PAT38915 Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 the final decision on my caddy,2000, deville, with 35,000 miles on it,............is it has a cracked engine, and they will replace it for $8,620 with my part being $4,310. im not happy with this, but my hands are tied, i have to have a car and i have put so much into this one, i cant afford not to keep it at this point..i will have a warranty when this is finished and im happy for that, because im hearing more and more stories about these cars..im not the only one that has had to replace an engine, there are more in this small town of 1500 people and i cant imagine how many nation wide..im still very unhappy..very unhappy, and im going to keep on reporting this car on every cadillac link i can find..and calling everyone that i can get a phone number for that is associated with general motors..thanks for all your input... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 the final decision on my caddy,2000, deville, with 35,000 miles on it,............is it has a cracked engine, and they will replace it for $8,620 with my part being $4,310. im not happy with this, but my hands are tied, i have to have a car and i have put so much into this one, i cant afford not to keep it at this point..i will have a warranty when this is finished and im happy for that, because im hearing more and more stories about these cars..im not the only one that has had to replace an engine, there are more in this small town of 1500 people and i cant imagine how many nation wide..im still very unhappy..very unhappy, and im going to keep on reporting this car on every cadillac link i can find..and calling everyone that i can get a phone number for that is associated with general motors..thanks for all your input... Well thank you Pat, and goodbye. PS; Maybe you can turn this into a win/win for us all. When the repair is finished, sell it. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Well I know it hurts financially, but you will have a warranty on the engine and thats a great thing. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjtjwdad Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Pat; The million dollar question is: What was the "ROOT" cause of the failure??? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Pat; The million dollar question is: What was the "ROOT" cause of the failure??? Jim, that's a great question, and something that still hasn't been disclosed to us. The only reason someone would "need" a new Northstar engine would be because of a cracked block I think. Pat, so many dealerships advise engine replacement for simple, simple repairs (like head gaskets). There are WAY more engines being replaced than necessary. That's one reason this discussion really blew out of proportion. It's just unHEARD of in this camp to have to replace an engine because of physical block damage like yours apparently has. I'd love to hear the cause of the problem, if you find it out. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAT38915 Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 what the dealer told me is the block is cracked, it is visible to the eye, and they have taken pictures of it for me to see...now at this point i think thats about all they can do...as for as if they are ripping me off i have no idea..but they are not using some new parts and some old parts, they are completely putting the engine in new...do i need to ask anymore questions of cadillac, i have no idea, but i did call the headquarters this am and they have an open file and everyone is telling the same story..as what caused the block to burst i have no idea and they dont either, that is why they are paying thier share.. at this point i have more than what the blue book says the car is worth..that i dont like...but that ill have to live with...it would be hard to sell around here as everyone knows about it..so im in limbo there also..what would this car sell for if it was yours..what would you take for it...i may get my son to sell it in another city.. thanks for your info. some of you even told me goodbye, but ive gotten some good advice from you here, mostly in email..so im not saying goodbye, not yet..thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 what the dealer told me is the block is cracked, it is visible to the eye, and they have taken pictures of it for me to see...now at this point i think thats about all they can do...as for as if they are ripping me off i have no idea..but they are not using some new parts and some old parts, they are completely putting the engine in new...do i need to ask anymore questions of cadillac, i have no idea, but i did call the headquarters this am and they have an open file and everyone is telling the same story..as what caused the block to burst i have no idea and they dont either, that is why they are paying thier share.. at this point i have more than what the blue book says the car is worth..that i dont like...but that ill have to live with...it would be hard to sell around here as everyone knows about it..so im in limbo there also..what would this car sell for if it was yours..what would you take for it...i may get my son to sell it in another city.. thanks for your info. some of you even told me goodbye, but ive gotten some good advice from you here, mostly in email..so im not saying goodbye, not yet..thanks You need to see the crack yourself if it is visible and take someone with you that is mechanically knowledgable. I find it incredible that you were able to drive the car 50 miles with the crack, you should have had all sorts of problems, with overheating, warning lights, AC shutdown and it going into limp mode, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 and they have taken pictures of it for me to see...now at this point i think thats about all they can do If you can post the pictures here somehow, I think we would all love to see them. Again, this is the first time any of us have ever heard of this problem, so it's very curious to us (and suspicious to the critics). Once that new engine is in the car, it's as good as a new car. It should run hundreds of thousands of miles for you. Most of ours have. A cracked Northstar block is so rare, none of us have heard about it (as you could probably gather from our curiousity about your problem). With an engine with zero miles, I'd think you could sell that car for at least the blue book. Or sell it for half price to one of us! Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 HOW do you know that these are pictures of YOUR car? That is why I suggested you go and SEE it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 the final decision on my caddy,2000, deville, with 35,000 miles on it,............is it has a cracked engine, and they will replace it for $8,620 with my part being $4,310. im not happy with this, but my hands are tied, i have to have a car and i have put so much into this one, i cant afford not to keep it at this point..i will have a warranty when this is finished and im happy for that, because im hearing more and more stories about these cars..im not the only one that has had to replace an engine, there are more in this small town of 1500 people and i cant imagine how many nation wide..im still very unhappy..very unhappy, and im going to keep on reporting this car on every cadillac link i can find..and calling everyone that i can get a phone number for that is associated with general motors..thanks for all your input... OUCH!! That would hurt, but you will have a new car that will last a long time, with a warranty for the engine. Try not to think of it in terms of book price. At least you did not lose as much as a new one depreciates when you drive it off the lot. Keep it, and just try to enjoy driving it. I too am still interested in what actually caused the crack. Keep us informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAT38915 Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 now i can tell you this, i went to the garage and looked at the cracked block.. its is just a hairline break and it did have a bit of rust on it, which the mechanic let us know not to touch it, because the general manager is still coming to look at it..now why, since they have made thier decision, i have no idea..but i did talk to the manager myself and he said, you are lucky to get 50% covered, so i guess i am..its kinda wierd to me that when they saw me coming they all begin to scatter, meaning mechanics..im still frusturated...i asked for the pics and of course the man that made them wasnt there, so i asked him if they could be faxed to me and he said yes, so will see..he did give me a gm vehicle inquiry system summary and thats about all i found out..he said it could take 2 weeks at least to get the new engine in...wowoow...another 2 weeks without wheels.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 now i can tell you this, i went to the garage and looked at the cracked block.. >its is just a hairline break and it did have a bit of rust on it,< This should be interesting...the Northstar block is 100% aluminum alloy, which CAN NOT rust. Pictures...COLOR pictures... ..a finite element analysis would be nice too... '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 This should be interesting...the Northstar block is 100% aluminum alloy, which CAN NOT rust. traces of dry Dexcool could look like rust... The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Hair-line crack? I would add a package of GM Cooling System Seal Tabs and drive the car. There's no way a dealer would recommend to try this, as now, they stand to make much more than a $1.50. The sealant tablets (crushed ginger root and almond shells) are used by a number of manufacturers in the factory coolant fill to reduce the incidence of nuisance coolant leaks. I believe Cadillac stopped using this coolant additive in the past few years. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Pat, A major engine failure like that is not what any of us want to have happen but: I think that your $4,310 split was about the best deal you could expect (all things considered). Kelly Blue Book private party notes $13,695 for your car (if a Sedan Deville) w/35,000-miles and good condition. I suppose you can add the $4,310 to what you paid and have an idea of where you are compared to KBB. It will have a new engine ans warranty (which has to be valued separately). Some have paid extra for such a warranty and might be able to determine its value better. I would guess that this will be a very careful, complete repair. I recall that one post asked about GM's out-of-pocket cost in this. I would assume that it would be much less than the retail or book price you are splitting. However, I can not imagine getting that info from GM. Even if you had the real cost for GM - the negotiations could be closed at a point of their choosing. Regardless of any of the preceding, your continued grief arguing against GM would have a personal cost, but you might not realize it for quite some time. As with any of life's misfortunes, we all have to move on at some point. Really, Good Luck Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Pat, I wouldn't call if a "FINAL" decision until the area rep or manager has a look at it. All that I can advise you to do is to be cool and see what happens. If you try to raise 9 kinds of hell for his benifit, then he may just find a reason that the cause was "abuse" (such as allowing the engine to freeze with inadequate antifreeze) and recind the 50/50 offer. On the other hand, if he finds that there was indeed a problem with the manufacture of the engine, then he could possibly offer more. You need to get some good digital pictures of the "crack" so you can post them so we can see what is going on. Pictures that are faxxed will probably be to poor to see well even if you could scan them to post. Remember, the people on this board are not Cadillac or GM. We are here because most of us love are cars and try to help each other when problems arrise. Comming on this board and making statements about (in your opinion) what terrible cars they are, reduces the sympathy level by a factor of ten. Believe me, we are not happy with your situation and wish you the best. I hope that it all works out for you. I'm sure that you understand by now that, LEGALLY, Cadillac and GM don't OWE you anything. Your car was purchashed from an individual, not the dealer where the car is now. The original warranty had expired by calender time. In reality they could tell you "TOUGH" and be legally correct. The fact that they have offered a 50/50 split is to attempt to help, not because they think that they are at fault. If you keep that idea in mind when talking to the area rep, I think that you will see their side also. Good Luck Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I have had a 40 year relationship with a Cadillac/Olds dealer and called the them today on this. As was stated elsewhere, the service manager stated that it is rare for these engines to crack, but when they do, its between cylinders or near where the engine mount connects but it is rare. He said, that it's possible to hit something in the road, a curb, debris, etc and ram the engine up, the engine mount holds on, and the block cracks. You said this >> as what caused the block to burst i have no idea and they dont either, that is why they are paying thier share..