Scotty Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 I just went out to get lunch.. Car started just bearly, and died immediately then it was dead, all the lights come on the dashboard and the horn works. I checked the terminal connections and as usual the positive cable was badly corroded with green and white acid. I cleaned up the terminal and put it back together now all it does is click. My volt meter shows 9.3 volts. It started up this morning at 5 AM just fine. 1) Could this low level of charge be caused by the corrosion? 2) Can an AC Delco battery have a green light (dim but green) and be bad? 3) I dont know how old this battery is. Any ideas? I am thinking of going to Sears and buying a battery charger and charge it up but if the battery has a dead cell the money might be better spent buying a new battery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Scotty I've had them work and the eye was black and others that wouldn't even jump but the eye was bright green, go figure! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Scotty I've had them work and the eye was black and others that wouldn't even jump but the eye was bright green, go figure! Joe Thanks, maybe it has a dead cell. Maybe I should just replace the battery, maybe the battery is the reason that I was having trouble all along with corrosion on the positive terminal, every three months I need to clean it due to a no start condition... Happy Birthday to me..... A new battery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 I hope its easier to put in a Deville than a Seville, mine was a real knuckle scrapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Its pretty easy in my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Chances are the battery is original... It is time to change. I had good luck with DieHard Gold. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince P Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Scotty, The green charge indicater is just reading one cell. There may be other cells that are bad. What I would do: 1. Take a voltage reading at the battery as it is charging. Should read from 13 to 15 Volts 2. Get a battery reading with the engine off. Should read above 12.0volts 3. I would remove the cables and charge with a charger overnight. (I guess you can keep the cables on. The idea is to have a low charge for a long period. 4. Coat the battery terminals with a product called No-Ox (a non oxidation compound) or equivalent. 5. Reconnect the battery and check the battery voltage while cranking the engine for about 30 seconds (how do you do this??). The battery voltage should read above 9.0 volts. 6. You may want to check the voltage drop in the cable between the Positive battery terminal and the starter motor while the engine is cranking. Should not be greater than 0.2 volts. This may be difficult to do, given the location of the starter motor on the Northstar engine. Hope this helps. Vince P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Thanks guys, Sears has a battery sitting there for me, a Diehard Gold, I am going to get it before dinnertime and get this over with. I am thinking that I am going to change the positive battery cables they look pretty badly corroded. Thanks for the info Adallak and Vince, Vince I am going to look for that No-Ox, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Mike, As you know, the intake manifold needs to come off to gain access to the starter solenoid. If you don't already have the tool to disconnect the fuel lines, you will need one before you can replace the positive cable. Be careful upon reconnecting the fuel lines. The locking tabs can easily be damaged. I have found that a small amount of Dow 4 compound on the male part of the fuel line connection will help on reassembly. More than likely, your battery had a leak where the connector goes through the battery case. This allows electrolyte to seep into the battery connection, causing the recurring corrosion that you have experienced. Replacing the positive cables is a good idea. I have seen cables where the electrolyte had wicked up the cable strands and caused corrosion under the insulation. I, too have experienced a Delco battery with a Bright green eye that wouldn't even light a dome light. As Vince P said, the eye is only checking one cell. If the eye in your battery was in the cell hooked to the positive terminal, then it would have probably been black for a long time. These engines start so easily, that a bad battery could (and does) go unnoticed until it fails completely! Britt PS: How were the wrecks that you visited in B? Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Mike, As you know, the intake manifold needs to come off to gain access to the starter solenoid. If you don't already have the tool to disconnect the fuel lines, you will need one before you can replace the positive cable. Be careful upon reconnecting the fuel lines. The locking tabs can easily be damaged. I have found that a small amount of Dow 4 compound on the male part of the fuel line connection will help on reassembly. More than likely, your battery had a leak where the connector goes through the battery case. This allows electrolyte to seep into the battery connection, causing the recurring corrosion that you have experienced. Replacing the positive cables is a good idea. I have seen cables where the electrolyte had wicked up the cable strands and caused corrosion under the insulation. I, too have experienced a Delco battery with a Bright green eye that wouldn't even light a dome light. As Vince P said, the eye is only checking one cell. If the eye in your battery was in the cell hooked to the positive terminal, then it would have probably been black for a long time. These engines start so easily, that a bad battery could (and does) go unnoticed until it fails completely! Britt PS: How were the wrecks that you visited in B? Thanks Britt for the good info... I never went diving in Bermuda, I am less than a novice and when I saw the dive boat head straight out into the Atlantic Ocean I chickened out! All of the divers looked experienced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdictas Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Mike, Get the battery load tested before you spend the money. Sears or autozone will do it for free. By the way, how did the tranny work go. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 OMG!!!!! What a HUGE difference. I must have had a battery problem since I got the car two years ago, the starter turned very slow.... With this new Sears Diehard GOLD battery it does NOT even sound like the same car... the starter spins 100% faster now. I also noticed that I had a streak of green acid streaking below the positive terminal right to the bottom of the battery... What a difference, I am lucky that I did not hurt my starter or alternator... Thanks for all the help and input, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Mike, Get the battery load tested before you spend the money. Sears or autozone will do it for free. By the way, how did the tranny work go. Chuck Chuck, if you are referring to my replacing the shift solenoids when I drop the pan, the job is on the list and will be done at some point this summer, Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjayzway Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Scotty. I find a lot of people will tighten the battery down way too much! This will crack the case, and give you problems like you were having. I would make sure the battery is half a turn more than snug, and that is it. Any more and over time the same thing will happen again. I am glad you are happy now. Big Jay Life is too short to grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Well I was surprised to see that the battery IS in fact leaking. I went into the garage this morning and the