Intakes!! f$^&*(& intakes..

[weearee138]

ok so i have a 2000 caddy deville 72k and im looking for a not stock intake. volant intakes make 1 for a 2001 caddy deville and im wondering if anyone knows if there is any diffrence between a 01 and a 00 in the aspect of its intake. also if anyone knows of any better brand then a volant intake maybe you could help me out. !! the goddam person who answered the phone at the volant distributor sounded like i woke her up from her bed( huhuhuhhhhhhhh uhhh.. oh . hi what can i do for you) and they never got back to me on if theyve every installed a volant on a 00.. the dealership never got back to me either. they had no idea what i was talking about. any suggestions!?

jon

[Scotty]

First, be more specific when you call it an INTAKE, I immediately thought you were talking about an INTAKE MANIFOLD, something I used to upgrade often when I was a kid.

Why do you want this 'INTAKE' and what do you hope to gain? Some of these cars have the CPU in the intake air stream and air is sucked over it to cool it. I DON'T know if thats the case with your year. I read their description and it says this "We were able to achieve superior air flow while pulling in cooler air for more power." Why do you suppose they didn't say, it adds 10, 15, or 20 HP more? Because it will add nothing but more noise, and you will perceive that you are getting more power. What do their dyno tests show? I can tell you that some here have played with intakes and have lost HP. Our local expert said that nothing in terms of HP has been 'left on the table'. The stock intake will supply adequate air flow to produce the rated HP. If you want more noise, and possibly an inferior filtration system such as a K&N filter or the REUSABLE CLEANABLE one offered by them, by all means go ahead. I personally would NOT want an INFERIOR filtration system that allowed grit and dirt to enter my intake system and score my cylinders.

I would imagine if they say 2001-02 it fits 2001-02 otherwise they would have included 2000, there a changes from year to year that would surprise you. The existing system is 100% adequate, that is my opinion. By the way, the DEALER won't really understand what you are talking about.

Call me old school but when an expert says nothing is left on the table I listen. Furthermore, realize that you are getting 275 or 300 horsepower from a 279 cubic inch engine.

[weearee138]

thanks scotty. ive been wanting to do something diffrent with the airbox. i think ill just drop a k&n filter in there.

[Scotty]

Do some searches here on K&N filters, I think you will be surprised what you find, Mike

[danbuc]

K&N's in a Northstar are worthless. You'll only end up with a loss in low end torque, as the hp is shifted further up into the RPM range. I expereinced this, when tested a K&N in my car, as well as an STP paper filter, and a Fram paper filter. Both papr filters showed better overall performance and power, while the K&N just made more noise. I returned it the next day and got my $45 dollars back, and kept the two paper filters. If you want to try it, make sure that the place you buy it from, will except a return, if it doesn't work out. Another problem that has been identified with filters such as K&N that use oil to help filter out dirt, is that the oil over time can collect on the MAF sensor, and give false readings. This results in poor driveability, and performance. Your best bet is to look through the forum, and see what people have done to the airbox itself. Many have smothed the inside surfaces, and kept the Paper filter, and seen good results.

[Ranger]

The K & N will aslo pass more dirt than the paper filter.

[JLAWS]

The K & N will aslo pass more dirt than the paper filter.

I don't think that is true but I put a cone filter at the end of the tube and lost ALOT of HP. No back pressure at all and I think it sucked in more hot air from the engine bay. The only thing it did was add a nice V8 roar. The Mrs thought something was wrong. I returned it days later

[JLAWS]

Also you are not dealing with a Honda Civic/Accord or Toyota Corolla etc. You own a high performance and pretty much max tuned luxury vehicle and you can't just go throwing on stuff like the cars above. There is not really many aftermarket products for a Northstar engine since it already pushing a good 275-300 hp.

[Scotty]

The K & N will aslo pass more dirt than the paper filter.

I don't think that is true but I put a cone filter at the end of the tube and lost ALOT of HP. No back pressure at all and I think it sucked in more hot air from the engine bay. The only thing it did was add a nice V8 roar. The Mrs thought something was wrong. I returned it days later

Before disputing statements made on this board with conjecture, please READ THIS about K&N filters (and others) and get some actual testing data.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

Here is the test's conclusion in case you don't like reading:

>>The "high performance" cotton gauze and foam filters do not filter as well as some have claimed. I actually received an e-mail from K&N stating their filters filter within 99% of the OEM filters. This may be true, and 1% may not sound like much. I contend that 1% over many miles, may be important.