<<< No, he said GM had no responsibility to fix it without a warranty and that the only reason GM paid 50% was because the car only had 35,000 miles on it, and that while time-wise the car was out of warranty, mileage-wise it was still under warranty and GM does not want a product out there that is defective. What they do not want is this car being fixed by some unscrupulous mechanic with MarineTec Epoxy and having it end up on a Cadillac lot with low mileage being sold as a low mileage or GM Certified car at some point. If this car was purchased directly from Cadillac, it would have been fixed 100% by GM. If this car had 51,000 miles they would have done nothing. He added that if the customer was nasty and not polite they would play by the letter of the law. Since its possible that the damage has been caused by impact or negligence and since this is NOT a common problem with their engines, I would appreciate it if you would stop badmouthing GM/Cadillacs with statements like this >> im going to keep on reporting this car on every cadillac link i can find..and calling everyone that i can get a phone number for that is associated with general motors << NOTE: I am not saying that you were negligent, maybe someone else was, maybe it was cracked before you owned it and "fixed", the bottom line is, you don't know what happened but now you know that these cracks are rare.. Contrary to Paul T's recommendation, I seriously think you need to sell this car as soon as possible and get some nice quiet dependable car with a bumper to bumper warranty. This Cadillac is clearly the wrong car for you without a bumper to bumper warranty, but it would be perfect for most people on this board. Without a warranty (full warranty not just on the engine), this is a car that needs an owner that understands the mechanical, electrical and computerized systems, and you don't. You will pay heavily through the nose without a warranty on this and any other aging car for that matter if you do not do the work yourself, plain and simple. These cars are not as simple as your Lincoln was 20 years ago; they are complicated, very technical, high performance vehicles. As a result because you are currently unhappy you will continue to moan and groan about that car, its wrong for you plain and simple. The last two cars I purchased (a 91 and 96), I purchased from a gentleman that tracks his repair costs. Once the repair costs become excessive and he is outside of warranty he sells the car to me, as it becomes illogical for him to continue to own the car and pay for an increasing level of repairs. A person like myself can only own the car because, 1) I have $50,000 in tools, 2) I own the service manuals, 3) I have worked as a first-class mechanic at Sun Shipbuilding and Drydock on cranes, pumps and machines for 6 years, 4) had a father that was a B-29 mechanic who began my mechanical training when I was 6 standing on a milk crate looking at the flat-head 6 on our 54 Packard Caribbean. And, 5) I could not do it without the wealth of information and incredible people on this board! I could not afford to take this car to the dealer to have it repaired. In two weeks I am doing struts, springs, bushings, tensioner, idler wheel, AC compressor, thermostat, accumulator, rear stabilizer bushings, and a hub, do you have ANY idea what that work would cost to have done at the dealer and my car is only 4 years older than yours! Get ready! This is a hobby for me. I don’t care if something goes wrong as the car ages, I enjoy the challenge and love fixing things, mechanics is my first love. I would say that the majority of people on this board have very much the same profile as I do, we are inquisitive, technical, patient people that don't moan and complain and just fix problems as they arise on our aging Cadillacs. The first time the Check Engine light comes on you are going to freak out, badmouth GM/Cadillac, and contact the attorney general whereas we would just fix the problem. Seriously consider selling it for your own piece of mind, unless you have deep pockets and patience. You have been forewarned so when what I have said comes true please don't badmouth GM and Cadillac the car is wrong for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gygmy Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Good luck with your "new" car. I sincerely hope that you can get by what was certainly a stressfull and unpleasant experience. Keep an open mind when it comes to driving your car. Do not let the past bad experience affect your potential enjoyment of what is, for the vast majority of drivers, a fantastic driving and performance machine. Let us know how it has worked-out. It seems you have had an overall beneficial experience in obtaining information and assistance from this board. Emotions can overwhelm us all but in the end they are usually moderated by the discussion or even rant. If you have had to develop an understanding of the mechanicals of your car, given, under difficult circumstances, that is a good thing. The knowledge is something you can always use and take pride in of obtaining. Please do not treat your car as if it is always going to break if you catch my drift. Drive it hard and to it's potential when you get the opportunity. The car just might want to make up to you. May you have many years of satisfying motoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Hi Pat, Just wondering, have you gotten your car back yet? What did the area rep say? We would like to hear the "OFFICIAL" cause of your cracked block troubles. Thanks, Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 WHOA! My apologies, I didn't read the list of items closely enough,,, Ten days, Oh well, sorry if I stirred the pot unnecessecarily! Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 After the above two posts from me, I went back and read the full "Caddyinfo.com Discussion Board" post started by PAT. Boy, did I step in it! The only excuse that I have for getting out of touch with the developments on this situation is that I took a trip to Quincy, IL this weekend in the SLS. Got 26.4 MPG overall for the entire trip. Average speed 62.5 MPH. Not too shabby for a car with 176,000 miles on it. If Pat hadn't started a new thread, then I wouldn't have "stepped in it". Pat, The 10 days dosen't seem out of line. Your engine is not the same as a current production engine. They apparently have to build one to your specs. That takes time.---- BE PATIENT---- I think that I will set back, keep my big mouth shut (on this thread), and read the fireworks. If this keeps up Scotty & Pat will have to install cooler fans on their modems! Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 If this keeps up Scotty & Pat will have to install cooler fans on their modems! Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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