Suspension Q

[thexboxpiii]

I was looking at the gm performance parts website and came accross this 12499507 C5 Corvette MagneRide Shock Upgrade kit, would you think someone where to buy this and add it to any CCVRTD cadillac could it possibly work?

GM Performance Parts Site

[OynxSTS]

That is cool and a question that I have often wondered...

i.e. if 8895399 (the part for the late 2002+ Seville Magna shocks) fit both physically and electrically into an F45 Seville... by my records the Magna shocks are only about $50 more a piece that the already pricy F45 "real time” jobs...

If they fit... I for one would be more than willing to pony up the extra $100 for the pair when my real time shocks become... shot...

Any GM engineering dudes know the answer to this one?

[thexboxpiii]

i know the shocks and struts from the vette dont work on a cadillac but if you take the struts and shocks off a 2003 seville and put them on a 98-02 seville without the magne ride suspension and take info on what the kit offers dont you think it would work.

[JasonA]

Unless I'm missing something obvious, wouldn't the Magnaride shocks have completely different software (in the PCM) to control them, vs. the active gas shocks? If you swapped the Magnaride shocks to a non-Magnaride car, I wouldn't think the computer would know what to do with it.

[OynxSTS]

Jadcock,

I agree, you would think that Maga ride shocks would require a different BCM/PCM, I wonder if the kit for the Corvette includes a new BCM/PCM to make them work with an "F45" car...

This yields another question could you "create" your own kit by buying an 2003 PCM and Magna shocks and swapping them in...

Obviously this would cost LOTS more than the "extra $100" for the magna shocks. I wonder if the magna's are that much better than the CCVRTD units.

Hmm...

[JohnnyG]

I test drove a 2003 STS with magna-ride. I did not like the ride as much as my '99, the '03 was too firm for me. Nor did I care for the ergonomics of the cruise control mounted on the steering wheel spokes. My '99 has the stalk on the lower right of the column to control the cruise...in my opinion a work of art, and much less subject to accidentally cancelling or changing. I will never figure out why they got rid of that stalk.

Anyway, your mods would not make good economic sense, since the money you spend on getting the thing to work correctly (if it is even possible) would exceed the cost of a 2003 STS, provided of course that you can find one.

In the end, the 2003 was a good car, with handling slightly improved by magna-ride at the expense of comfort. The car I drove suffered from "out of round tire syndrome" which may have tricked the system into thinking it was on a washboard road all of the time. I think that would automatically dial in the "wedge" causing the shocks to pump up and get stiff. This is my observation only and has never been confirmed by our local GM engineer. It is also my theory as to why the ride may have been firmer than my 1999.

[thexboxpiii]

I have driven a 2004 SLS with the magneride shocks at a Autoshow in motion event. I say its smooter with me hitting the corner at 40mph i noticed no motion in the car when i made the turn. But thats just me.

[RDWRIOR]

Nor did I care for the ergonomics of the cruise control mounted on the steering wheel spokes. My '99 has the stalk on the lower right of the column to control the cruise...in my opinion a work of art, and much less subject to accidentally cancelling or changing. I will never figure out why they got rid of that stalk.

JohnnyG,

I agree with you that the dedicated cruise control stalk switch of the '98 - '00 Seville was preferable to the later '01+ design, with the switches mounted on the lower steering wheel spokes. As to why the change was made, I would bet that it was a simple cost savings. By adopting the steering wheel used in the '00+ Deville (with wheel-mounted cruise control switches), GM was able to eliminate the unique steering wheel and cruise stalk used in the Seville. The '00+ Deville uses an ignition switch mounted on the steering column, whereas the '98+ Seville uses an ignition switch mounted on the instrument panel. So, although the Deville steering column is very similar to the column used in the Seville, it has no space for the cruise and wiper stalk switches used in the Seville -- this is reserved for the ignition switch.

Incidentally, the turn/wiper dual stalk switch assembly used in the Seville is the actual mounting point for the cruise stalk switch assembly, behind the column trim covers. One of these days, I plan to obtain a pre-'01 cruise stalk switch and mount in my '01 or '03 STS, wired to operate in parallel with the existing switches on the steering wheel. The cruise stalk should snap right into place in the empty cavity for it below the wiper stalk. Probably the hardest part of this job will be cutting a hole in the lower column trim panel for the cruise stalk; using a trim panel from a pre-'01 vehicle with the "factory hole" molded in place is not an option because the "gray" interior changed from '00 to '01, and the (molded-in) colors, while similar, don't quite match.

I actually don't have any ergonomic objections to the cruise switches mounted on the steering wheel, and I remember only one instance where I accidentally switched the cruise off. What bothers me is that there is no "cancel" feature with the wheel-mounted switch arrangement, whereas the cruise stalk switch had that feature. The "cancel" command is just the "set/coast" and "resume/accel" switch inputs activated simulataneously, but with my '01+ Sevilles (and the '00+ Deville), there is a single rocker switch for these commands, so there can be only one "switch state" active at one time. Thus, if I want to "drop out" of cruise, my only choice is to tap the brake pedal (and illuminate the brake lamps) or switch the cruise control on-off-on, which, of course, erases my cruise "set" speed from the memory.

Tip: For those of you with other GM vehicle models, the same built-in "cruise cancel" feature exists if you simultaneously activate the "set/coast" and "resume/accel" switches. (This works even in my father's '84 Corvette!) Strangely, this feature never appears in any owner's manual. I learned about many years ago, when I stumbled across it in the cruise control section of the service manual for the '95 Cavalier/Sunfire. Later, I met a GM engineer who had worked on the "corporate specification" for cruise control years before, and he explained that the "cancel" action was not really considered a feature at that time -- it was the committee's agreed-upon "safe default action" specification for a condition where both control switch inputs were activated simultaneously. Later, when someone had the idea for a dedicated "cruise cancel" feature, it just so happened that it was built-in to the existing cruise control system. However, the feeling was that if a particular vehicle model was not provided with a dedicated "cancel" switch function -- which was, and still is, the case for most GM vehicles -- then it would be best NOT to describe how to activate the cruise control system's built-in cancel feature using the "two switch" method described above.

As to the main subject of this thread, i.e., adapting MagneRide struts from a '02+ STS to an earlier vehicle, it is an intriguing idea, which I had never considered before. I will have to do a little research on this. . . Perhaps it is something I will want to do to my '01 STS.

(My '03 STS is my daily driver; the '01 STS was purchased brand-new as a "project car" for a host of neat (to me) electronic remote control features and some mild performance upgrades, but I have had so little time to work on it -- it waits patiently in storage, partially disassembled and rarely driven, not even 700 miles on the odometer! I really need to get myself in gear on this project during this upcoming spring/summer! )

[maydog]

My understanding is that the only thing that really changed in the magnaride system was the strut dampener. I would think that you could at least get the soft - firm transition without much modification. The real question is are the drive signals similar between the two types of struts.

My guess is that they are, if not you would need some sort of intercept / adapter between each strut and the PCM. Depending on the differences, something as simple as a resistor, diode, transformer would work. If the strut somehow required higher current levels (i doubt it) a follower circuit could be fasioned with a power transistor.

Things would get more difficult if the modulation schemes were wildly different. I believe the CVRSS system uses a 12V PWM (pulse width modulated) 2 KHZ square wave where 0% duty is soft and 100% duty cycle is firm. Does anybody know the signal fed to the magnaride struts (anybody have a service manual)? If this signal was wildly different between cars then a more sophisticated adapter would be required. I still could probably be fasioned for <$30 apiece if the parts were purchased in bulk.

I am willing to consult on this one, things like this interest me greatly.