I know it will be asked.... The K&N was properly cleaned and serviced using a K&N filter recharging kit which I personally own (owned quite a few K&Ns). The Amsoil filter was serviced with Amsoil filter oil. The others will be serviced with the appropriate oil as well. The paper air filter will be installed.... I did have a question regarding the deposit on the filter possibly being oil. It is dirt. I took a piece of my 2nd filter test stock and put a few drops of K&N filter oil on it. The oil stays bright red on the filter as well. One person even mentioned the dirt in their area isn't that black. Well this is Western WA state where everything grows lush green. I live 90 minutes from full fledged rain forest and the soil here is black like topsoil. I guess I could take a picture of my white powder coated wheels turned black from road dirt if I had to. If you have a HEPA filtration air purifier in your home and have ever changed the HEPA filter, you will notice that it too is black. The Napa paper filter tested showed the same black deposits. Paper filters have no oil on them, so the oil hypothesis is a dead issue.In the e-mail I received from K&N, I actually got contradictory information on this point. They claimed that the deposit on my test filter was oil (it isn't), and then they said oil does not leave the filter and damage mass air sensors. Honestly, you can't have it both ways. Either oil leaves the filter or it doesn't. Oil will damage a mass air sensor if it gets on the sensor wiring. This is highly documented by TSBs easily available online. <<

>>At the same time, I know that the stock OEM type filters perform very well in filtration and don't inhibit flow nearly as much as some think<<

[JasonA]

Scotty -- that's a great link, I use it all the time.

I think that if you read through the bobistheoilguy.com user forums, you'll find that it's not really clear if the gauze filters really pass more dirt or not. Some people run 'em and find more silicon in their Used Oil Analyses (UOAs). Some don't. I'd say that in order to positively conclude one way or another for YOUR particular vehicle, you'd have to do a couple of UOAs. But I'd say that even that isn't that conclusive because some folks on the user forums there have different results with similar vehicles.

The only thing conclusive in my book is that with so much uncertainly, I'll run nothing but paper filters in my vehicles. It ain't worth an extra 1.62 hp at redline to possibly be passing more dirt to the engine. But that's a personal decision that everyone has to make for themselves and their own vehicles.

[Scotty]

I think he was quite clear that paper filters filtered better and that is good enough for me, he certainly did more research than anyone I know. In addition, he did not cave in to pressure from K&N, and for that I have a lot of respect.

What I don't like however are unsupported statements, if there is as detailed a study showing that K&N filters filter as good as OEM, I want to see if before statements made on the board are disputed. Till then I agree with Ranger. As you said, the gain is not worth the potential risk

[rollingthunder1994]

Hey Guys,

Very interesting reading. My question,

Is the FRAM AIR HOG air filter based on the same concept as the K&N. I see this filter in the Local PeP Boys going for around $45.00. The box says it's life span is 250,000 miles and it is washable and reusable

[OynxSTS]

I think he was quite clear that paper filters filtered better and that is good enough for me, he certainly did more research than anyone I know.   In addition, he did not cave in to pressure from K&N, and for that I have a lot of respect.

What I don't like however are unsupported statements, if there is as detailed a study showing that K&N filters filter as good as OEM, I want to see if before statements made on the board are disputed.  Till then I agree with Ranger.  As you said, the gain is not worth the potential risk

Cool site, interesting read, and interesting approach.

Except the oil guy's test are as unscientific as any other of the statements here... The way he did his test introduced way too many independent variables to mean anything... He states he did his tests over two Fall/Winter months, let’s just say that the weather, especially on the Wet Coast at this time of year is “variable”, massive wind, to massive rain to even ice which yields road salt, hey we even get a nice day once or twice in fall too… Ok only once…

Further did he drive within the same RPM limit for each filter?… Not all “paved roads” are created equal either, city stop and go miles vs highway miles. does "same roads" = same route.. Etc etc etc.. And this is just the first half…

Basing your results on the color of the second “catch filter” is “interesting” but I’m not sure again how relevant… In his test if, for example, you had a magical filter that stopped every particle except pure silica which is white (and as abrasive as my mother-in-law), he would have declared that one the winner…

For me it was amazing that all of the filters let a fair about of crud through…

PS I agree with most of the posts here you do not get a performance gain on a stock North* from a K&N… Escalade maybe…

[Ranger]

http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/air.filters.html

The line below the test results says it all.

[JasonA]

Those are interesting numbers. I'd like to find out a little more about that test...how they conduct the testing, how they ascertain the results, etc. They key is still the wording of the airflow characteristic..."airflow capacity". Sure, a K&N might be CAPABLE of flowing more than a same-sized paper filter. I don't think any of us disagree with that. But CAN the engine actually ingest more air than the paper filter can provide? That's where the vacuum gauge test comes in that bbobynski has eluded to time and time again.

[OynxSTS]

http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/air.filters.html

The line below the test results says it all.

