TPS and ICM Question

[jndnaps]

13 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

In my defense it has been 11 years, and I have not had the urge to do that job since, so it would have been a 'new' job for me again haha..   I know I know, a man with an excuse, is an excuse of a man..  haha

Thank heavens for photos, my photobucket contains a treasure trove of photos...  I need to find a way to down load them, from photobucket and store them locally.

Good catch, I hope this was some help anyway  

I wouldn't use any adhesive just clean up the mating surfaces.   I suppose getting old is better than the alternative lol

post your findings and photos, beautiful car by the way, miss mine on long trips

No biggie..  appreciate the help.. I'm no mechanic and I usually screw things up when I try and fix things. I'm gonna try though. If I can't finish it I'll call the mobile mechanic out. Just didn't want to pay all that for this. Unfortunately the car isn't that beautiful anymore. Since the drunk driver hit the passenger side the poor car is falling apart. Drivers side looks great though.. It's going up for sale in a few months. These cars don't sell well around here. Figure I'd try and get around $800 or so for it. it's good for around town, but I wouldn't try any kind of long trips.  Oh well, Thanks for the info. ? ?  

[BodybyFisher]

Let me know if I can help.  

What will replace the Deville?

[rockfangd]

Same here. 

You have to find the right buyer. (Like me?)

You should be fine.

No adhesive needed. Just take your time with it. 

I tried to put a few pictures on a post and I guess I didnt have the patience.

Stupid photobucket. I deleted over 300 pictures. 

[jndnaps]

6 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

Let me know if I can help.  

What will replace the Deville?

OK, Thanks! Probably getting a PU Truck. Looking at a 2015 Silverado Z71 4X4 

[jndnaps]

51 minutes ago, rockfangd said:

Same here. 

You have to find the right buyer. (Like me?)

You should be fine.

No adhesive needed. Just take your time with it. 

I tried to put a few pictures on a post and I guess I didnt have the patience.

Stupid photobucket. I deleted over 300 pictures. 

Well I'll let you know when it goes up for sale. Doesn't look as good anymore and it has a lot of electrical bugs. 

[rockfangd]

Mu 96 Deville was my favorite car to date. Last of the real chrome and glass lamps, Quality dipped after 96. 'I love my 97s but the quality difference shows

[BodybyFisher]

replace that door and its almost perfect with a little body work, it is very clean.  I loved my 96

[jndnaps]

4 hours ago, rockfangd said:

Mu 96 Deville was my favorite car to date. Last of the real chrome and glass lamps, Quality dipped after 96. 'I love my 97s but the quality difference shows

Oh yeah, I loved this car. Had this for 13 years now. That diamond white paint with the Vogues really looks sharp. It just has so many things wrong with it and I'm not mechanically inclined. But hey, it's perfect for you. You know how to work on these.  ? ?   

3 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

replace that door and its almost perfect with a little body work, it is very clean.  I loved my 96

I love it, but it's just time to move on. Needs too much for me to deal with. I'm just trying to keep it going a couple more months. ? 

[BodybyFisher]

That happened to my 96, it needed too much at the end, head gasket, TCC slipping, brake lines.  It went to the scrap yard looking new

[jndnaps]

10 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

That happened to my 96, it needed too much at the end, head gasket, TCC slipping, brake lines.  It went to the scrap yard looking new

I could have used that grill. Mine is broken all at the top where it mounts to the hood.

[jndnaps]

So I did the job.. That was very easy, but it still has the same darn problem, but no code for it this time. Throttle body is spotless and I can't find any vacuum leaks. I discoed the batt and reconnected it so it can re learn and nothing.. SOSDD... Gasket put on the right way.. I have a P1634 Code. Would a bad  ICM make the idle go crazy? It starts at around 800 drops to 650 jumps to 1000+ and just goes nuts.. My next step is to change out the ICM..  If that doesn't work It's heading to the junk yard. I also checked and cleaned fuses.. 

[BodybyFisher]

22 minutes ago, jndnaps said:

So I did the job.. That was very easy, but it still has the same darn problem, but no code for it this time. Throttle body is spotless and I can't find any vacuum leaks. I discoed the batt and reconnected it so it can re learn and nothing.. SOSDD... Gasket put on the right way.. I have a P1634 Code. Would a bad  ICM make the idle go crazy? It starts at around 800 drops to 650 jumps to 1000+ and just goes nuts.. My next step is to change out the ICM..  If that doesn't work It's heading to the junk yard. I also checked and cleaned fuses.. 

I trust you have seen this?

It is a shame members don't come back to complete the circle and confirm what the problem was, I sent the member a PM to see if he solved the problem

 

[jndnaps]

26 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

I trust you have seen this?

It is a shame members don't come back to complete the circle and confirm what the problem was, I sent the member a PM to see if he solved the problem

 

Yeah, I saw another one where the ICM was bad. I can change that. I'd have to get a shop to change the switch. I'm not paying a shop for that because that would probably run a couple a hundred at least. I did notice that the ICM is all cracked under the coils. I'm really seeing the junk yard in the very near future for this car. ?  

