Bob D Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 I don't know of any condition that would cause such a destructive condition at idle. I would agree -- do the internal engine parts even have enough inertia at idle to completely push through an engine BLOCK and fall out on the ground? NO WAY. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Maybe....componets can fail.....too bad its not a 2001. Customer Satisfaction - Engine Crankshaft Misbuild - Replace Engine #01012 - (Feb 23, 2001) Table 1: Canadian Table 2: IPC (Port Units to Repair Locally) 01012 -- Engine Crankshaft Misbuild -- Replace Engine Certain 2001 Cadillac DeVille, Seville, Eldorado Model Vehicles Equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8 - VIN Code Y or RPO L37 - VIN Code 9) Engine THIS CAMPAIGN BULLETIN ADDRESSES VEHICLES IN DEALER INVENTORY AND VEHICLES DELIVERED TO CUSTOMERS. VEHICLES THAT PASS THE INSPECTION PROCEDURE WILL BE RELEASED FROM THE STOP DELIVERY ISSUED JANUARY, 2001 TO U.S. DEALERS VIA DCS MESSAGES WIS20010001 THROUGH WIS20010005 AND VIA E-MAIL TO CANADIAN DEALERS. DEALER INVENTORY AND CUSTOMER VEHICLES THAT DO NOT PASS THE INSPECTION HAVE SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS. SEE THE SERVICE PROCEDURE FOR DETAILS. Condition General Motors has decided that certain 2001 Cadillac DeVille, Seville and Eldorado model vehicles, equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8 - VIN Code Y; RPO L37 - VIN Code 9) engine, may exhibit a condition in which the engine crankshaft micro finish on the #1 pin and #5 main bearing may cause wear damage to the crankshaft, which can cause an engine knock noise and possible catastrophic damage to the engine. Correction Depending on the customer-assigned VIN, dealers are to inspect the Engine Unit Number (EUN) for a certain suspect range, to ship certain vehicles back to GM, and, in certain cases, replace the engine in those vehicles within the suspect EUN range. Vehicles Involved Involved are certain 2001 Cadillac DeVille, Seville and Eldorado model vehicles, equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8 - VIN Code Y; RPO L37 - VIN Code 9) engine and built within these VIN breakpoints: Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjtjwdad Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Vehicles Involved Involved are certain 2001 Cadillac DeVille, Seville and Eldorado model vehicles, equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8 - VIN Code Y; RPO L37 - VIN Code 9) engine and built within these VIN breakpoints: Hmmmm, wonder if I have one of them. I've had a few quirks with my STS but the engine is solid ... or has been so far. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Maybe....componets can fail.....too bad its not a 2001. Condition General Motors has decided that certain 2001 Cadillac DeVille, Seville and Eldorado model vehicles, equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8 - VIN Code Y; RPO L37 - VIN Code 9) engine, may exhibit a condition in which the engine crankshaft micro finish on the #1 pin and #5 main bearing may cause wear damage to the crankshaft, which can cause an engine knock noise and possible catastrophic damage to the engine. I haven't done the math, but I really find it hard to believe that the amount if inertia built up by momentum of the mass of the reciprocating crankshaft would have the force to break through an aluminum engine block, given that conditions are no load at 600-700 rpm. Just doesn't add up. The "catastrophic failure" that they predict might occur given the conditions of the bearing discrepancies is probably a spun bearing resulting with noise causing engine r&r. (Idle condtions) Under load it's entirely different ballgame, but the notice doesn't specify the conditions, just vaguely the enitire realm of possibilities. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Its a very, very good engine. But its not like its aviation certified engine..... I think this is the VIN range: 2001 Cadillac DeVille Hamtramck 1U206512 1U212730 2001 Cadillac Seville Hamtramck 1U206606 1U212526 2001 Cadillac Incomplete Hamtramck 1U550539 1U550609 2001 Cadillac Eldorado Lansing Craft Centre 1B106739 1B106797 Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiljak Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Is it really that strange to think that a rod may have been subject to a manufacturer's defect? There's seems to be a very troubling pattern develpong on this forum that if someone has a problem that appears to possibly be attributed a GM fault, everyone is instantly on a witch hunt after that poster. Why is that? If the same thing happened to some of you, I guess you would just incur all the expenses and not even look into the possibility that GM may be at fault. The factory makes mistakes sometimes too, thats why we have recalls. You bet your *smurf* that if the same thing happened to me, I would be all over GM and I can be (and have been before) a customer service nightmare until I get my way. I'm an AMERICAN! my $.02. James 1999 STS 65k 1995 STS 