side of the battery is wet.... My positive cable must be shot.... Anyone know how much the positive cable costs? That should be a fun job taking the intake off to get to the starter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Well I was surprised to see that the battery IS in fact leaking. I went into the garage this morning and the side of the battery is wet.... My positive cable must be shot.... Anyone know how much the positive cable costs? That should be a fun job taking the intake off to get to the starter... Mike, Do you mean that the NEW battery is leaking? If Sears put it in, then they should warranty it. Make sure that you clean up & neutralize any spilled electrolyte! Removing the intake manifold is not a big deal. Other than the fuel lines, everything else is pretty straight forward. Just follow the procedure in the manual. The intake gaskets are supposed to be reusable. I think I recall Guru saying that you can touch them up with Hi Temp RTV if the seal lips are damaged. I've always opted for new ones. On my 94, there are just four bolts that hold the complete intake manifold on. It is not a bad job. I hesitated before I did it the first time. Now I can get it off, clean the spacer plates (93 & 94 only) & reassemble it in under two hours. When you replace the battery cable, be sure that you get a new lead spacer that is installed between the two cables. Over the years they get thinner as they are retorqued time & time again. If it gets thin enough, then the bolt will bottom in the battery connection. It will be impossible to get the cables tight enough without adding washers. Give some thought to replacing the bolt also. I seem to recall that the side terminal batteries have a specific torque, but I can't recall what it is. A/C Delco used to make a special torque wrench for the side terminal batteries. I have one in my tool box at the airport, but it doesn't tell what the torque is. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Britt, Sorry, the old battery was in my garage and it was leaking. Quite bad I might add. Do you think I should replace my positive cable as a result of this corrosion that has creeped up the wire? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Britt, Sorry, the old battery was in my garage and it was leaking. Quite bad I might add. Do you think I should replace my positive cable as a result of this corrosion that has creeped up the wire? Mike I'd wait and see how the car performs before changing the cable. If it starts fine and repeatedly, then I'd forget about changing the cable. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike5514 Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I think what I would do is replace the positive terminal on the cable first if you can. Check and see if there is enough slack in the cable and cut off the end go far enough back on the cable to where the corrision ends double check with baking soda attach the new end and as britt suggested replace the lead spacer if there is one between the cables (i have never liked the two cable attachment to the positive terminal it just begs for corrision) tighten with a 5/16 6 point socket or wrench it will be a medium pull for that size socket/wrench. Get some of the red and green corrision preventers while you are buying the new terminal and use them. Seeing that the new battery is starting the car better even using the old cable you just might get away with just soaking the old terminal in baking soda/water solution strip the insulation back a inch and twist the wire as your soaking it. I carry a wrench in the car and if I have a no crank condition I use the wrench to loosen and tighten the terminal that should get you home if you are on the road.Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdictas Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Mike, If you decide to tackle the cable, please take some pictures and post them. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I think what I would do is replace the positive terminal on the cable first if you can. Check and see if there is enough slack in the cable and cut off the end go far enough back on the cable to where the corrision ends double check with baking soda attach the new end and as britt suggested replace the lead spacer if there is one between the cables (i have never liked the two cable attachment to the positive terminal it just begs for corrision) tighten with a 5/16 6 point socket or wrench it will be a medium pull for that size socket/wrench. Get some of the red and green corrision preventers while you are buying the new terminal and use them. Seeing that the new battery is starting the car better even using the old cable you just might get away with just soaking the old terminal in baking soda/water solution strip the insulation back a inch and twist the wire as your soaking it. I carry a wrench in the car and if I have a no crank condition I use the wrench to loosen and tighten the terminal that should get you home if you are on the road.Mike Thats a great idea, but I don't think there is any slack, I'll take a closer look however. I don't think this cable is too easy to replace, in the old days I wouldn't have hesitated to replace it. There appear to be two cables, the battery cable that goes to the relay center and alternator and the starter/starter relay cable. The latter appears to be the hard one to replace. Looks like one of those jobs to add to the wish list....I could see doing the cables if I ever pull the valve covers off to replace the seals/gaskets or if I ever need to replace the starter. Thanks guys for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 . . . . I could see doing the cables if . . . . I ever need to replace the starter. Here's hoping you never have that opportunity. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I personally would not touch cables which are just some nine years old if there is no problem to start the car and such. Cables are expensive and some grounds are not easy to access. Besides we know that particular car is well taken care of so Mike, do not waste your time and money. If the positive terminal looks really bad just cut it off and put a new one. But even this may be just some overreaction. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Mike, If there is corrosion inside the cable, it will cause the resistance to become greater, resulting in heat buildup & failure,,,,eventually. Take a close look at the cable end If you can see corrosion coming out from under the red plastic. If it is, corrosion is most likely wicking up into the cable strands. The cable will feel stiff right behind the terminal if there is corrosion in there. I have seen some replacement ends that come with about 6" of cable, a crimp on connector and some self sealing heat shrink. I cannot remember if NAPA or Belden made the above kit. The 6" of cable will usually give you enough to cut out any corroded cable. This approach would work well on a N* if one was in a hurry. The self sealing heat shrink is a nice touch. I have never seen one of these fail if installed correctly. I had an '83 diesel Suburban, and I repaired the battery cables with this method. As you know the 6.2 diesel had a huge amp draw on starting. These ends never showed any tendency to heat up, which showed me that they didn't increase the resistance in the cable. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95SLS Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 My grandfather used to rebuild Battery's. What you discribe is same as a dead or shorted cell. Also Delco Battery's are top of the line but have a reputation for leaking. I'd go with a high and aftermarket. The Pos cable has to be a pain to change. You know where it goes right. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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