[rockfangd]

I would check the pigtail to that TPS. 

Any broken wire to that TPS and it will act up.

Check your vacuum lines well. You may have a cracked or broken one causing the idle to be high. Just a thought

[jndnaps]

17 hours ago, rockfangd said:

I would check the pigtail to that TPS. 

Any broken wire to that TPS and it will act up.

Check your vacuum lines well. You may have a cracked or broken one causing the idle to be high. Just a thought

OK, don't see any broken wires. There was one vacuum hose that was all corroded up and I changed it. I changed the TPS and the ICM and still have the same problem. I sprayed the hoses down with starter fluid and didn't notice it rev higher. Still have the code.. When I drove to the junk yard the idle was high. When I drove home it was perfect and It didn't do anything to it yet. So, that's all I can do. Guess I'll have to put the darn thing in the shop. Not sure yet.. My just junk it. Wanna buy it?  

[BodybyFisher]

If you had a vacuum leak you would set a lean code P0171/P0174 or both, so that seems to be unlikely.

I got the impression that it was a ranging unstable idle, not necessarily a high idle.   When my TB used to get gunked up, and cause a high idle I would get a service XXX message on the DIC (I forget what XXX was).   The reason I ask, is because the thinking is different between an idle ranging up and down and a high idle.  Can you explain it better?   I also don't think you would get a P1634 if this were air/fuel related so I am less confident that a cracked vacuum hose, brake booster, anti-backfire valve or leaking intake manifold gaskets are causing this.  This seems is electrical.

I see you replaced the Ignition Control Module.  I am going to look over my 96 FSM and see if there is a way to diagnose this.   Do you have a volt/ohm meter? 

[jndnaps]

5 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

If you had a vacuum leak you would set a lean code P0171/P0174 or both, so that seems to be unlikely.

I got the impression that it was a ranging unstable idle, not necessarily a high idle.   When my TB used to get gunked up, and cause a high idle I would get a service XXX message on the DIC (I forget what XXX was).   The reason I ask, is because the thinking is different between an idle ranging up and down and a high idle.  Can you explain it better?   I also don't think you would get a P1634 if this were air/fuel related so I am less confident that a cracked vacuum hose, brake booster, anti-backfire valve or leaking intake manifold gaskets are causing this.  This seems is electrical.

I see you replaced the Ignition Control Module.  I am going to look over my 96 FSM and see if there is a way to diagnose this.   Do you have a volt/ohm meter? 

This car has a lot of electrical issues, but it doesn't bring up any other codes. I had a message that said "service electrical system" Also, the steering wheel controls don't work anymore. The radio changes stations all by it's self and the volume sometimes blasts itself. Also, when the A/C is on the temp will go from Max 60 to 90 and I gotta keep putting it back down to 60 and the fan will kinda do the opposite of what it's set. If I have it's on high it'll all of a sudden go to the low setting. I'm assuming that all has to do with the steering wheel controls. I do have a V/O meter, but don't really know how to use it so that's not gonna help me. lol.. 

[jndnaps]

Yeah, it's definitely not a vacuum issue, it's an electrical issue. I went to the bank yesterday and had to turn the car off at least 5 times because the idle was way too high. at the bank I sat at the drive up window with it off. When I left the car ran perfect the whole way home. There are times it runs fine, then all of a sudden goes crazy. I started the car in the driveway and didn't touch the gas and let it idle. It was like someone was in the car hitting the gas and letting it go. The idle would would jump high and then get a little lower and just go nuts. The codes are the P1634 and IP2511.. I assume the IP is B2511 "Steering Wheel Controls Conv Key Stuck" The steering wheel controls don't work at all. But, would that affect the idle? Don't really know what else to do other than take it to the shop. ?

[rockfangd]

Ok judging by where you are at I would check the relays and fuses for corrosion at the underhood electrical center.

Pull the black cover off the whole center and have a good look. 

Disconnect the battery and look those terminals over well too.

[jndnaps]

6 hours ago, rockfangd said:

Ok judging by where you are at I would check the relays and fuses for corrosion at the underhood electrical center.

Pull the black cover off the whole center and have a good look. 

Disconnect the battery and look those terminals over well too.

I checked the fuses and they looked fine. Battery terminals are clean. They had a little crud on them and I cleaned it off. I was gonna pull all the fuses and relays and clean them again. What can I use to clean them? Is there an electrical spray I can use? Can I spray the fuse box? What about the ECM? Where is that located? Under the air cleaner? What's good to clean the plugs there? Thanks for the info. ? ?

⚠️ EDIT: ⚠️ OK, I saw the electronic spray cleaner on Advanced Auto parts site. ⚠️ ? ? 

