Willie Hank Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Scotty, you will not hear the "booming" affect from Cerwin Vegas unless you listen to music that operates within such low end frequencies. I suspect that door speakers from amybody, including Cerwin, do not have the extreme low range that you are referring to. But I am curious to hear what you have to say about them. Styes, When you brought up the issue of "booming effect" I referred to the past posts on this string and could not find where the question arose from. That being said, "booming effect" if I understand that to be "deep thumping" from a speaker you typically might hear from a low rider type vehicle next to you at a stop sign that shakes your car, is typically a function of power, frequency seperation and the size of a driver. It is not a matter of the speaker manufacturer as much as it is a matter of physics. That is, you must have a large driver that is capable of moving air equivalent to the sound it is reproducing, and that signal should be a seperated frequency that is narrow in bandwidth, to replicate it. That is, if you were trying to replicate the sound of a bass drum that is 30" in diameter that only produces sounds below 40 hertz, the best replication would be a 30" diameter speaker with that same input signal of 40 hertz and below, and the power to drive it. Everything is relative, but to get good low end bass response, the speaker should be large enough to move a large volume of air (in my opinion you need at least a 10" diameter subwoofer and with a low pass filter that can be adjusted below 150 hertz), and a crossover that keeps the speaker from being psycho, don't throw a wide range of frequencies that confuses it. Bottom line, you are not going to get any discernable "booming effect" from the size of drivers Scotty is considering, forgetting power, bandwidth and manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 The OEM speakers actually go pretty low and compared to the CV they are not in the same league. No doubt the bass on the CV will be tighter and not as muddy as the OEM's. Of course my 19 yo son doesn't think the OEM goes low enough but they are sufficiently low for me. I would prefer that my bass does not shake the car along side of me Booming if I am not mistaken comes from a poorly dampened bass cone either mechanically or electrically or both. I got the 5 1/4 speakers yesterday and they look well made, the cone has a metallic look to it. This will definately be an improvement over the blown fronts. The 6 x 9's come today. How many of you listen to live music and how often. Last Sat I saw Najee and this Sat I am seeing Tower of Power at IMAC in Huntington. I think its important for an audiophile to listen to live music. http://www.imactheater.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Last Sat I saw Najee and this Sat I am seeing Tower of Power at IMAC in Huntington. I think its important for an audiophile to listen to live music. http://www.imactheater.com I am sure Tower of Power will be great, listening to a band of their talent and breadth of instruments live is definitely a treat.... Not to knock the Cadillac Bose system, becasue I have never listened to it, I'm sure the aftermarket Cerwin Vega speakers will sound good, they have been around a long time. I was surprised to the how cheap their speakers are, I'm sure they are trying to compete with Sony, Pioneer, Infinity and others. Their older speaker systems I remember years ago were typically notably expensive, only because they competed in the "higher end" market with the likes of Altec Lansing, the "old" JBL and Klipsch, to name a few. One thing, even the special systems the car manufactures "team" with, are not necessarily top notch systems. I have a GM "Monsoon" system in my Camaro SS that is comprised of 3 sets of speakers and rated at 300 watts "peak power". It sounds alright, good bass, but I could easily improve on it without spending a whole lot of money. The Durango Limited I just bought my wife as the upgraded Infinity system rated at 400 watts, but it sounds less powerful than the Monsoon system. This whole notion of "peak power" is a little bit of "tomfoolery". If you really factor in the RMS rating, it about 1/2 of peak power, in general. That is, 400 watts "peak power" is about 200 watts "RMS power" at an acceptable level of distortion, say .1% THD or less. The 700 watt RMS system in my old Mustang could easily be considered 1400 watts peak power. Have fun at the concert!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Willie, I have the BASE audio system in my car with 'standard' speakers. Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maremrak Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Mike, your car looks great with the tint windows. Where did you do it, and for what price? I am planing to do mine in April. As for wife not liking it, just do your thing and enjoy it. She will get over it. She should be happy that you are spending your spare time fixing the car instead of spending it with some chicks in a local bar. Anyhow, more you want to understand women more difuclt it gets, up to the point that you are just ready to give up. 1960 Sedan De Ville (sold) 1970 Coupe De Ville (sold) 1987 Mazda RX-7 (sold) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Mike, your car looks great with the tint windows. Where did you do it, and for what price? I am planing to do mine in April. As for wife not liking it, just do your thing and enjoy it. She will get over it. She should be happy that you are