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The fuel pump went out and I had it replaced along with the screen and fuel filter.  Then when the car got warm it spits,  sputters, hesitates and sometimes dies.  If it dies it does start again right away, sometimes it's a hard start.   If the windows are up i smelled fuel when this happens. I replaced the injectors  2 days ago and thought i had the problem licked but it started the same thing again today. I did not have this issue before replacing the pump. I did not have the windows up today (gorgeous day in So Cal) so I don't know if there was a gas smell like last time. 

The mechanic working on the car is stumped.  Any idea what to do next? 

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Have you checked the fuel pressure regulator?  I don't know this engine, what is this a 4.5L?

Locate the fuel pressure regulator, with the engine idling/running, pull the vacuum hose off the regulator, if it spits fuel, its diaphragm is damaged, replace it

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It is the 4.5. The pressure regulator was checked and I was told it's working fine. The only problem there is that when it idles it idles fine.  When I step on the throttle it will act up.  I'll have to see if it will miss when im in park and rev it. 

Thanks for the reply! 

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What is the fuel pressure at idle and at 2,000 rpm?  This is important.  Keep in mind that just because the pump is new that there is a possibility that it is defective.  What make of pump did they install do you know?

A fuel smell is usually an indication that the regulator is bad, but you did say that this happened after the fuel pump went in correct? 

Check the fuel filter to make sure they snapped the quick disconnects solidly.  No leaks around the fuel filter?  Get under the car and inspect for leaks in front of the fuel tank in the center (left to right center). 

Can you check for diagnostic codes? Are there any check engine messages?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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I bought an Autobest pump from Rockauto.com.  Will it make a difference if it's not under load at the 2k rpm? The guy who installed pulled the tank a second time to make sure al the connections were good. He's going to get a fuel pressure gauge with a long hose so he can check it while I'm driving. It wouldn't surprise me if the pump was bad. The strangest thing happen to my vehichles. As for codes it's not throwing any..

But it gets me to and from work with a minimum of fuss until I can get this figured out.

Thanks for the help.

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It won't make a difference if its under load.  You need the fuel pressure at those two points.  

Based on this it looks like you bought an economy pump.  Given that they are discussing the pump diameter, strainers, flanges and that the tank has to be dropped to replace it, I would have gone with an OEM AC DELCO or Delphi unit and not risked quality or fit issues.

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Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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2 hours ago, herownbagger said:

Unfortunately with the covid thing I'm tight on money.  If I have to replace it I will do that.

I hear you, but there are places to skimp and places not to skimp, dropping the tank is a pain a job you don't want to do twice.  Please let us know what the pressures are, look over the regulator again also.

This is your regulator, start engine, pull vacuum hose off, hold piece of brown paper bag in front of nipple, rev engine, if it spits any fuel, its bad.

Also, check to see if you have a fuel pump relay, I am pretty sure you have one, if it has burned contacts or is corroded you can get pump motor intermittents, high resistance, etc.  It might have been the problem from the beginning.  

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Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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So he doesn't have a fuel pressure gage but he is going to get one. 

But he checked the fuses and the relay and it's looks good.  He pulled the vacuum line off the regulator and did the paper bag thing and no fuel spitting .

He looked the  pumps over before he put the new one in and they were the same fittings. 

Anything else you can think of?

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Report back your fuel pressure

Tell me your history, why did you replace your fuel pump?, you said it died?, explain.  

If you have no fuel pressure gauge how did you know it died?

Fill us in on the history.  You might be experiencing the same problem you experienced before the pump was changed.

How did he test the relay?, did he test it with a load on it?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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So I've only had this car since Feb. A friend gave it to me after my old car gave up the ghost.  It only had 56000 miles on it and it's in almost perfect condition. So with that amount of miles it hasn't been driven much and now that it's my daily driver it's not liking this :)

the guy working on it is a mechanic at Honda but he's a younger kid, in his 30s so he's not too up on the older stuff. I have talked to my 2 brothers, my old mechanic from Las Vegas and the guy I got the car from. They didn't have any ideas. They're all older guys.

We did replace the fuel pump. It died on the way home. He made sure it was the pump by spraying starter fluid in it and it started. So I also replaced the strainer and the filter. After replacing it it started this spitting and sputtering and Jonah wasnt sure what it was. He dropped the tank again to check the connections and all was good. Still did it. So i took it to a shop. They said it was an injector stuck open. They said the fuel pressure was fine. Well, at $1500 to fix i brought it home,, ordered the injectors and Jonah put those in. It was just injectors, no connectors.It ran fine for about 25 miles then it started again.

He just looked at the relay. It was a bit dusty so he cleaned it off. He didn't take a meter to it

I want to mention again that I smell gas when it does start spitting and sputtering. I live in San Diego so half the time I have the windows down. I don't smell the gas when they are down. I don't know if this helps at all.

