Matt Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Yes that is right friends, more trouble. Now my oil pan gasket is leeking. I jacked it up, took off passenger side tire, took out shielding from in wheel well and exposed the balancer and front of oil pan. I thought I would have to at least lower car a bit to get oil level in pan again but it started to leek right away as soon as I started engine. There you can see the drip form and run down edge and drop off. I checked tightness of pan bolts and that did not cure it. I spoke with the place that put the new gasket on and they do not believe it. I bet the gasket shifted, I really do not know why it's leeking only that it is. MY QUESTION is-- can I get the pan out just by removing the bolts. Is there room to slip it out. It's a 93 Seville with a 95 4.9L engine. I hope I do not have to figure out how to jack up engine. Please help!! Am loosing hair fast !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Was the gasket replaced before the engine was installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hi, Yes the gasket was replace by them wile it was on the floor. I may have to drop the pan and do it all over. I hope the pan will come out, I do not know if it will. I'm stuck... I'm getting nothing but excuses as to when it can be done and I'm not going to wait days again. I need that car..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Matt, how experienced is this mechanic? You have a lot of things that have cropped up distributor, water pump, idle off, oil leak. Other than that how does it run? Like Britt said, I would not drive it a lot until the distributor is fixed before you do other damage. I am feeling bad here, but I think its bacause you mechanic isnt as good as he needed to be, and you didnt get to help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Mike, I thank you for feeling bad about MY sitituation, BUT that is all you should feel bad about. You did me a wonderfull job in finding that engine and at a great price too. Once the engine gets above idle, in other words, as soon as you move out it is smooth and full of pep and power. I still have not cleaned out the throttle body, it is super dirty. That may fix up the idle, I'm not sure. But it is very dirty all over I will tell ya that. It starts up great, no smoke and best of all NO Steam vapor out the exhaust. These guys were supposed to be good. I mostly do as much of my own work as I can handle. Things have been very good for me repair wise the last few years. I had a Thunder Chicken that was no problem then a Lincoln ware I only went through a few air bag supension replacements and that was easy. My Seville has been the most work and now I have gone to these friends for something major and it is not working out. My family have used them for so long it's not funny. Things that were done for them were not really my business so I never looked into what was done, NOW I wonder about all of the help others got from these guys. I'm still adjusting things under my hood. There has been missing hardware and miss alighned hoses and tubeing and all sorts of crap. A bracket was put on in the wrong place that holds a steel power stearing pump line and the serpentine belt was rubbing on the line. This is crap!!! But now my concern is if I can remove the oil pan and get it out so I can work ojn it. Will it come out, is there room??. I hope someone knows. I got to stop to eat dinner. Be back later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Mike, I thank you for feeling bad about MY sitituation, BUT that is all you should feel bad about. You did me a wonderfull job in finding that engine and at a great price too. Once the engine gets above idle, in other words, as soon as you move out it is smooth and full of pep and power. I still have not cleaned out the throttle body, it is super dirty. That may fix up the idle, I'm not sure. But it is very dirty all over I will tell ya that. It starts up great, no smoke and best of all NO Steam vapor out the exhaust. These guys were supposed to be good. I mostly do as much of my own work as I can handle. Things have been very good for me repair wise the last few years. I had a Thunder Chicken that was no problem then a Lincoln ware I only went through a few air bag supension replacements and that was easy. My Seville has been the most work and now I have gone to these friends for something major and it is not working out. My family have used them for so long it's not funny. Things that were done for them were not really my business so I never looked into what was done, NOW I wonder about all of the help others got from these guys. I'm still adjusting things under my hood. There has been missing hardware and miss alighned hoses and tubeing and all sorts of crap. A bracket was put on in the wrong place that holds a steel power stearing pump line and the serpentine belt was rubbing on the line. This is crap!!! But now my concern is if I can remove the oil pan and get it out so I can work ojn it. Will it come out, is there room??. I hope someone knows. I got to stop to eat dinner. Be back later. I will say this, on my 91, the pan gasket was replaced without removing the engine, Mike Good Luck with this, these guys don't sound like detail people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Do you know if on your 91 they were able to take the pan all the way out to replace the gasket?? OR did they just drop it enough to work on it? Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Do you know if on your 91 they were able to take the pan all the way out to replace the gasket?? OR did they just drop it enough to work on it? Matt When I was thinking of doing my number one main bearing, Guru told me that the pan would come down, Mike Someone else recently did a pan gasket and it leaked afterward, its very recent if you do a search.. Here is the link http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5646 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Thanks, I read the link. I see a bunch of RTV on my pan in the cornor too. I may have to do my pan Mike, I sure hope I can get it all the way out so I can do a good job on it. I guess I was pretty silly thinking I would get the car back and be good to go. This really draws vacume. In my shop I pay attention to every little detail, I have to. The results of a repair done bad are a work crue sitting around unable to work and being payed mega bucks and the contractor screaming and yelling at my service manager that the machine was not fixed right. The end result would be me in hot water. We shal see what Tuesday brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Matt, Yes, the 4.9 oil pan will come out. (According to the manual.) 1. disconnect the negative battery cable. 2. jack and support the vehicle. 3. drain the oil. 4. remove the two flywheel covers. 5. remove the exhaust cross-over pipe. 6. remove the oil pan bolts. 7. remove oil pan. It has a note: Improtant! Apply a 1/4" bead of RTV at the rear main bearing cap and the front cover to block joints. The torque for the oil pan bolts is listed as 14 lbs. ft. or 18 Nm. Since everything was just off, the exhaust should not be a problem. This should be an easy fix. Mike, while you are under there, look everything over. Look for wires in contact with the exhaust or mis-routed hoses, etc. Things like the power steering line rubbing on the belt. Nothing like getting your car back from the shop and having to re-do the whole thing! Good luck with the oil pan job. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Matt, Be glad in this instance that it isn't a N*. The first instruction on N* oil pan removal is, and I quote, "Remove engine and place on stand." Nuff said! Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 OK Guys, thanks for the info. It helps to build confidence for this task I have to get done... I'm out a here. Wish me luck.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 This is 1 1/2 days later now and no leeks. It was not a fun job. First, my days of layinjg on my back and working under a cars ended a long time ago. Now I remember why!! I had trouble getting pan off, the oil pump was in the way by aprox. 3/8". I could not figure what to do. I tryed to force the pan but then thought if I bend it I will be worse off. I then loosened the bolts but did not remove them on pump. I was able to tip pump enough to get pan out. I then cleaned all mateing surfaces up very good with gas. I used yellow gorrilla snots to secure new gasket to pan and let it set up very good. Then I used this plyable sealent one of the mechanics here at work had to blob up the cornors of the pan ware needed. I forget the name of the stuff, he said he used this stuff before for this application. It is grey in colour. Then I just put it all back together and tourked it all down. Following the tourk specks was scary, it seemed not enough but it would be worse to over tighten it down I guess. My hands are beet up pretty good but it was worth it. Now let me find my post on the leeky water pump job. ==== I can't find my post about the leeking water pump, if any one knows ware it is please help bring it forward. I'm working and cant keep looking now. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Matt, After reading your last post, I hope that you remembered to retighten your oil pump! Have you had any luck with the distributor? Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Matt, After reading your last post, I hope that you remembered to retighten your oil pump! navion, Boy you sure know how to get a guy thinking! Matt, You did tighten the oil pump first, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Britt, I was thinking the same thing, Matt is already losing his hair over this car... Matt sounds like a detail guy unlike his mechanic BUT, I do agree with you on the distributor, get it the HELL out Matt! Glad you got that leak cleared up Matt, did you find anything wrong with what your 'mechanic' did to cause it to leak? You planned this engine swap so well to have that pan leak occur draws a vacuum as you say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 O MY God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Na , just playing with you guys. LOL. That would have been terrible. Holy cow. I tryed to see the problem as to why it was leeking. I do not think he blobed up the cornors good enough and there were sighns that the gasket squeezed out of place. I found what I think was blue RTV sealent all along the pan. That stuf is slippery as hell and it could have squished the gasket out. Before I put the pan up the gorrilla snots had the gasket solid in place. I also did the water pump guys, but I cant find my leed post about that leek. Ware the heck is it??? I also just cleaned out the EGR tubes and the throttle body today. It is nice!!!! I am in the process of getting another distributor from Scott, I spoke to him today Mike. He is giving me one, I will pay for shipping. It should be around 7 or 8 bucks. The distributor is not that bad but you can see it move a bit. That is not good at all with any movement. I have to find out why the idle is not perfect. The EGR valve is solid at idle.It is not jumping at all from what I can feel underneeth. NOW ware is my water pump leek post.???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Na , just playing with you guys. LOL. That would have been terrible. Holy cow. I tryed to see the problem as to why it was leeking. I do not think he blobed up the cornors good enough and there were sighns that the gasket squeezed out of place. I found what I think was blue RTV sealent all along the pan. That stuf is slippery as hell and it could have squished the gasket out. Before I put the pan up the gorrilla snots had the gasket solid in place. I also did the water pump guys, but I cant find my leed post about that leek. Ware the heck is it??? I also just cleaned out the EGR tubes and the throttle body today. It is nice!!!! I am in the process of getting another distributor from Scott, I spoke to him today Mike. He is giving me one, I will pay for shipping. It should be around 7 or 8 bucks. The distributor is not that bad but you can see it move a bit. That is not good at all with any movement. I have to find out why the idle is not perfect. The EGR valve is solid at idle.It is not jumping at all from what I can feel underneeth. NOW ware is my water pump leek post.???? I'm glad Scott is taking care of you, I will thank him, he's a good guy! Don't worry about the rough idle UNTIL you replace the distributor, if it is not rock solid, it could be contributing to your problem. It may be throwing off the rotors contact with the cap. Is the whole distributor moving or is the cap moving?.. I really think you should NOT run the engine until you replace the alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hey, yes they are pretty good down there. He even started my warranty from the day I got the car back with new engine in it. Cool!! With the distributor it is the cap that has movement. So it is the whole top half because the cap is secured to the base. But it's really not that much movement, it's just enough that if you look at it you say," gee, Look at that". It should be rock solid. I am wondering to if it has anything to do with the idle not being solid. I will be back, I got a customer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 OH!!!! I thought it was the DISTRIBUTOR that was moving, not the cap. If it is the cap that has movement, HELL yes that is responsible for your idle problem, take it off and look at the rotor and cap contacts, Ill bet they are chewed up, its possible that your rotor is not making good contact on one side.. Have you had the cap off, it could be just that its not seated correctly and that it got disturbed during shipping, if that is the case, I would buy a new cap and rotor as the contacts are surely deflubiated... Maybe the rotor is not seated... You may not need a new distributor, is there play in the rotor when you grab it? Does it seem like there is a bad bearing in the top or bottom of the distributor? What is causing the cap to wobble? The rotor has to be running out of round is there play? Forget about anything else until this wobble is fixed, this is DEFINATLY contributing to your problems, I have found the 4.9 cap to be quirky to seat correctly, could that be it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Yes I did replace the cap and rotor. The thing is the stuf on there was not chewed up. I wanted new stuff on there any way so I put all brass stuff on. This is a thinker.. I do not want the gear at the bottom of the distributor to get chewed up so that is another reason to replace it. But still there is the RPM hunting. Hmmm I am still trying to figure out what to check next. Be back in a few hours. Have to run out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Matt, I hope that I wasn't responsible for more hair loss with the "Did you tighten the oil pump?" question. It was the fact that you mentioned loosening it, but did not say anything about tightening it up again. (That is how an inspector is trained to think.) Like in our shop, a fellow had just finished rebuilding an engine and was ready to hang it on an airplane. Some one took a brand new rod bearing shell half & left it where this fellow could find it. We almost had to sit on him to keep him from tearing the engine back down! The guy who pulled that trick wasn't to popular for a while. By the time you have been around as long as I have, your expenditures on hair grooming products will be pretty slim. Take care. