Dhen7181 Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Need help and or advice. I have a 2004 Cadillac deville that hasn't started since February. Car drove fine until I got home one day and it started to have a bad hesitation/misfire until it died. I restarted it and th hesitation/misfire continued until it died and never started again. I've changed the crankshaft A/B sensor and the camshaft sensor with still no luck, I even changed the wire harness for the crankshaft a sensor. Can anybody give me any insight in what's going on or point me in the righhere direction. I can continuously try start it, sometimes it'll turn over but will die soon after. Codes that are shown are P0016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) How many miles are on the engine? Has it had any major engine work? Any unusual engine noises? First, if you have a code reader, check for other codes and post all of them here. Possible causes: Mechanical timing fault (stretched timing chain or worn/damaged timing chain tensioner) Blocked oil passage Low oil level Faulty Intake ('A') Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Faulty Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor I'm thinking the timing chain follower/tensioner is probably worn. If there are no other codes, remove the front cover and check the chain. and timing mark positions with number 1 cylinder at top dead center. Edited July 3, 2017 by OldCadTech Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Have you disconnected the battery to get rid of the code, get the system to reboot then try it? Are you 100% positive that you put the wire for the top back on the top?, and bottom on the bottom on the crank sensors? The 2 sensors have different part numbers, I am not sure if they can be flipped physically, but did you consider that? They are located in a tough location are you sure the plug is on both connectors?, given that you replaced a harness doubtful but I had to ask. Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 @OldCadTech I vaguely recall someone speaking about a relearn being needed after a crank position sensor replacement, but have not hear of it again. That is why I suggested a battery disconnect above if it has not been done yet. I have personally never needed to change a crank sensor so the issue has never arisen for me but its always been in the back of my head. Have you heard of a relearn being necessary? Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhen7181 Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 I've read some places about a relearn procedure being required and the only person to do it was gm dealer. Is there any truth behind this? i put the code reader on it and that was the only code to have shown past and current Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhen7181 Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 I was worried about if it did jump timing or the tensioner being bad. If that is the case around how much am I looking to spend at the shop to get it fixed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Confirm for me, have your disconnected the battery for a few minutes, reconnected and tried to start? Consider that you received a bad crank sensor also, re-boxed or scammed With regard to the jumped timing, I don't believe in coincidences, you have this code and its enough to stop you Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 2 hours ago, BodybyFisher said: @OldCadTech I vaguely recall someone speaking about a relearn being needed after a crank position sensor replacement, but have not hear of it again. That is why I suggested a battery disconnect above if it has not been done yet. I have personally never needed to change a crank sensor so the issue has never arisen for me but its always been in the back of my head. Have you heard of a relearn being necessary? Yes that is one of the things that warrants a idle relearn but I don't think it will help because it will not stay running long enough for a test drive if I'm reading the post correctly. Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Here is a thread to look at, regarding relearning its very interesting but I am not sure if NOT doing the relearn would cause the problem being experienced, but wanted to put this out there http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips-how-fix/116089-northstar-crankshaft-position-ckp-sensor-replacement.html Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) Definitely worth a try to do the reset as @BodybyFisher suggested. Disconnect both battery cables from the battery and touch the cable ends together to drain any residual voltage then reconnect. Edited July 3, 2017 by OldCadTech Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 When it is running does it backfire or pop through the intake or exhaust? Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Here is an odd thought from someone who does not believe in coincidences.... Check your fuel pressure! (I really hate my android substituting its own words, I go back sometimes and what I wrote makes no sense) Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 LOL, GOOD THOUGHT !!! Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees. Nice out of the box suggestion BodybyFisher 1 Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 @Dhen7181 do you know how to check for fuel pressure? Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhen7181 Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 hour ago, BodybyFisher said: Confirm for me, have your disconnected the battery for a few minutes, reconnected and tried to start? Consider that you received a bad crank sensor also, re-boxed or scammed With regard to the jumped timing, I don't believe in coincidences, you have this code and its enough to stop you I can confirmed I disconnected the battery, it actually died with me trying to continuously start it ? So a battery replacement was the next step because it has a dead cell. I've thought maybe it could be a faulty part. Is there a way to check this or would I just need to order another crank sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhen7181 Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 28 minutes ago, OldCadTech said: When it is running does it backfire or pop through the intake or exhaust? When it does start from me holding down the gas it does pop and backfire until it slowly dies out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhen7181 Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 29 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said: Here is an odd thought from someone who does not believe in coincidences.... Check your fuel pressure! (I really hate my android substituting its own words, I go back sometimes and what I wrote makes no sense) Will check fuel pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhen7181 Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, OldCadTech said: @Dhen7181 do you know how to check for fuel pressure? I've changed the fuel filter and checked for pressure on the fuel rail by pressing the valve stem it had fuel coming out of both but I haven't actually ran a fuel pressure test on it yet Edited July 3, 2017 by Dhen7181 Mispell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 It could have insufficient pressure and exhibit the same symptoms. Sometimes the auto parts stores will have a pressure tester you can rent. I think you have to leave your first born and your wallet with them though BodybyFisher 1 Quote THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 @Dhen7181 what was the outcome here? Did you get this fixed? Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhen7181 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) @BodybyFisherLow compression on cylinders 1-2. Guess I’ll be looking into a engine replacement ? Edited April 20, 2018 by Dhen7181 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 @Dhen7181 you never got it started? Never resolved the P0016 CAM code? Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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