milansky

seville 1996 transmission stuck in second gear

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47 minutes ago, milansky said:

0Line pressure test update: minimum and maximum line pressure as listed in GM manual within required limits in Drive Park Reverse and Neutral.

List of codes available: TC0027. TC0073. P0741. AC1340 and codes involving memory alive.... No codes for shift solenoids.

Sonnax company is asking for ridiculous money just for tool set in order to install valve body rebuild kit so better choice is going for a rebuilt lower valve body unit with guarantee for 239$. 

When changed along with EBCTM unit will let you about car's behaviour. Thx for help on this so far.

Good luck, anxious to see your results


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keep us posted. Best of luck to you


GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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On ‎12‎. ‎7‎. ‎2017 at 5:38 PM, BodybyFisher said:

Good luck, anxious to see your results

Hi guys, here is the update after few weeks of waiting for parts. As mentioned in previous communication, Cadillac Seville has been suffering with "Stuck in second gear" condition, ABS and TRACTION CONTROL light on. Used EBTCM unit (the brain part) replaced = ABS and Traction control light is GONE, car breaks normally. New LOWER VALVE BODY put in transmission = car works and shifts as smooth as before. Happy, car fixed after 4 years of on and off finding what was wrong with it. Next day car is stuck in second gear again. I mean WOW. What the ... 

 

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Hi guys, here is the update after few weeks of waiting for parts. As mentioned in previous communication, Cadillac Seville has been suffering with "Stuck in second gear" condition, ABS and TRACTION CONTROL light on. Used EBTCM unit (the brain part) replaced = ABS and Traction control light is GONE, car breaks normally. New LOWER VALVE BODY put in transmission = car works and shifts as smooth as before. Happy, car fixed after 4 years of on and off finding what was wrong with it. Next day car is stuck in second gear again. I mean WOW. What the ... 

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Check that big transmission connector....


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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16 hours ago, OldCadTech said:

Check that big transmission connector....

Regarding that tranny stuck in second gear. When replacing lower valve body we again found and removed some dirt - debris like from a cloth used for wiping parts clean. Question stands: is it possible for torque converter that had not been replaced or thoroughly flushed to send debris into valve body or somewhere else and cause blockage?

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Yes, it is possible but as I recall, you did not have a lot of debris in the transmission prior to the rebuild. There is actually 2 different fluids in the torque convertor. There is a viscous convertor fluid that is very thick and if it leaks into the transmission fluid it turns the trans fluid to a very dark color.

GM came out with a notice against using shop rags to clean transmissions a long time ago. If the debris you found was shop rag material you may have to clean the valve body a few more times to remove all the material.


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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On ‎24‎. ‎8‎. ‎2017 at 4:44 PM, OldCadTech said:

Yes, it is possible but as I recall, you did not have a lot of debris in the transmission prior to the rebuild. There is actually 2 different fluids in the torque convertor. There is a viscous convertor fluid that is very thick and if it leaks into the transmission fluid it turns the trans fluid to a very dark color.

GM came out with a notice against using shop rags to clean transmissions a long time ago. If the debris you found was shop rag material you may have to clean the valve body a few more times to remove all the material.

Hi, looks like transmission is getting stuck due to some kind of debris causing problems in lower valve body. It is probably being sent into tranny from torque converter so we are planning to flush the tranny by running engine and letting fluid exit through the auxiliary cooling radiator in the front. But I have another problem regarding engine which is occurring when engine is cold and that is - very rough idle and engine stall, almost. When engine is hot problem disappears. The collant is disappearing as well as so it might be blown head gasket that was changed - 100 miles driven on new one. Im very concerned about FEL - PRO quality of head gaskets form ROCKAUTO that seem to give up. When removing intake manifold I found oil present on valves. Could that be seals on valves in camshaft?

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Absolutely will not hurt to flush the transmission.

If the debris is rag material and it is in the valve body, only way to remove the debris will be to take the valve body down and clean the valves


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Is it safe for complete transmission drain to leave oil pan and lower valve body removed while unhooking oil return line from radiator? Drain plug also removed.  I want to drain remaining oil while engine and transmission running in "D". Thanks

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I would never do that.  Why are you trying to flush the tranny further than a simple drain?

I have 'flushed' fluid through the oil cooler lines.  Direct the return into a 5 gallon bucket, start engine, as soon as the line spits air, shut engine off.  Fill with clean fluid.  

Was the torque converter changed?


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Just noticed on lower valve body that small filter close to shift solenoids popped out again about half inch or so. I used a new filter with O ring. Could that be reason for tranny going into limp mode being stuck in second? Just to mention. After replacing all solenoids and filters due previous problems car worked fine. Next day bam. From first into second and thats it. I removed lower valve body again and there it is. Little filter popped out.

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4 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

I would never do that.  Why are you trying to flush the tranny further than a simple drain?

I have 'flushed' fluid through the oil cooler lines.  Direct the return into a 5 gallon bucket, start engine, as soon as the line spits air, shut engine off.  Fill with clean fluid.  

Was the torque converter changed?

No. TC was not changed. That flushing u r talking about was while D engaged with brake on or just in P normal idle?

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Just now, milansky said:

No. TC was not changed. That flushing u r talking about was while D engaged with brake on or just in P normal idle?

Also the reason for thorough flush is the reason of tranny being stuck in second gear again. All after tranny overhaul. It is second time Im flushing tranny since after lower valve body replacement tranny worked fine. Below I mentioned that after second lower valve body removal I found that small filter between shift solenoids was popped out. Could that be a reason for pressure changes that influenced shift solenoids and limp mode results? Second gear only

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8 minutes ago, milansky said:

No. TC was not changed. That flushing u r talking about was while D engaged with brake on or just in P normal idle?