127k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Is it really that strange to think that a rod may have been subject to a manufacturer's defect? There's seems to be a very troubling pattern develpong on this forum that if someone has a problem that appears to possibly be attributed a GM fault, everyone is instantly on a witch hunt after that poster. Why is that? If the same thing happened to some of you, I guess you would just incur all the expenses and not even look into the possibility that GM may be at fault. The factory makes mistakes sometimes too, thats why we have recalls. You bet your *smurf* that if the same thing happened to me, I would be all over GM and I can be (and have been before) a customer service nightmare until I get my way. I'm an AMERICAN! my $.02. I agree, the witch hunt is getting old. Let's go back to helping people with their problems not trying to question whether they can or can not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
556393 Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 WELCOME BACK B/B AND THANK YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiljak Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Point is well taken. However, all I was saying is that people shouldn't automatically assume that a person is lying. Maybe you guys know more about cars and can see these people coming. I agree that when people respond to a problem asking for more info, it should be given, if availble. I personally would already have pictures prior to posting if I had a cracked block. I guess what I'm not getting is why would someone make a problem up, just to get some sympathy from everyone on the board? Maybe they are from Lexus and are trying to give Caddy a bad name Oh well, I'm staying out of these type of topics from now on. James 1999 STS 65k 1995 STS 127k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 >I guess what I'm not getting is why would someone make a problem up, just to get some sympathy from everyone on the board? < . One word: Attention. Some types crave it, whether positive or negative. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Back to the connecting rod through the block (or pan)…. This continued to bug me so I took it to my lab today, broke out the slide rule and called in our staff scientist. Hey, I’ve got an MS in applied physics, but my buddy tops me with a PhD in the same subject so I deferred to him. We teamed up and tried to take the potential energy in an unloaded, idling V-8 (with the N* details), and convert it to enough kinetic energy with a rod coming apart to cause a catastrophic failure like the one that was suggested in this post.. Sorry , not going to happen. Creating a scenario that made it even remotely possible is a statistical probability so small it’s in many orders of magnitude IN THE NEGATIVE. Somebody’s floating a royal bull story here… '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Sorry , not going to happen. Creating a scenario that made it even remotely possible is a statistical probability so small it’s in many orders of magnitude IN THE NEGATIVE.and the probability of an event cannot be more than 1 and less than 0. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Sorry , not going to happen. Creating a scenario that made it even remotely possible is a statistical probability so small it’s in many orders of magnitude IN THE NEGATIVE.and the probability of an event cannot be more than 1 and less than 0. I was using that for effect.. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Sorry , not going to happen. Creating a scenario that made it even remotely possible is a statistical probability so small it’s in many orders of magnitude IN THE NEGATIVE.and the probability of an event cannot be more than 1 and less than 0. Negative orders of magnitude are like 10 ^ -6 which is 0.000001 which is between 0 and 1 I would bet rod through block at idle is in the order of 10 ^ -12 or in other words if GM were to make a million of these a year... This might happen every million years or so... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Sorry , not going to happen. Creating a scenario that made it even remotely possible is a statistical probability so small it’s in many orders of magnitude IN THE NEGATIVE.and the probability of an event cannot be more than 1 and less than 0. Negative orders of magnitude are like 10 ^ -6 which is 0.000001 which is between 0 and 1 I would bet rod through block at idle is in the order of 10 ^ -12 Close.. And yet so far.. Far from the reality of ever happening, that is.. (I guess about as close as a sudden fissure in an aluminium alloy block..) ..sorry, I had to do that.... '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiljak Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Could have been the flux capacitor James 1999 STS 65k 1995 STS 127k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTS_driver Posted March 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 ok heres whats going on, i had the wrecker tow the car to the dealership to find out what