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Stalled ABS Pump 1997


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@rockfangd

I was doing some reading.  They speak of a relay that energizes the motor momentarily.  Could the contacts on that relay be burned / charred thereby increasing the draw/resistance so much that the system faults?  Have you looked at the relay?  

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Relay is internal to the EBTCM. I have a motor wired to it now. Spins great. No codes. Waiting to hear back from shop on rebuilding one of my bad motors

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Consider that the motor you are using draws less and puts overall draw into an acceptable range even with a bad relay.     Just playing devils advocate here.

 

I dont think the motor you have wired is an ABS motor correct?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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You are correct on all aspects.

When I put 2 of the 3 pumps I have in place like the one currently wired they start fast and slow quickly. 

I fully understand that there is lack of resistance of the pump itself (in the valve). How much more resistance is unknown.

Once I have a known good motor to mount I will be happy. 

When I get the old motors to spin ok, they will last for a few days without tripping the lights, then it seems they hit that (bad spot) and bam they don't spin, or pull alot of resistance and trip the lights

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I can't help to think that this is resistance in the power side and not the ground side.  

Gonna watch your progress.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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  • 3 weeks later...

A hopeful update. 

I have been driving the car with the dummy motor wired to EBTCM for the last few weeks. System was happy.

I picked up the motor I sent to have checked out. I was not satisfied. All I got from paying to have it looked at was learning how to take it apart myself. So I installed the motor. And not surprisingly the lights came back. Now here is where it gets interesting.

I pulled the motor back out and disassembled it myself. I found it was filthy inside. The solid wire that is soldered to the plate in the motor was loose (bad solder joint....Ding Ding). I cleaned the brushes, lubricated the bearings, Resoldered the wire connections. I then cycled the motor at 30 second cycles. It seats the brushes. It spun good and consistent when I got done. All of the things I expected the place I sent the motor to find and do...

I reinstalled the motor and so far have had no lights. I even braked hard enough to engage the ABS and it performed fine. 

I am confident in my findings, and results. Typically on a cold morning start the lights would surely be on. So far all good.

Now that I know how to disassemble the stupid motors I will service them myself and have a spare. I will post a few pics of how they are assembled when I refurbish the spare.

I am still confident the valve and EBTCM were not at fault. Voltages and grounds are good. Was just lazy motors. Remember these cars are getting old. Almost 25 years old. Southern or Northern they are still older. So it is a hit or miss when buying used.

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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  • 7 months later...

Just to update this. 

If I decided to retire this car, this would be the largest factor. 

I put the car away for a month while I drove my Seville. When I pulled Deville out the gremlin returned. Sometimes you start the car and lights are out, sometimes they are on, sometimes after clearing codes a few times they will go out. Sometimes they will not go out.

Pump sounds perfectly fine. I am going to replace the maxifuse as I do not like the look of it, but swapped it with another and did not change anything. 

I then decided to integrate a relay into the pump circuit. Input is a clean 12v. trigger is output from EBTCM, ground is clean ground, output goes to pump. This ensures that the pump is getting a proper clean 12v when triggered. I already know it has clean ground.

Still same problem. Sounds fine, system is not happy. I am going to put the dummy motor back on and if the system is happy drive it til I retire it. After buying 3 ABS units and all 3 were no good, new is not an option. 

If it were a useful feature I would not mind it but it is useless and has never helped me. And the second gear start default is ridiculous. Nothing like stepping on the gas and rolling forward, or backward if on a hill. 

This issue just keeps coming back to bite me. 

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Well I hope the lights are gone forever. I hooked the dummy motor back up. System was satisfied. I then ran a small wire off the motor positive wire to the relay I installed yesterday. Still satisfied.

So now when the ABS is initiated the dummy motor satisfies the system and the motor on the valve functions from the relay. I engaged it multiple times on my way home tonight and it worked fine and no lights. Very very rare I cobble something, but if it works and I know I did the work, I am ok with that. If I ever figure out what the resistance value is that satisfies the system I will get a resistor to replace the dummy motor.

It is important to note here that on these the pump motor does not cycle until the engine is running and proper voltage is present. I timed it to about 3 seconds after the engine starts. Pump motor runs for approximately 1.5 seconds.

Was a nice ride home tonight. Car rides great as long as the lights are off

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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