One thing i should tell you is that i have the weirdest things happen to my vehicles. So if you have something out of left field let me hear it. FYI I had a pick up that when the fuel pump p went out in it it would idle but do this spit and sputter under load and on my motorcycle when the rear brake light switch failed it failed in the closed position even tho they usually fail open.

In researching this issue i did see where the fuel lines were a recall and they were replaced with metal ones.

Again thanks for all the help.

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I am very busy and will read the above and reply in detail.

But, looking at a relay means very little.  The fuel pump constantly draws power, it clicks on every time the key is turned on. A defective pump can draw excessive current damaging a relay.   There are contacts in there that can pit and burn over time from increased resistance.   Replace it with a known good relay.  Even swap in the same relay from a non critical system as a test.  BE SURE TO WATCH THE RELAY'S ORIENTATION, ONE SIDE IS POWER, THE OTHER LOAD.  Watch for corrosion on contacts and sockets in a car that old.  

We need fuel pressures to move forward.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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@herownbagger

What is the status, did you hook up a fuel pressure guage and check the relay?

One other thing comes to mind, consider that the exhaust is restricted, the CAT can self destruct and clog the outlet.  Do you hear any rattling when the engine idles?

I had a clogged CAT on a 91

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/7/2020 at 7:40 AM, BodybyFisher said:

@herownbagger

What is the status, did you hook up a fuel pressure guage and check the relay?

One other thing comes to mind, consider that the exhaust is restricted, the CAT can self destruct and clog the outlet.  Do you hear any rattling when the engine idles?

I had a clogged CAT on a 91

 

On 8/7/2020 at 7:40 AM, BodybyFisher said:

@herownbagger

What is the status, did you hook up a fuel pressure guage and check the relay?

One other thing comes to mind, consider that the exhaust is restricted, the CAT can self destruct and clog the outlet.  Do you hear any rattling when the engine idles?

I had a clogged CAT on a 91

So we've been looking at things on the car, never did do a fuel pressure test because we found that there is a leak. The vapor tube from the gas tank that runs to the emissions canister up at the front of the car is pulling fuel up to the canister. So we pulled the tank again to see If there was a kink somewhere but nothing. We changed out the fuel filter because weirder things have happened to me when it comes to my vehicles. But it is still doing the same thing. 

Any ideas on this!

Karen

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Can't do anything without fuel pressure, you installed the cheapest fuel pump, verify fuel pressure to eliminate it from a potential cause.  I don't know how a leaking vapor line could stop you from doing a basic diagnostic fuel pressure test, your complaint is missing and stalling, something low fuel pressure would cause.

Did you stop fuel from being pulled into canister?  Does this line run to the top of the fuel pump?

You removed the tank without checking fuel pressure?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I have a 92 Deville 4.9 also in Southern California but the desert where it gets over 117 over a month of the year.. anyways I am having the same or similar problem; it will drive like a dream for old 92 but then out of no where it will be cutting out/ no power wants to stall when I push gas more than a little when taking off. I’ve noticed the past 3 times this happened the car was idling a lot with AC on super hot days. I havnt disconnected the battery over 300miles now, I had a lazy EGR E48 code and E52  in the first 120~ miles then lost both codes but 7.0. I check coolant temp in the AC diagnostics and convert to F* and and I’m not running hot/ havnt seen it get over 200F. The coolant is all mixed colored orangish greenish but not milky. I Have fresh oil, I always hate to think about a blown head gasket. I’ve heard these engines develop pores in the cooling jackets if you don’t use GM cooling system tabs. 

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12 hours ago, blue92 said:

I have a 92 Deville 4.9 also in Southern California but the desert where it gets over 117 over a month of the year.. anyways I am having the same or similar problem; it will drive like a dream for old 92 but then out of no where it will be cutting out/ no power wants to stall when I push gas more than a little when taking off. I’ve noticed the past 3 times this happened the car was idling a lot with AC on super hot days. I havnt disconnected the battery over 300miles now, I had a lazy EGR E48 code and E52  in the first 120~ miles then lost both codes but 7.0. I check coolant temp in the AC diagnostics and convert to F* and and I’m not running hot/ havnt seen it get over 200F. The coolant is all mixed colored orangish greenish but not milky. I Have fresh oil, I always hate to think about a blown head gasket. I’ve heard these engines develop pores in the cooling jackets if you don’t use GM cooling system tabs. 

Check for a clogged CAT, they have been known to clog up, it happened to me on a 91 4.9.  Bang the CAT with a rubber mallet and see if you get a rattling noise.

Pull the distributor cap and have a look at the rotor and cap for cracks, carbon tracking and burn throughs.  

What do you mean by you lost both codes but 7.0?

Its not porous in the cooling jackets that the supplement is used for, it is to make sure the cylinder sleeve o-ring doesn't leak allowing coolant into the crankcase.  