spending your spare time fixing the car instead of spending it with some chicks in a local bar. Anyhow, more you want to understand women more difuclt it gets, up to the point that you are just ready to give up. Thanks, maremrak, I see you are in New York, I have a place near me where the owner is more of a fanatic than me, if you can believe that! And I like that he is believe me! Its Smithtown Auto Trim (AL), in St. James. They do detail and trim work for the local Cadillac dealer and they know my car really good. The tint was $200 and the top bead was $100. Where are you in New York? Mike PS, I hear what you are saying about women, maybe I need to start going to nude bars and she will back off my harmless hobby We have a bunch of New Yorkers now, EldoEsq (long island), Kger (syracuse) Rollingthunder1949 (elmont), maremrak and Scotty (Smithtown) and a few more (staten island and roosevelt island) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maremrak Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 I am in Roosevelt Island, but can go about anywhere especially if it is for Caddy. I would appreciate if you can give me more details about that place (you may send me a private message if you do not want to post it here). What was the warranty for the tint, especially for fading? Did you have to purchese tint separatelly, or it was included in the price? Thanks. 1960 Sedan De Ville (sold) 1970 Coupe De Ville (sold) 1987 Mazda RX-7 (sold) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STYES Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Willie, look at Scotty's response immediately following yours to mine. He understood what I was talking about. Now to extrapolate on your querys. I had mentioned to Scotty many responses ago about my experiences with Cerwin Vega. I explained to him that these were rock n roll type speakers because of their design and range. Bose speakers for example, are better suited for jazz music. I own both, I should know. I went on to explain that certain products are designed for specific applications, speakers included. A Miata will perform better in the slalom than a Deville, but a Deville is just a far better cruiser on the highway, per se. I pointed out that the Cerwins are a rock n roll type speaker because they will give him a different sound than the stock, or bose, whichever he has. I mentioned the booming effect because Cerwins really do deliver a good, deep bass, but not quite to the level of a subwoofer. Cerwin door speakers might not quite deliver such low bass, but compared to most, and considering the low, in a corner position of the door speakers, it is safe to assume that the Cerwins will give him more of a rock n roll sound. That is where the original analogy comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 I explained to him that these were rock n roll type speakers because of their design and range. Note to self: "Cerwin Vega speakers are for "rock-n-roll" type music because STYES said so." Got it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Its only Rock and Roll guys and I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I ended up buying these 6 x 9's the other ones were discontinued http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_287.html Frequency Response : 25 Hz - 22 kHz ; (+/- 3 dB): 50 Hz - 20 kHz Power Handling : 100 watts ; Maximum: 200 watts I believe the factory rear 6x9 speakers are rated at 10 Ohms. Most replacement speakers are 4 Ohms. I think your new rear speakers may cause a fade imbalance problem. I'll be interested in how they work. Please inform us after your install. Well you had me scared for about a week with that 10 ohm statement! Remind me to virtual smack you in the head for the sleep I lost over that 10 ohm statement! Check out the FRONT drivers they are 4 ohm.. See Photo I am hoping that you are wrong about the REAR being 10 ohm and hoping that they would NOT put 4 ohm in the front and 10 ohm in the rear which I doubt.... One more thing see the GREY gasket, it looks like it was a liquid of some type like a form a gasket anyone have any ideas as to what I can use. Does someone sell a liquid gasket in a tube that remains squishy when dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Rear of tweeter, note 4 ohm. You really can't see it but there is a 4.7 microfad 5 volt capacitor on the left circled, I am assuming that is the 'crossover' and full output frequency is coming to this driver before the cap, so I can use the crossover that came with my Cerwin Vega to give it only the highs. The 5 1/4 is getting full frequency, it sounds pretty good, but I need to work on its fit, its slightly small for the hole. Maybe I can center it better. I was surprised that the woofer was open to the elements inside the door. It appears to have gotten wet.. I don't want to put it into an enclosure however this speaker effectively uses the DOOR as a box.. What do you guys think about me using the old tweeter's frame as a holder for my new tweeter and just us my dremel to make the hole? Or should I fabricate a new frame angled up more toward the front passenger ears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Check out the FRONT drivers they are 4 ohm.. See Photo I am hoping that you are wrong about the REAR being 10 ohm and hoping that they would NOT put 4 ohm in the front and 10 ohm in the rear which I doubt.... Hindsight is 20-20, or however that saying goes, but I did think at the time a 10 ohm speaker was quite odd. I don't know the Bose system at all so I wasn't in a position to question it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Willie maybe thats it, this is not the Bose system this is the BASE system.. Maybe the BOSE system is 10 ohm.. Don't get me wrong I am thrilled, that I have a MATCH! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Rear of tweeter, note 4 ohm. You really can't see it but there is a 4.7 microfad 5 volt capacitor on the left circled, I am assuming that is the 'crossover' and full output frequency is coming to this driver before the cap, so I can use the crossover that came with my Cerwin Vega to give it only the highs. The 5 1/4 is getting full frequency, it sounds pretty good, but I need to work on its fit, its slightly small for the hole. Maybe I can center it better. I was surprised that this speaker was open to the elements inside the door and the rear appears to have gotten wet.. What do you guys think about me using the old tweeter's frame as a holder for my new tweeter and just us my dremel to make the hole? Or should I fabricate a new frame angled up more toward the front passenger ears? Scotty, I think you are on the right track, the sweeter is seeing the full dynamic range before the capacitor, and the capacitor is acting as a high pass filter, cutting out lower frequencies at a given point. I have used OEM grilles and such to mount aftermarket drivers, to preserve the look, and by all means, if you can make it work easily, more power to you. try not to alter the tweeter though, so in case you "blow it", you can return it. I also buy the extended warranty on speakers in a store, becasue, they typically can be "smoked". I'm not sure you were offered a plan if you bought them over the internet. Is your cross-over a remote unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Willie, if I were to make a new frame, what material would you use? Sheet metal or would that resonate? I am thinking that I could design a sheetmetal fixture with an upward bend what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 For informational purposes here is the front of the tweeter: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Willie, if I were to make a new frame, what material would you use? Sheet metal or would that resonate? I am thinking that I could design a sheetmetal fixture with an upward bend what do you think? Did your new speakers not come with a tweeter mount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 A flush mount and a recessed mount for the door face. I was hoping to use the existing location. Do 'upscale' auto sound shops sell tweeter solutions? ie frames, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 For informational purposes here is the front of the tweeter: Does the tweeter have mounting holes you can pick up on the OEM housing, or do they simply cilp into the new twetter housing...., you may want to use the new housing to keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 For informational purposes here is the front of the tweeter: Does the tweeter have mounting holes you can pick up on the OEM housing, or do they simply cilp into the new twetter housing...., you may want to use the new housing to keep it simple. There is a twist mount for surface mount, but there is a recessed mount. Ill look it over tonight and let you know what I find, Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Scotty, For a pliable speaker gasket, maybe some windshield sealant might suffice? Good luck OK now, I just gotta ask... What's with the worn springs, struts, shocks, broken seats and now speakers? The parts diagnosis alone points to the fact that you must be throwing wild parties inside your Caddy! Next you will be asking about stain removal in general and how to remove certain garments that got tangled under seats, poked into ductwork, etc. The SPCA will be talking to you my friend... Society for the Prevention of Caddy Abuse Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 I only wish my friend (I even got the windows tinted) but very little is going on inside the car! No time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc_caddy Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Well you had me scared for about a week with that 10 ohm statement! Remind me to virtual smack you in the head for the sleep I lost over that 10 ohm statement! Check out the FRONT drivers they are 4 ohm.. See Photo I am hoping that you are wrong about the REAR being 10 ohm and hoping that they would NOT put 4 ohm in the front and 10 ohm in the rear which I doubt.... LOL. I think I may send that virtual smack right back at you, Scotty! I'm pretty sure that the rear 6x9s for non-Bose systems is "10 ohms". I know the fronts are 4 ohms (I'd already replaced mine with Infinity 5.25s). They sound much better than OEM, and the attached tweeter is swivel mounted for directional aim. But seriously, the rears are 10 ohms. I had difficulties removing the back seat to access the rear speakers, otherwise I would have replaced them and let this forum know if using typical 4 Ohms speakers would cause a problem or not. Please report back Scotty. I am definitely interested in your findings! Thanks. Now... if I could only find the strength (and luck) to remove the rear seats. I know you have to push in and pull up, but it's NOT EASY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 I am telling you! Can you imagine having to remove the ENTIRE back seat to get the speakers out from the TOP! Its like removing a wisdom tooth through your EAR! LOL Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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