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We bought this 2000 DeVille two years ago and it is our first Caddy. Wow! What a nice car to drive around in. About 3 1/2 weeks ago it just quit while my wife was driving at 35 mph. When I checked fuses I found a 15A marked IGN SW blown. It kept blowing in about 3 seconds BUT ONLY when I turned the key on. So I bought an ignition switch from Advance Auto and installed and problem solved... I think. A week later after driving about 20 minutes it started running roughly and lacked power. I was a block from my destination so I drove ahead. Nine hours later, I leave and it is running fine until about 20 minutes later and I am almost home then the same thing. The "service engine" light flashes when this happens. A couple of short trips...nothing. Always seems it has to "warm up" first, then...runs rough, lacks power and the blinking SE light.

 I have learned how to get the codes from the DIC and got 16, 7 of them current. I was told that I could disregard B0429 since nobody rides in the back seat usually. Here are the other six: P0300; P0446; P0741; P1381; P1860 & C0655. I read some other information and am wondering if I have a coil going bad?

Thank you in advance.

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It just went from bad to worse. We had just gone for a short drive to fuel up and as we were returning, the SES started blinking and the engine started running rough, so I backed in the drive and wanted to check the codes again and as I was shifting to park and setting the parking brake it just quit...died, dash lights went out...checked that pesky #29 fuse marked IGN SW and it was blown. So I pulled the new ignition switch, went to Advance Auto and got a defective replacement and a fuse box relay (the one like most of the smaller ones are) because I could hear additional clicking in the fuse box behind me and thought for $10, a trouble shooting relay might be handy. No fix. The fuse holds for key FOB operation and manual door locking/unlocking but after you turn the key on, within 3 or 4 seconds, the fuse blows again. I randomly, but methodically, switched out a couple of relays but nothing made a difference.

At this stage, I am about to have it towed to a dealer but I was hoping some knowledge here might save me a dollar or two.

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What you describe sounds like an intermittent short at the ignition switch or the wiring going to the starter.  The Starter on the northstar is in the V in the V8.   A continuity check between the starter terminal and ground would suggest a short condition. 


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Thank you for your reply Bruce. Sorry for the delay time...vacation. Sadly, without the Caddy. I still have not been able to get to the starter to do a continuity test. I have, however, purchased stock in 15A fuses and am going to take the column back apart again. I read on another thread that there is a possibility of a wire sheathing being worn from tilting the steering wheel AND since the first ignition switch actually fixed it for 3 weeks, I may have inadvertently moved the problem wire. I did a little experimenting (since I have so many fuses now) and I can actually start the car and it runs for about a second and a half before the fuse blows (#29 - IGN SW) and I can turn the key on and then back off and remove it and about a second and a half later, the fuse blows. I also hear what sounds like a relay clicking behind me (I have the rear seat removed) and the pop of the fuse (I think). Would that wire short still cause the fuse to blow even with the circuit turned off? My Caddy is stranded on my driveway at a slight grade so I have to go buy some wheel chocks to be able to jack the front up to access the starter cover. I have read this is the only way to get to the starter. Thanks in advance.

Robert

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You really  need a schematic of this circuit consider a one year subscription to this service, you will get diagnostic, schematic and repair info

http://www.alldatadiy.com

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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You can get access to the same GM info the dealers use cheap. ACDelco site offers unlimited use for 3 days for $20.

https://www.acdelco.com/for-professionals/gm-service-information.html

Fuse #29 has a lot connected to it...Also known as 'IGN 1' fuse.

#29ign.jpg

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Good info @Logan thanks


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I am curious, are you trying to access the starter from the bottom?  That access panel on the bottom will only allow you access to the converter bolts

The starter is located under the intake manifold


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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BodybyFisher,

Yes, I was reading in the Haynes/Chilton I have but was looking at an earlier model year by accident. I now understand it is under the intake manifold on the drivers side. I still cannot get to it as I am unequiped at this time to remove the fuel injector wires and valve cover to even get at the intake manifold. I did pull the 30A starter fuse and tested from there and have no continuity between ground and the starter. Again, starting is not the issue, running is the issue. Actually "key on" is the issue because the #29 (rear fuse block) IGN SW 15A fuse is what blows 3 to 4 seconds after turning the key on. I also have the "starting and charging" wiring schematic in the book.

