Dan Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 I personally think that a company as big as GM will not go under, which is why I bought a little GM stock. They pay a very good dividend, and the price has fallen over 50% from a year ago, so it is a very cheap stock. If you read all the analysts opinions, they call Lutz's and Wagoner's plan to save GM, "Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." Their cars, specifically the new G6 are getting pretty bad reviews. See the LA times story here. I think that guy has some validity to his opinion. Like why is GM still using 4 speed autos when the rest of the world has moved on to 5 and 6 speeds? What's with the lethargic Chinese made pushrod engines? I could understand if the cars had displacement on demand or something like that, but it doesn't. I think GM needs to move into 21st century with their low-end brands. I love what they have done with Cadillac. Why haven't they done the same with Chevy and Pontiac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 GM and other "Detroit" car makers are facing declining unit sales which falls through to declining revenue and profit. And due to global competition in the auto industry, GM is unable to raise unit prices beyond some level. Mix that with high (very high) labor costs with large future obligations and you have a recipe for unrest among the mutual fund and pension fund managers. The stock price is down because there are more institutional sellers of the stock than there are buyers because there are more attractive places to park investment money. No company is "too big" to fail. Keep an eye on some other "biggies" out there in corporate America; Delta, AMR, Ford, to name a few. There is a limit to how long any company can bleed money. Can it be fixed? Sure. Will it hurt? You can bet on it. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 FY2005 1st Quarter = $ 1,000,000,000 net operating loss (yes, that's billion) FY2004 Heath Care Costs = $5,000,000,000 (yes, that's billions) They have a tough road to hold, there will definitely be some talks with the UAW..., among other issues. Maybe they can sell some GTOs if they can 'reface' the lines of a Lemans to look more like a sport coupe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 "I personally think that a company as big as GM will not go under" The bigger they are, the harder they fall. I used to think that about UAL. Now, after two pay cuts and benefit reductions I am about to see 39 years worth of pension go out the window. No one is immune. Delta is next. The UAW is in for a very rude awakening, AND IT'S GONNA HURT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 Naw, they'll ne OK. After they charge emps. for health ins., reduce pensions & stop paying for retirees health ins. the bottom line will look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 Naw, they'll ne OK. After they charge emps. for health ins., reduce pensions & stop paying for retirees health ins. the bottom line will look good. You don't think for one minute that the UAW is gonna put up with that, do you? The only way they will accept that is if it is jammed down there throat in chapter 11. Been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 While bad times are no doubt ahead, I think a turnaround is likely in the longer term. One killer, however, might be the appearance, in a few years, of insanely low priced Chinese imports. And then, there's India . . . . . Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 You don't think for one minute that the UAW is gonna put up with that, do you? The only way they will accept that is if it is jammed down there throat in chapter 11. Been there, done that. Yep,....most of them would rather be unemployed than give up some 'bennies'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 You don't think for one minute that the UAW is gonna put up with that, do you? The only way they will accept that is if it is jammed down there throat in chapter 11. Been there, done that. Yep,....most of them would rather be unemployed than give up some 'bennies'.... Howver, I think Bill K's comment may have been 'tongue-n-cheek'!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 You don't think for one minute that the UAW is gonna put up with that, do you? The only way they will accept that is if it is jammed down there throat in chapter 11. Been there, done that. Yep,....most of them would rather be unemployed than give up some 'bennies'.... Howver, I think Bill K's comment may have been 'tongue-n-cheek'!! Now that I reread Bill K's comment I tend to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoe Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 My Dad is a seatbelt/airbag guy and he is working with the Chinese and Koreans on some projects... and after visiting there recently he thinks they will have HUGE amounts of market share in 7 to 10 years. And he is a die-hard GM guy! I know I don't plan on buying a "new" car for at least 2 years... GM or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 While bad times are no doubt ahead, I think a turnaround is likely in the longer term. One killer, however, might be the appearance, in a few years, of insanely low priced Chinese imports. And then, there's India . . . . . Regards, Warren Yes, made in China with Detroit badges and DaimlerChrysler will likely be first kid on the block. Closely followed by Chinese company names. Labor rates in China are The following is taken from a piece in today's New york Times; "China's auto parts exports of everything from Delphi parking-brake components to Johnson Controls seat covers are already increasing to countries around the world. Sizable exports of fully assembled cars by Chinese-owned automakers like Hafei and Chery have already begun to developing nations in South America, Africa and the Middle East. DaimlerChrysler's negotiations now make it increasingly likely that significant numbers of cars will be shipped from plants in this country to the United States and Europe as soon as 2008. Robert A. Lutz, the vice chairman of General Motors, said here that he expected at least one of China's homegrown automakers to be successfully exporting around the world in the next five years." Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 Robert A. Lutz, the vice chairman of General Motors, said here that he expected at least one of China's homegrown automakers to be successfully exporting around the world in the next five years." I have a Chinese-made minibike a purchased on a whim, it is a Honda Mini-Trail 70 knock-off with a 90cc engine. The manufacturer is Jincheng, who produces more than a million motorcycles a year in China. When they first started producing thes bikes in the late '90(s) I read articles on the internet about the 'lack of quality', or better yet, crap there producing. Examples included storing their bare steel stampings out in the yard for weeks, then powdercoating right over the rust, undersized electrical wiring, and sub-grade components. I the stories read, it got so bad they finally brought in some "quality guru's", who revamped some of their manufacturing processes, and they restored their name. Because of this, I bought the import last December, and must say, the quality is sufficient for the price I paid ($ 1,100), but there are still some details in their design that are marginal. I guess what I am saying is, I would not make a major investment (such as a car), from a Chinese manufacturer that has acted in a unilateral decision making process of product design, testing, tooling, subcontracts, and manufacturing, because their bottom line is COST, not quality. However, it does not seem to be a stretch to consider the fact that someone with expertise over here or in Japan could go over there and teach them and implement quality principals/processes currently employed by the 'major' manufacturers, and given time, the become a formidable competitor. Nobody can 'exploit' like the Chinese, ....they learn quickly, albeit in an underhanded way.... As a country, they also have a total disregard for the Earth, everyone's environment, which is troublesome, as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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