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Driver Mirror Parts?


OynxSTS

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First, the good news I'm getting really good at installing and uninstalling the mirrors in their housing on the doors.

Now the bad news, my driver door is now generating a "Current DDM B1591" (up/down memory senor fault) and it has a historic B3832 (bad mirror circuit)...

My dealer tells me that the mirror is serviced as an assembly ONLY... i.e. you can't by the motors or sensors separately... :( Oh ya and its like $600CAN! :(:( even with my friends and family discount!! He was amazed that I could even get the glass on and off in one piece... B)

The mirror works OK up and down motors are fine, Left and right are a little slow, but not too bad…

My questions to this great group...

1) Are there part numbers for just the motor and sensor bits or is my dealer right...

2) Are these parts rebuildable... should I take them apart and clean them out?

3) Any suggestions?

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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OynxSTS,

Unlike some of your past experiences, this time your dealer is completely correct regarding the servicing of the outside rear view mirrors (OSRVMs) on your STS. The mirror is serviced as an entire assembly, and none of the individual parts are available separately, at least as GM service parts. :(

I actually removed one of these mirrors from a Seville that was going to be scrapped, and I partially disassembled it, so I know the design very well. The bottom line is that there is no practical way to remove the "motor pack" from the mirror assembly. So, if the motor pack/sensor unit is the true root cause of your problems, the only real solution is to install a replacement mirror assembly. For that matter, I do not think that there is any benefit in you trying to partially disassemble the mirror and "clean" the parts, as the motors and sensors are all located inside a sealed housing which likely would be broken while trying to disassemble it.

You probably already know this, but the brand-new mirror units from GM service parts are "paint to match" parts.

Are you sure that the mirror sensor problem is a fault of the mirror itself? It could be a problem related to wiring. Also, according to my online GM service manual, the DTC B3832 that you mentioned is unrelated to the mirrors -- it is associated with the express up/down front window motors, which may only need reprogramming. Unfortunately, properly diagnosing the mirror really requires a GM service manual and a Tech 2 scanner tool. However, the window programming does not require a Tech 2; the process is described in the service manual.

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Thanks for the reply Road...

The B3832 was historic and hasn't come back since I cleared the codes about a week ago... and the window continues to work perfectly.

Back to the mirror... After I yanked off the glass and let it dangle on its connectors I could turn the B1591 "historic" by moving the "Up/Down" sensor "in and out" after pressing a memory button... It was fun watching the little motor try to figure out where the mirror was as I moved the sensors in an out...It would turn left and then turn right... way cool...

So I figured the little sensor must be unsnapped from the glass and this is the issue. So I snapped the sensor in "first" BEFORE I pressed the mirror in with a 2x3... So I'm 90% certain that the up/down sensor is connected... right away I get a “B1591 Current” after I try Memory 1 and/or a Memory 2... I'm guessing, but it looks like the sensor might have a "dead" spot... I guess there is no way to look for a short without a Tech II...

Two questions:

1) The car is barely off warrantee (~ 52,000 miles ) any chance of sweet talking a dealer into fixing it

2) I did buy a complete mirror assembly on evil bay… It sounds like swapping the motor and sensors from the black one that I ebayed to the blue one on the car is not a great idea… you know to avoid painting…

And a hint... This all started after my kids and I hand washed the car...

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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2) I did buy a complete mirror assembly on evil bay… It sounds like swapping the motor and sensors from the black one that I ebayed to the blue one on the car is not a great idea… you know to avoid painting…

You should be able to switch the motor assembly from one mirror to the other. You will have to pull the door panel off in order to unplug the wires. You can also check the wires for shorts with the panel off. I think the motor just screws to the mirror housing. I bought just a mirror motor for my 94 Concours off Ebay, so I know the motor comes out in a Deville.

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Thanks Paul...

I do have the Helm Service manual for this car and honestly, getting access to the mirror’s wires looks about as much fun as installing cabin filters...

I plan to proceed on the following plan:

1) Talk with my Parts Manager buddy to see if he can help me out with a “free” slightly off warrantee fix (not holding my breath though)

2) Disassemble the door and "connect" the "new" mirror to see if it works and solves the problem

3) If it does, I’ll start poping off mirrors and pulling wires… and try and swap motors/sensors

4) Then, after I have totally fubar'ed a second mirror, ;) I'll

5) Take it to the dealer and pay $600 plus labour plus body work!!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Thanks again for your posts and suggestions! I'll post after resolution...

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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OynxSTS,

Based on your added information, I would agree that the likely root cause of your problem is a failed position sensor inside the mirror motor pack, and that replacement of it is the only solution. The wiring harness from the motor pack, which connects inside the door, is permanently connected to the motor pack (i.e., it is a "pigtail" harness), and it must be withdrawn from the mirror assembly with the motor pack. As you have no doubt noticed, you can access the fasteners that hold the motor pack in place, but there is no way to draw the entire harness out with it -- it cannot slide through the opening between the two "halves" (stationary and folding) of the mirror. Believe me on this, I definitely tried to find a way to remove the motor pack from the mirror that I salvaged from the scrapped vehicle. Apparently, the harness in strung between the two mirror halves before they are joined together at the supplier's factory. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any pactical way to separate the two halves once they are joined, at least, not without breaking something.