[BodybyFisher]

Ok, you checked fuses.   From what I can see, this is a voltage mismatch between IGN 0 (Terminal 18) and IGN 1 (Terminal 19).  

I would monitor voltages on those

I would hone in on S124, that splice is highlighted in the diagnostic tree in the FSM as a potential cause of 1634.   I would find that splice and inspect it for soundness and corrosion.  

The FSM provides the location of S124 in the electrical schematic section, if you don't have the FSM I will scan the location information for you and post it.

I just last year had a splice problem on a 95.  Moisture intrusion caused corrosion and high resistance in a ground circuit. 

Find that splice and unwind it. 

As a check, you could monitor the voltage on IGN 0 and IGN 1 for stability and the same voltage, if it differs more than 2 volts, 1634 sets. 

This could also be an flaky connection at the PCM, R&Ring the C1 Connector may reestablish the connection's integrity, give it a nice spray of contact cleaner.

Good luck, I hope this helps

[jndnaps]

9 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

Ok, you checked fuses.   From what I can see, this is a voltage mismatch between IGN 0 (Terminal 18) and IGN 1 (Terminal 19).  

I would monitor voltages on those

I would hone in on S124, that splice is highlighted in the diagnostic tree in the FSM as a potential cause of 1634.   I would find that splice and inspect it for soundness and corrosion.  

The FSM provides the location of S124 in the electrical schematic section, if you don't have the FSM I will scan the location information for you and post it.

I just last year had a splice problem on a 95.  Moisture intrusion caused corrosion and high resistance in a ground circuit. 

Find that splice and unwind it. 

As a check, you could monitor the voltage on IGN 0 and IGN 1 for stability and the same voltage, if it differs more than 2 volts, 1634 sets. 

This could also be an flaky connection at the PCM, R&Ring the C1 Connector may reestablish the connection's integrity, give it a nice spray of contact cleaner.

Good luck, I hope this helps

Thanks for the info. No, I don't have the FSM so I'd need the scan.. Now, I have no idea how to monitor the voltage. I have this meter.. Maybe you can tell me what settings to put it on and what I'm looking for voltage wise? I have no idea how to use this other than for checking if a car battery is good.  A neighbor gave this to me. I also have no idea how to read all this, but hopefully with some help my dumb butt will figure it out. Thanks again, the info is greatly appreciated. 

[BodybyFisher]

I'll pull my FSM and post the location of S124 in the morning.

I think it would be interesting to monitor IGN 1, when the problem is happening at terminal 19.  Fluctuations would confirm a problem at S124.  Of, course, it might be easier to do an exploratory on that splice, to see what you find.

I will find out what PCM connector terminal 19 is on, I think it is the C1 connector but I'll confirm.

With that meter you want to set it on DC volts (the upper left quadrant) on your meter, put the selector on the 20 volt scale.

I am hoping that you find a bad splice at S124.

I know it sounds like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, explore S124 vs monitoring the power at IGN 1, but given your uncomfortableness with this sort of testing I lean toward you simply examining the splice.  But let's see what I find in the FSM.

I'll post more in the morning while I have my coffee, nite

 

[BodybyFisher]

The difference between DC Volts and AC Volts on your meter is that DC has a straight line (--) under V and AC has a wavy line (~) because AC voltage oscillates.

[jndnaps]

46 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

I'll pull my FSM and post the location of S124 in the morning.

I think it would be interesting to monitor IGN 1, when the problem is happening at terminal 19.  Fluctuations would confirm a problem at S124.  Of, course, it might be easier to do an exploratory on that splice, to see what you find.

I will find out what PCM connector terminal 19 is on, I think it is the C1 connector but I'll confirm.

With that meter you want to set it on DC volts (the upper left quadrant) on your meter, put the selector on the 20 volt scale.

I am hoping that you find a bad splice at S124.

I know it sounds like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, explore S124 vs monitoring the power at IGN 1, but given your uncomfortableness with this sort of testing I lean toward you simply examining the splice.  But let's see what I find in the FSM.

I'll post more in the morning while I have my coffee, nite

 

Very cool! Thanks again.. There's something I keep forgetting to mention. I had some rats under the hood of the car. We had a rat problem because of a white trash neighbor who had chickens in their back yard and they didn't store the food properly and they also would throw the feed all out in the yard attracting them. So I did have a problem with rats living up under the hood. Thought I'd find a chewed up wire, but I looked all over and could never find one. It's possible I'm missing it, but I traced a lot of wires and hoses out and didn't see anything. The only thing I saw that got a little chewed is the rubber piece that goes between the fender and the hood weatherstripping up by the cowl. The first sign of one under the hood I'd put a trap out at night and catch them. They would hang out under the engine cover. The white trash moved and the new neighbors cleaned the place up and haven't seen any since. If they find a good food source they'll stick around and find a place to live. I don't drive the car a lot so it was a perfect place for them. This was what I found when I took the cover off. Yeah, it's nasty!