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Logan,

The fuse that blows is #29 in the rear fuse block marked IGN SW and I have a wiring schematic for the "starting and charging" circuit that goes through that fuse. There is also a fuse marked IGN 1 and one marked IGN 3 in the rear block. In the under hood fuse block there is also a fuse marked IGN 1. Perhaps the circuit schematic you posted is for one of those circuits. Again, starting is not an issue, running from the "key on" is the issue. Also, I lose all key FOB operation and the doors cannot be locked or unlocked from the power lock buttons. Could my short be in the power lock buttons (they work fine from the buttons and key FOB when I replace the fuse prior to turning the key on)? If so, why would it only manifest itself when turning the key on?

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1 hour ago, Muzkmn said:

BodybyFisher,

Yes, I was reading in the Haynes/Chilton I have but was looking at an earlier model year by accident. I now understand it is under the intake manifold on the drivers side. I still cannot get to it as I am unequiped at this time to remove the fuel injector wires and valve cover to even get at the intake manifold. I did pull the 30A starter fuse and tested from there and have no continuity between ground and the starter. Again, starting is not the issue, running is the issue. Actually "key on" is the issue because the #29 (rear fuse block) IGN SW 15A fuse is what blows 3 to 4 seconds after turning the key on. I also have the "starting and charging" wiring schematic in the book.

You do not need to remove the injector wires, the fuel rail with injectors lifts carefully out of the intake, just disconnect the main plug and set it aside.  Place the injector tips up and do not be tempted to clean the injectors at all.  You might do a little PM and replace injector o-rings on reassembly.  If I am not mistaken, the manual states to lube those o-rings with engine oil, but I have never been a fan of mixing oil and rubber.  It is possible that the oring compound is not affected by oil.  But whatever you use, be sure its o2 sensor safe

You will need a quick disconnect tool to detach the fuel supply and return lines.

Is the fuse that is.blowing in the diagram Logan posted above?


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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BodybyFisher,

No. The diagram Logan posted is not the circuit I have been blowing fuses with. I responded in this thread to Logan about that. I will try to figure out how to post a picture of my circuit when I get home.

I was looking for the starter in response to Bruce Nunnally suggesting that I could check for a short by testing for continuity between starter "hot" and ground. I verified a good chassis ground by testing for voltage from the under hood fuse box hot and got 12.38 or so. Then I pulled the starter fuse in the under hood box and tested for continuity from that feed to ground and it was completely open so...no short. I also noted that when the fuse blows 3 to 4 seconds after turning the key on, I lose power door locks and key FOB use.

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That schematic covers your problem.  

The RFA is on that circuit that is why you lose remote door opening.  

You hear clinking from the rear bay, then the fuse blows.  If you can determine which relay is clicking that may help.

As a test I would disconnect the Rear Integration Module RIM and see if that stops the fuse from blowing.   If the RIM is shorted somehow that might be causing this.. 

I would like to see a schematic of the RIM circuit

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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BodybyFisher,

I had high hopes on this RIM circuit being the short but I cannot find a fuse or a relay to disconnect it. Here is the circuit I have been working with; never mind, it is too big to upload. Can I harm anything by pulling relays one at a time and turning the key on to see which one might be the culprit?

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I dont think so.  Just make sure you pull and replace them with the key off.


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I dont think so.  Just make sure you pull and replace them with the key off.

Find the RIM and disconnect the connector, terminal C2 feeds it with power.

Screenshot_20180813-185252_Samsung Internet.jpg


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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BodybyFisher,

Finally something different happened. The rear integration module is behind the rear passenger seat on the right hand side. There are two connectors and I disconnected them both. I believe the larger, upper connector supplies the power to the module so if I was only supposed to disconnect that one connector, I didn't do that. Now when I turn the key on the fuse blows instantaneously. I reconnect the RIM and back to a three second delay in blowing the fuse. The smaller relays (about a dozen) seem to be diode relays (resistance displayed only one direction between pins 86 & 87) and I have two locations where they are missing (for over two years) labeled LK/CYL and ELC. I have not purchased relays for those but I was wondering if there is a specific orientation for them since they fit one way and then also rotated 180 degrees? The spades are all the same size.

Thanks

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Double post


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Your description above is a bit confusing to me, but I think I get the jist of it.

One connector is probably the network and the other connector power.  

I get that when you remove both connectors the fuse blows instantly?  Is that correct?

I am occupied right now with something let's think about this.  

Please detail your statement on the relays better, its confusing.  

If you pull the clicking relay does the fuse still  blow?

A diode in a relay protects the contacts from current feedback when the relay turns off I believe

My gut tells me that if you disconnected the RIM and the fuse still blows it's not the RIM.  

It's key, DIM or RFA or wiring.  Something tells me this is in the steering column.  Stick your nose in the steering column and smell for burning electric smell

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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