I always did the flush alone, and am pretty sure the car was in park.

If you have a P0741 code, it results from the TCC (torque converter clutch) in the torque converter slipping.  

That slipping can be caused by; 1) bad TCC solenoid, 2) bad wiring, 3) bad teflon seals on the input shaft area, 4) a leaky valve in the valve body and 5) worn out TCC clutches that no matter how good everything else is, will continue to slip.   The P0741 overheats the TCC clutches and delaminates the clutch material.  

In my opinion, the torque converter MUST be replaced once the P0741 sets.  Since you can not see inside the TC you can not see their condition.   

The P0741 won't cause 2nd gear starts.

Post your P codes.  ABS and TC codes can cause 2nd gear starts.


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I have seen problems with the main plug cause 2nd gear starts.

You can test resistance through the plug of the shift solenoids have you done that?


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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39 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

I have seen problems with the main plug cause 2nd gear starts.

You can test resistance through the plug of the shift solenoids have you done that?

Main plug will be checked tmrw. Resistance of solenoids will be checked tommorow. They are brand new ones with new lower valve body just to make sure. All other solenoids were changed as well. The thing is that after changing lower valve body with fluid drained car worked fine smooth shifts as well. On next day again only second gear. 

Edited by milansky

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Do you know how to check resistance through the plug?

These photos are from my 94 manual, do you have the 96 manual?  This is what you are looking for in the 96 manual.  If you dont have this from a 96, Ill find my 96 manual and post it. 

What worries me are bad connections at the plug, clean with electrical contact cleaner

20180417_160140.jpg

20180417_160152.jpg

20180417_160216.jpg

20180417_160245.jpg


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Friend of mine is great with car electricals + I have the same manual like the one shown. I have found quite interesting link below. That guy is talking about that small filter in between shift solenoids popped out which is also my case.

https://www.justanswer.com/cadillac/99dsf-1994-cadillac-seville-sts-4t80e-transmission-it-s-stuck.html

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Let us know how it turns out tomorrow. 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Solenoids and main plug readings are fine. The only thing we need to figure out is what is causing that small screen filter in between shift solenoid to pop out. O-ring on that filter seems strong enough to hold in place in lower valve body but something is forcing it out. It is second time we found it popped out about quarter of inch and it is after fully functioning transmission ended up being stuck in second gear. Is it possible for pressure switch located on lower valve body to force fluid under incorrect pressure to push out that small screen? This could be the reason for loss of fluid pressure in lower valve body.

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The screen in this photo is the one you speak of correct?  Maybe that is your problem.  Are the shift solenoids the new design with bracket?  Maybe it is not installed correctly?

What valve body did you replace?

We are looking for second gear starts.  

The torque converter was not replaced and could distribute clutch material, what does the pan show?  If you have ANY debris, you are spinning your wheels.  We know that the P0741 damages the TC clutches and can spew clutch material.  

Have you looked at this?

https://www.sonnax.com/parts/2338-afl-valve-kit

 

4t80e-new-oem-updated-shift-solenoid-kit-hardware-99353_190917253633.jpg


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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11 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

The screen in this photo is the one you speak of correct?  Maybe that is your problem.  Are the shift solenoids the new design with bracket?  Maybe it is not installed correctly?

What valve body did you replace?

We are looking for second gear starts.  

The torque converter was not replaced and could distribute clutch material, what does the pan show?  If you have ANY debris, you are spinning your wheels.  We know that the P0741 damages the TC clutches and can spew clutch material.  

Have you looked at this?

https://www.sonnax.com/parts/2338-afl-valve-kit

 

4t80e-new-oem-updated-shift-solenoid-kit-hardware-99353_190917253633.jpg

Hi. Yes, that´s the screen I was talking about. Unfortunately I have new solenoids but without bracket. Purchased via rockauto.com. I replaced the lower valve body and reinstalled shift solenoids and small screen in between solenoids just like you pictured. All screen, filter are new also via rockauto.com.

Regarding TConverter, tranny pan is clean no residue at all. After replacing lower valve body and putting refiltered AT fluid transmission worked fine, no whining, really smooth ride and shifting. Next day car ended up stuck in second gear ONLY with no codes at all. After removing pan I found that screen about quarter of inch popped out. I would post a photo for others to see but max.total size is 0,2MB. What? How did you manage upload photos on here? There is no way photo above is 0,2 MB. Thanks.

By the way. Im getting a bracket to secure the lower valve body screen in position, cant trust that original Oring. After getting car running I will put update here.

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The maximum file size ks 500 megs.  0.2 megs is 200 meg no?    It is possible that as a long term member and part time moderator that my file size ceiling is higher.  Photobucket no longer allows third party linking and that created problems.

I am not sure why your screen keeps popping out, I had never heard that happening before.  

Rockauto while cheap can sometimes send stuff out that was returned and there are missing parts.  Maybe you were suppose to get a bracket?  

I think you found your problem.


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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7 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

The maximum file size ks 500 megs.  0.2 megs is 200 meg no?    It is possible that as a long term member and part time moderator that my file size ceiling is higher.  Photobucket no longer allows third party linking and that created problems.

I am not sure why your screen keeps popping out, I had never heard that happening before.  

Rockauto while cheap can sometimes send stuff out that was returned and there are missing parts.  Maybe you were suppose to get a bracket?  

I think you found your problem.

I will let all members know after assembly.

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