Thanks Ranger for helping prove my point,

In the oil guy's “scientific” test the AMSOIL filter comes in last; in the test conducted by “The Desert Research Institute - Reno, Nevada” (I wonder if their diplomas come with a comp buffet ) that you posted, the AMSOIL comes in first. Things that make you go Hmmm... I love that these testers either mention (in passing) that they have a Masters Degree and/or that they follow some SAE standard...

That must make them scientific!

PS I still stand behind K&N + N* = waste of $$$

[weearee138]

i am very new to these fourms. and to the cadillacs. i got my car 8 months ago. this is my first. im not to familiar with everything going on in there as it is very new. alot of high tech stuff. anyways. i think i will stick to the paper filters. i got my filter changed out or something by the guys at jiffy lube. it kinda pissed me off because whatever they put in there changed the sound which means its diffrent then the one i had. and i can also feel some sort of diffrence when i WOT. i will check it out, i havent really looked at my filter lately. and i will stay away from K&N. i do have some concern when it went in for some catalitic problem they said the spark plugs wernt the original and they were wierd ones that cadillac has never seen. do you think i should replace them with correct ones to avoid issues down the road?

..jon

[Cupillac]

i do have some concern when it went in for some catalitic problem they said the spark plugs wernt the original and they were wierd ones that cadillac has never seen. do you think i should replace them with correct ones to avoid issues down the road?

weearee138, I think I speak for everyone here on these forums.

Stick with the recommended OEM spark plugs, AC Delco. Not sure which exact plugs, but always stick with the proper parts unless your adding an aftermarket exhaust system.

[rollingthunder1994]

Hey All,

I tested the Fram Air Hog Air Filter. It's suppose to be like the K&N filter, I know someone who works for PEP Boys and he grabbed one out of the store room for me at no charge. I put it in the car last Tuesday. I took it out on Saturday, In my opinion it made the car perform worse than the paper one. I'm running performance mufflers from summit, model # sum 630122. The mufflers give the car a nice sound and it does perform better. The Air Hog seems to hod it back and causes the engine to run a little rough. Put the paper back in car runs smooth and takes off like a rocket. Glad i did not pay for it.

[JasonA]

Rollingthunder, thanks for the field notes! From what I can tell, that Fram Air Hog is exactly like the K&N: an oiled cotton-gauze filter. Maybe a different color, but that's about it as far as differences, right?

[tmpafford]

...the guys at jiffy lube. it kinda pissed me off because whatever they put in there changed the sound which means its diffrent then the one i had. and i can also feel some sort of diffrence when i WOT. i will check it out, i havent really looked at my filter lately.

Check to make sure they closed the top correctly on the air filter housing. This has happened to me several times after an oil change and air filter check. The throttle sound is louder and a little more rough when the top is not closed all the way. My 97 box is a little difficult to get closed.

[Scotty]

Good point, currently mine has a broken clip on it, and I need to replace my air filter housing

[STYES]

The common belief here is that regardless of filter element, dirt still enters the engine, sometimes moreso with the expensive filters than the stock type units. Where does this dirt go you ask? Some of it becomes byproduct, some of it ends up in your air box, and some of it winds up in your oil. But many folks here continue to condone changing the oil at intervals greater than 3/3000! By-products of combustion also end up in the oil as well. If you want more performance from your engine, get more air into it! An engine is a glorified air pump. More air means more fuel, which means more power. But more air means more dirt. Change the oil, something most folks overlook. Find a way to get more cold air into the filter box. Changing elements is not the answer. Case in point. If you turbo your car, add a blower, or nitrous, what have you essentially done? You have given the cylinders a denser charge of air.

[Scotty]

The common belief here is that regardless of filter element, dirt still enters the engine, sometimes moreso with the expensive filters than the stock type units. Where does this dirt go you ask? Some of it becomes byproduct, some of it ends up in your air box, and some of it winds up in your oil. But many folks here continue to condone changing the oil at intervals greater than 3/3000! By-products of combustion also end up in the oil as well. If you want more performance from your engine, get more air into it! An engine is a glorified air pump. More air means more fuel, which means more power. But more air means more dirt. Change the oil, something most folks overlook. Find a way to get more cold air into the filter box. Changing elements is not the answer. Case in point. If you turbo your car, add a blower, or nitrous, what have you essentially done? You have given the cylinders a denser charge of air.

Alright already, so change your oil at 3/3000 This is based on the premise that dirt still enters your engine, it would like to think that is not necessarily true if you use high quality filters..

[JasonA]

He'll never agree with extending drain intervals past the Jiffy Lube 3/3000 slogan, even when faced with hard data from GM powertrain engineers. That's cool...he can do what he likes. As long as some people start to realize the benefit of longer drain intervals, progress is made.