journals, cylinder walls etc. Those pictures can tell alot. There are some really great guys on here that will help you more than any shop will, so the pics are a definate! Big Jay Life is too short to grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Found the crankshaft bulletin. Its for 2001 model....just a few engines involved... 01012 -- Engine Crankshaft Misbuild -- Replace Engine Certain 2001 Cadillac DeVille, Seville, Eldorado Model Vehicles Equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8 - VIN Code Y or RPO L37 - VIN Code 9) Engine THIS CAMPAIGN BULLETIN ADDRESSES VEHICLES IN DEALER INVENTORY AND VEHICLES DELIVERED TO CUSTOMERS. VEHICLES THAT PASS THE INSPECTION PROCEDURE WILL BE RELEASED FROM THE STOP DELIVERY ISSUED JANUARY, 2001 TO U.S. DEALERS VIA DCS MESSAGES WIS20010001 THROUGH WIS20010005 AND VIA E-MAIL TO CANADIAN DEALERS. DEALER INVENTORY AND CUSTOMER VEHICLES THAT DO NOT PASS THE INSPECTION HAVE SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS. SEE THE SERVICE PROCEDURE FOR DETAILS. Condition General Motors has decided that certain 2001 Cadillac DeVille, Seville and Eldorado model vehicles, equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8 - VIN Code Y; RPO L37 - VIN Code 9) engine, may exhibit a condition in which the engine crankshaft micro finish on the #1 pin and #5 main bearing may cause wear damage to the crankshaft, which can cause an engine knock noise and possible catastrophic damage to the engine. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjayzway Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Here is 2 recalls on your vehicle, and what they will do for it! Try this site http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/recalls/rec...&year=&cmd=prev Make: CADILLAC Model: ELDORADO Affected Year(s): 2000 Units Affected: 152 TC Recall #: 1999235 Manufacturer: Campaign Code: 99085 Recall Details On certain vehicles, the crankshaft position sensors may fail and cause an intermittent engine chuggle, stall or possible long starting crank time and/or a no-start condition, as well as illumination of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL). Correction: Dealers will replace both crankshaft position sensors. Make: CADILLAC Model: ELDORADO TOURIN Affected Year(s): 1997 Units Affected: 7303 TC Recall #: 1997091 Manufacturer: Campaign Code: 97020 Recall Details THESE VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT A CONDITION IN WHICH THE ELECTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL MODULE OR THE ELECTRONIC BRAKE AND TRACTION CONTROL MODULE MAY CAUSE THE ANTILOCK BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) TO CYCLE DURING A NON-ABS APPLICATION. THIS MAY RESULT IN AN INCREASE IN STOPPING DISTANCE AND A POSSIBLE VEHICLE CRASH. CORRECTION: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE ELECTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL MODULE. Good Luck! Big Jay Life is too short to grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTS_driver Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Hey doublebadger I had a very very simular case as yours, Read my entire Topic that I had going for about a month and that was the worst month of the year that i had. first thing you want to do is contact previous owners of your cadillac, try looking in your owners manual and see if they had filled out the maintenance schedule booklet with there information, thats what i stumbuled upon in mine, try to find out if any major engine work was done under warrenty and which would maybe cause future problem like this. did you buy this caddy at the dealer? find out which dealer serviced the engine and get on the phone with cadillac assistance ASAP, because they will take there sweet time on your case . http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...1&hl=dts+driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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