exactly is going on, i asked the service writer if this car has had work done to it there and he told me no, so i went to the house of the previous owners, i found there address written in owners manual and they lived 10 min. away. i spoke with them and they said the dealer installed new pistons in that car cause of oil consumpsion. they did this under warranty, I asked them who did this job and they said the dealer did which is same dealer but a diffrent location about 25 miles apart. I went to the dealer and told them what happend and there was also an open repair order on it to, so they called and i found out that they did this job at 48k, they told me they couldnt help me, so i called cadillac assitance and told them the whole story of what happend, im just waiting for them to call me back after they send an inspector out from GM to look at it. i been waiting patiently for a call back its been alnost a week since i called. oh yea by the way, the DEALER said a part of the connecting rod was thrown through the block, those are some of the pieses that were on the floor. im waiting for the job to be started so i can get under the car to take pics, right now the car is sitting at the dealers top lot. if this story sounds fishy its not cause i been with out a car for almost 2 weeks now, and i dont know whether or not cadillac assistance will help me put out with this. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfc Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 The junk yard will sell one in Dallas for $850.00. Ask them in your area, you may end up with a low mileage better then what you had. A decent shop should be able to install it for 6-800.00 maybe less since most of the parts would be on it. If your willing to wait the guy at the yard will let you know if anything comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATTICAKE Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Hang in there DTS, i was without a car for a month..its well worth your wait, i hope you get things going soon...i know exactly how you feel, but just take it easy, things will work out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTS_driver Posted March 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Any more comments?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 I think that you need to get the shop that tore the engine down to comment. If they found a rod bolt that was broken into, or, more likely just laying there in the pan, bent, then possibly the bolt was defective (broken) or not torqued (more likely). The ONLY thing that I can even guess at that could explain a self destruct at idle would be an untorqued rod bolt slowly backing out, finally disengaging from the treads in the rod, and comming into contact with an immoveable object (block) before it dropped completely clear. This would then side load the other bearing cap bolt causing it's failure and the cap releasing the rod from the crank pin. Once released, the rod would be struck by the crank on the next revoloution, with the attendant noise and associated destruction that you experienced. This is entirely speculation, but possible. It would help greatly if you could post pictures of the affected rod, rod cap, crank & block damage. The more that I think about it, If the rod it's self broke, then the bearing end would still be on the crank. If the cap came off, then that would be obvious because there woud be a crankpin with no rod attached. I would suspect that the shop that did the piston replacement will try to deny that it was their fault. I would take a wrench & see if you can back any of the remaining rod bolts off by hand. Let us know what you find. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Whoops, I was thinking of a rod bolt that threaded directly into the rod, through the cap. Apparently the N* uses rod bolts & nuts. But the premise would remain the same. I would look for a rod nut that exibited contact with other engine parts leading to failure. Sorry for the oversite. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I was thinking the exact same thing that it was possible that when the pistons were replaced a rod bolt was overlooked as hard as that is to believe. Whatever it is, I believe it is related to that piston replacement job going wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTS_driver Posted April 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I got pics now i just dont know how to post them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 If the pics are already on your computer all you need to do is hit the "browse" button next to the "File Attachments" prompt that is located below the post you are typing...The "browse" button will give you a prompt, find the area of your hard drive where your pictures are located, select them (one at a time) and hit open/ok...Hopefully they are under 64k..if there not you will need to shrink them...hopefully someone else can help you with that. A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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