Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Major Problem. Car over heated on way to work this AM. Made it to shop and got it on a lift. There is coolent pooring out rear of engine, up behind flywheel. I removed this little cover that exposed the flywheel and can only see that it is running down block from that area. The engine started to kick and buck and temp was up around 223, I never saw that before. I opend the hood and saw coolent running out. I rushed it to work. My ship is sinking !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Check out all the hoses/clamps. How's you serpentine belt, tensioner? Is the water pump ok? 225 is not that much , you could not hurt the engine. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 If memory serves me..(you never know.. ) aren't there two small high pressure hoses that are routed in that region? They're manufactured to take extreme environmental conditions, and therefore last awhile but considering the cars age... '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Bob D, It's 4.9. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 The hoses are not leeking and the belt and tensioner are ok. I cant see a leek from anyware but coming down from behind the flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Bob D, It's 4.9. And that's posted where? '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Im a bit lost here. Is that a question to me. Yes, it's a 4.9L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Just got off the phone with Brogen Cady here in NJ. They say it was a problem that GM new about. It comes from the old Green Anti-freeze being very acidy and an area in the water jacket ware the coolent did not flow to good through. The coolent would sit there and as it got old it would turn to acid and eat its way through the block from the inside out. They say it is common around 100K miles and up. They have many of these jobs all the time now. Its very expensive. They are now useing a red anti-freeze. They are talking in the area of 4500.00 bucks to fix things. They cut out the bad area and sleeve it somehow. But its major work and as they take apart the engine and find old and worn things the bill goes up and up. My boat has sunk. Im floating down the river now with a life preserver on. O well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Im a bit lost here. Is that a question to me. Yes, it's a 4.9L No Matt, it was for Bob D, but he seems to know that . I just cannot recall any coolant passages by th efly wheel. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Im a bit lost here. Is that a question to me. Yes, it's a 4.9L No Matt. I assummed that for '93 it was a 4.6. I didn't have my clairvoyant hat on this morning, and since it wasn't specfically listed and is a '93, I had a 50/50 chance of being wrong. That'll learn me.. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Just got off the phone with Brogen Cady here in NJ. They say it was a problem that GM new about. It comes from the old Green Anti-freeze being very acidy and an area in the water jacket ware the coolent did not flow to good through. The coolent would sit there and as it got old it would turn to acid and eat its way through the block from the inside out. They say it is common around 100K miles and up. They have many of these jobs all the time now. Its very expensive. They are now useing a red anti-freeze. They are talking in the area of 4500.00 bucks to fix things. They cut out the bad area and sleeve it somehow. But its major work and as they take apart the engine and find old and worn things the bill goes up and up. My boat has sunk. Im floating down the river now with a life preserver on. O well..... Do not jump to conclusion... I do net remember anybody posting something like what the dealer described, despite many of us have 4.9 and of course most of them have more than 100.000 miles. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 BTW the flywheel is not close to water pump area. Are yousure you refer to flywheel? Do you have manual? If you do not I can email you a picture of cooling passages. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Just got off the phone with Brogen Cady here in NJ. They say it was a problem that GM new about. It comes from the old Green Anti-freeze being very acidy and an area in the water jacket ware the coolent did not flow to good through. The coolent would sit there and as it got old it would turn to acid and eat its way through the block from the inside out. They say it is common around 100K miles and up. They have many of these jobs all the time now. Its very expensive. They are now useing a red anti-freeze. They are talking in the area of 4500.00 bucks to fix things. They cut out the bad area and sleeve it somehow. But its major work and as they take apart the engine and find old and worn things the bill goes up and up. My boat has sunk. Im floating down the river now with a life preserver on. O well..... That doesn't sound right at all. First of all, the "red coolant" is much more acidic than the green. That's not a "fix" for a number of reasons. I had a '92 4.9 STS that went 120,000+ miles with NO cooling system troubles at all, running on the green coolant, with the occasional change and Bars. You know, there's still some hoses back there connecting to a plastic "T". That may be the weak link, and could sure cause what you've described. Stay away from that dealer. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 I just made another call to a service station near work. All the office people have gone to this fellow for over 15 years, he is expensive and good. He said that a lot of times a leek developes at the cornor of the intake manifold ware the gasket meets the head and coolent will poor down the back of the engine. He said the trans will have to come out to see what it is. O, man..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Stay away from that dealer. Yeah... I remember when my ISC motor failed Brogan offered to "fix" it for some $1.200 The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 I just made another call to a service station near work. All the office people have gone to this fellow for over 15 years, he is expensive and good. He said that a lot of times a leek developes at the cornor of the intake manifold ware the gasket meets the head and coolent will poor down the back of the engine. He said the trans will have to come out to see what it is. O, man..... Time out, buddy You need to take the pictorial of the coolant system that adallak offered to send you and thoroughly inspect it, before you let anybody go tearing into it.. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Please excuse me, I did not see some of the posts. I kind of up set right now. On the flywheel qustion; Yes I meant flywheel, it's the rear of the engine. The opposite side from the water pump. On water hoses: the only (T) I see with hoses is up on top of the engine. I see no leek up there. You bet I will stay away from the dealer. I cant afford them any way. Does the manifold gasket leek sound logical to any one??? It is good that no one has heard about the block rotting through I guess. Thanks for help guys..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 I'm going to try and make the ride to work now so I can borrow a pick up truck for a wile. This should be fun.I hope i make it. I'm packing coolent and water. Be back later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Well I made it to work, parked the best ride I ever had and rented a beet up-full of mud- cracked windshield GMC pick up. It was all they had left on the rental lot and had just been returned, so I had no choice if I wanted a discounted ride for a wile. All the info you guys gave me gives me hope at least. I do need " Adallak" if you would sir, please send me that Cooling Passage breakdown so I can look at it. Now to "bbobynski" I hear what you are saying. So much so that I just called my service manager to see if he will be at the shop Saturday, He will, so I will go down and check for that cooling pipe along the right side of the engine. By the right side do you mean inbetween the firewall and engine or the right side as I stand in front of the grill and look at the engine. PLEASE let there be a leeky pipe!!!!!!!!!! I checked the oil again when I got to work and there are no signs of coolent in the oil pan. Here is something else strange- a few days ago I noticed that the engine RPM was not crisp any more when booting the throttle. Ex, when punching the throttle to say 2500RPM and taking foot off fast, the RPM would hover there coming down to idle very very slow. It is not crisp ao responsive any more. It takes it time coming back to idle.. When driving to work a little wile ago, it was bucking and almost shutting off and when pressing on the gas it would hardly go. There was no power but if I pressed real hard it would try and take off. I barely made it to the shop. I work on small engines- Brigs and Stratton Twins, Hondas, Stihl Chain saws and others and lots of Hydraulic stuff. I have seen in the past things with intake leeks, weather carb or manifold act the same way with RPM s. Could these symptoms point to the intake manifold?? Maybe I will make a seperate post to Adallak and ask him to post here the cooling passage breakdown. Thanks Guys. I need food now. Im sick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Matt, You have a PM. Pay close attention to all the responses from bbobinsky - nobody knows the engine better than our resident expert does:D I remember a recent post with similar problem, and it was fixed easily. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 I hope I did the PM reply correct. I sent my E Mail add to bbobinsky. I never had a PM before. If you can remember that post about the guy with the same problem and how it was fixed easily I sure would be happy. I feel another sleepless night coming. Im looking for a pressure tester now. A few calls and I should have one. I wish my car was not locked in the building at work, but I had to drive it there to get another ride. I will go there first thing in AM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Matt, Hang in there, listen to Guru & take a deep breath. I have seen 4.1's 4.5's & 4.9's with over 180,000 miles on them and no rotted blocks. Take your time and do the pressure check. Just don't put cold water in a hot engine, or you will have a block or head issue. The weak point on these engines are the gaskets between the cylinder head and the intake manifold. The heads have a coolant port on each end, so they can be installed on either side of the engine. The intake manifold only utilizes the coolant ports on the front (waterpump) end. The other two ports are blocked off by the intake manifold. I think that your engine has developed a leak at one of these locations. Look at the junction of the intake manifold and the head at each corner of the engine. I have seen them leak at the front & run along the rocker cover and drain down on the opposite end from the leak. My 88 4.5 did the same thing. Only mine leaked into the oil! It wasn't a pretty sight. If yours chose to leak to the outside, then you are extremely lucky. The fix would be to pull the manifold and clean everything up, install new gaskets and seals and put her back together. Just remember to label ALL the hoses and make a diagram of how everything is hooked up BEFORE you take it apart. You can even take pictures to help. We had another fellow on the board who had some muffler shop work on his caddy. They left some hoses unhooked. He was getting an education in finding the proper places to hook them back up. Anyway, we hope that it is that intake manifold gasket. Good Luck & keep us posted. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 I have heard bad things about Brogan......be wary....... Listen to our resident expert bbobynski, you may just have a blown intake manifold gasket easy job to do, all you need is a scraper, vacuum, gasket set, socket set and torque wrench and patience. See photo. If it turns out to be the intake manifold gasket please let us know, I want to know this about Brogan, they are in my market area. I would not let them fix it. If you decide to do this, advise us, because I will post the procedure, if I am not mistaken, there is a requirement that a bead of RTV go at the corners, but I will look when you decide to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 OK, I have been printing , copying and saving all the info from you guys. I will let you know all my findings. I most definetly will not let Brogan touch my car. Site un seen they said starting price of 4500.00 . Then more as they tear engine apart and replace worn things. ( The whole engine is worn- are they kidding??) Now Saturday AM early I will go with prints in hand to my car and check the water pipes marked with the red arrows. The only thing I must say again is that when the car was up on the lift at work there were no drips or signs of water from the areas on the picture. There was water dripping off of this little cover held on with two bolts. When I took off this cover I saw the big gear( fly wheel) The water seemed to be coming from up in there!! Could it be coming from bad intake manifold seals?? I need to look at all of these posibilities before decideing ware to start. O my gosh, the rest of my hair is going to fall out!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Matt, Relax, looks like nothing serious happened to the engine. 4.9 is a workhorse, fix the leak and it will make another 100.000 miles. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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