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hey Guys. It's nice to be home, it was a long day. I think that was a dirty joke to play on a guy that rebuilds airplane engines. It's a good thing he saw the bearing shell before the plane left the shop or he may have had a stroke thinking the plane may be ready for take off someware. I was sure not to forget to retighten it, I hate doing small jobs twice. I will tell ya, I keep my hair pretty short, just a tad longer then a military buzz cut , it's harder to notice how thin it's getting that way. Now, Scotty / Mike- this distributor is sure strange. The cap is on right, and yes it is funny to seat propper. The movement in it is hard to describe. It's like the whole top is moving, cap and what the cap mounts on. It is snuged down good too. Also the rotor is on good. I guess it coud be a bearing at the bottom causing it to run out of round. In fact Mike, that may be the best way to describe what it seems like. I think by the end of next week I should have the new one. I'm goin to post this now. I will be back in a bit... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 Matt, You are saying that the WHOLE distributer is moving? If you were to tape a pencil to it (point up) and held a piece of paper or cardboard to the point, would it mark a small circle on the paper? If so, then I think that the distributer shaft IS bent. And I believe that you will find that the housing is broken below where it enters the block. Not good! You need to get it replaced ASAP! Here is the distributor removal/installation procedure: Disconnect: 1. Ignition battery feed wire from cap. Ignition coil connectors from cap. 2. Four bolts from cap & move cap out of the way. IMPORTANT! Location of cap "doghouse" must be in the same area on reinstallation for sufficient clearance for adjustment. 3. Six terminal PCM harness from distributor. 4. Distributor clamp nut and hold down clamp. 5. Note position of rotor (mark housing with a sharpie). Pull distributor up until rotor just stops turning clockwise and again note position of rotor (mark housing again with a sharpie.) Remove distributor. Important! Remeber the post about the thrust washer. It may stick to the distributor as it is removed. Verify that the thrust washer is in place in the bottom of the distributor bore before installing replacement distributor. Make sure that there isn't an extra one on the new distributor. Transfer marks to identical places on new distributor. Install or connect: (Make sure the replacement distributor has a good seal installed.) 1. Distributor with rotor positioned over the second mark as noted in removal step Rotor should turn and line up with first mark. (If you haven't turned the engine and the distributor won't go all the way down, it is probably because the oil pump drive isn't lined up with the new distributor gear. If this happens, while keeping fingers clear of the rotor & where you can let go if the whole thing spins, place a slight down pressure on the distributor housing and have some one bump the starter until the oil pump drive lines up & the distributor drops in the rest of the way. 2. Hold down clamp and nut tighten till slightly snug. 3. Six terminal PCM harness. 4. Distributor cap and four bolts. 5. Ignition switch battery feed wire. Then you will need to set the timing. 1. Ignition off, transmission in park. 2. Connect an inductive timing light to #1 spark plug lead. 3. (The book dosen't mention starting the engine, but I guess that we can assume that we can to warm it up.) With engine at normal operating temperature, and the A/C off, take off the aircleaner housing. (I also have to assume that you would stop the engine at this point before removing the aircleaner upper. The book doesn't say. ) 4. Jumper pins A&B at the ALDL connector (WHILE NOT IN DIAGNOSTIC DISPLAY) "SET TIMING MODE" message will be displayed on the Climate Control Driver Information Center (CCDIC). 5. Start engine and aim timing light at the timing mark. Set the timing at 10 degrees BTDC at any speed less than 800 RPM. Tighten distributor hold down. Recheck timing. Adjust if necessecary. 6. Turn the engine OFF & remove the timing light. REMOVE the jumper from the ALDL connector. Install air cleaner upper. You should be Good To GO! Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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