Why do you need to convert?, there is a way to make farenheit the default

Check fuel pressure with a gauge attached to the fuel rail and report your results.  If you can check the fuel pressure when the problem occurs that would be ideal.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I have another problem where my alarm will go off randomly from a bad trunk pull down motor I rigged a few years ago, I would always disconnect the battery so It reset the codes everytime. . Recently I've been keeping battery connected and havnt reset in over 250miles, no more codes when I check it just shows 7.0

I changed the cat with a new one 2 years ago also put a flow master muffler. It used to smell like bad rotten eggs with old cat. About a year ago I was driving the caddy and it stalled going through a dip. I thought for sure it was the fuel pump, I ended up fixing that issue with replacing the ignition control module inside the distributor. When it stalls out now, usually only when super hot and stop n go traffic, it will idle/let me rev it up in park with no cutout, but when I take off from stop it cuts power completely stuttering if I push gas any more than say 5%. I replaced fuel filter few years ago it's only driven under 3k miles with that. Its original alternator but it's working, high 13Vs. I want to think fuel pump but alot of people on these caddy forums have already replaced with no luck. Its original for sure, I can hear the broken plastic peices rattling around inside tank when I'm on hwy, (strainer basket recall?) And sometimes when turning around corners on low fuel it stalls out. But this new stalling when hot happened when I had full tank/ half tank, didnt matter. 

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Is this an aftermarket alarm?

I need to look into what 7.0 means, I have never seen that before.  Are you sure that when the system does a segment check all LEDS are lit?   A segment check is when all LEDS light up when you first request the DTC codes.  

It is interesting that it quit going over a dip.  Because it quit so quickly I am apt to think it is electrical in nature.  I have experienced something similar years ago.  If I were you I would do a few tests.  Do a TAP TEST on the ECM while the engine is idling. Holding the ECM tap on it firmly with your knuckle.   If it hesitates or stumbles at all, first detach the ECM connector spray both sides with electrical contact cleaner and and reattach the connector. Sometimes just R&Ring the connector will reestablish the connection.  Then redo the tap test, did that correct the stumble?, if not replace the ECM if it stumbles.  

If the tap test is good, check the fuse boxes for corrosion, pull each fuse and relay and check for green/white corrosion.  Focus especially on Ignition, fuel pump, injector, power, ecm items.  Tap on the fuel pump relay while it idles any stumble replace it.

With it idling grab the underhood harnesses and move them up and down watch for stumble.

Check the electrical connections at the distributor for a positive connection, no corrosion, tight connectors, jiggle them while it idles.  

Let us know what you find, Ill research the 7.0 message

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

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Thanks for your time and input. It's the stock alarm (4 train horns what it sounds like) my trunk pull down motor stopped working years ago/ I got it to work but the trunk light would stay on the dash, I believe I snipped a green wire in trunk to turn off the dash light. I realized this is my alarm problem, the trunk light should still be on but I "deleted it". If i leave car locked, randomly, the alarm will go off and within a minute it unlocks all doors and pops open the trunk. I thought it was because the heat out here but I realized it has something to do with that trunk light wire I snipped to turn off dash light.   

I have done that Tap Test on the EGR solenoid and maf sensor, I will try on ECM next and report back. 

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On 8/26/2020 at 2:19 PM, blue92 said:

Thanks for your time and input. It's the stock alarm (4 train horns what it sounds like) my trunk pull down motor stopped working years ago/ I got it to work but the trunk light would stay on the dash, I believe I snipped a green wire in trunk to turn off the dash light. I realized this is my alarm problem, the trunk light should still be on but I "deleted it". If i leave car locked, randomly, the alarm will go off and within a minute it unlocks all doors and pops open the trunk. I thought it was because the heat out here but I realized it has something to do with that trunk light wire I snipped to turn off dash light.   

I have done that Tap Test on the EGR solenoid and maf sensor, I will try on ECM next and report back. 

@blue92

You probably can get your trunk pull down motor from a scrap yard and that's what I would advise you do and rewire it the way it was originally. There is Nationwide database of scrap yards at http://www.Car-parts.com

Try going there and search your local area for your year and also for other models that may have the same trunk pulldown.

What was the result of the ECM tap test?

What is your fuel pressure?

I have never heard of an EGR solenoid tap test

E048, Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system Problem

Read these threads on the E048, your EGR system is dirty and you need to clean it out, there are EGR ports when you look down in the throttle body, rod them out with a hanger or use round wire brushes. You might even pull your EGR valve and clean it up with wire brushes. Do not submerge it in cleaning fluid but you can soak it up to the pindle. Replace the EGR gasket when you pull the valve..

https://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/topic/11436-faltering-acceleration/?tab=comments#comment-234429

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6526&hl=round+wire+brushes

 

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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Son the 90 Caddy we found the problem.  There is a check valve in the sending unit assembly that keep the vent line from sucking in fuel from the return line. It went bad when we changed the pump. Right now I have the line blocked off as is is hot at heck here and I don't want to stress my guy in the heat. Next month I'll order the part and have him put it in.

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