I suppose that you could cut the wires and lift out the "bad" motor pack, do the same with the donor part that you purchased on eBay, then match up the wires and splice them together, and finally, carefully solder/seal the wires. I think that this will be difficult because you will have to make the wire connections while working inside the bowl-shaped mirror housing. Actually, if you are really ambitious, you can separate the bowl-shaped part from the rest of the mirror assembly, which would give give you much more working space. However, be forewarned that getting this part on and off requires much dexterity and patience. I only removed it on the salvage unit that I disassembled, and just this was frustrating -- I did not bother trying to reinstall it! In any case, if you decide to do this type of repair, be absolutely certain that you solder each splice connection and insulate the splices with water-sealing heat shrink tubing. (This is not plain heat shrink tubing -- it has a sealant that melts and oozes out the ends of the tubing as the tubing shrinks. I can't say where I have ever seen it for sale to the general public, but presumably you could find it somewhere.)

Before you follow this path, you might as well try cajoling your dealer into replacing the mirror outright. I really don't know what reaction you will get, as the vehicle's warranty has expired, though just barely. Maybe you will get a "half price" offer. You could also just have the eBay mirror repainted to match your car. You might as well find out the costs for this before making a final decision. My only concerns about this, besides the cost, would be to ensure that paint and polishing debris are kept out of the motor pack, and that the surfaces that are exposed only when the mirror is folded are also painted. Maybe this latter concern doesn't bother you, so long as the paint matches when the mirror is in its "normal" position. (Actually, these same paint concerns would also apply to a brand-new replacement mirror, since it too must be painted to match your vehicle.)

One final thought: in case you did not already do so, connect the mirror that you purchased on eBay to your vehicle and verify that it operates properly, with no DTCs, etc., before you try to use it as a source of parts, or as a repainted replacement mirror assembly.

Good luck!

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The wiring harness from the motor pack, which connects inside the door, is permanently connected to the motor pack (i.e., it is a "pigtail" harness), and it must be withdrawn from the mirror assembly with the motor pack. As you have no doubt noticed, you can access the fasteners that hold the motor pack in place, but there is no way to draw the entire harness out with it -- it cannot slide through the opening between the two "halves" (stationary and folding) of the mirror. Believe me on this, I definitely tried to find a way to remove the motor pack from the mirror that I salvaged from the scrapped vehicle. Apparently, the harness in strung between the two mirror halves before they are joined together at the supplier's factory. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any pactical way to separate the two halves once they are joined, at least, not without breaking something.

Thanks Road, I have not dug that far into it... I expect the "new" mirror by end of next week..

Why can't you extract the wires? Are you saying that the "connectors" are too big to fit though the holes in the two parts of the housing?

I am really good a taking connectors apart and removing the “pins" from them.

I take it that this won’t help… IIRC it looked like the wires were “glued” to the housing with silicon… is this what you meant by they aren't removable?

And absolutely… I will plug in new ‘black’ mirror and check for codes!!! Before proceeding...

Thanks again!

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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As far as warranty, you have to remember that the dealer is one business, and the factory is another business. It's not like they are a team. In order to get it done under warranty, the dealership must commit an act of fraud. How good of a customer do you have to be in order for the dealership to commit fraud?

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As far as warranty, you have to remember that the dealer is one business, and the factory is another business.  It's not like they are a team.  In order to get it done under warranty, the dealership must commit an act of fraud.  How good of a customer do you have to be in order for the dealership to commit fraud?

It never hurts to ask. When my Fleetwood was 2000 miles out of warranty, the starter died. I figured that there was no way GM was going to cover it even though it was so close to the warranty expiriation time period so I bought a starter at a Delco rebuilder and installed it myself.

The next time I was at the dealer, I mentioned this to the service writer and he told me that I should have brought the car in and GM would have covered it. They then told me that if I had my receipt for the starter, they could cover the cost of the starter but not my labor. I showed them the receipt and the dealer cut me a check for $175.

In OnyxSTS's case, the dealer might offer him a deal on the mirror but make him pay for the paint and paint labor which would be fair in my opinion.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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  • 4 weeks later...

OK, first, as always, thanks to all. I'm having a great day! :D

Its been about 2 weeks since I received my “new” mirror from ebay… This morning I took my driver door apart and removed the driver mirror assembly (easiest door I have ever disassembled! Finally a project on this car that is easy)

I plugged in the “new motor” and no codes! Great! :):)

So I took the original mirror and removed the two connectors… One wire at a time… removed the glass… disconnected the motor/sensor gizmo and snaked the wire out of the “new” one and snaked the whole mess into the original “blue” one.

I’m be honest this all was a little fiddly and did take the better part of two hours… But this was easier then the cabin filter project… :lol:

To make a long story short… I snap back in the new glass and Viola! I have a memory mirror again! Victory Dance in the driveway! B)B)B)

You can take the motor/sensor thing apart… I’ll post some pictures this weekend…

At the end of each of the “pawn” shaped things that “drive” the sensors are two tiny fork shaped contact thingies… On my up and down “pawn” one of the forks had broken off…

To bad GM doesn’t sell these bits… for want of a 50cent plastic bit the system failed… The good news is I now have an extra one of these ready for use if a second mirror fails.

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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