Marika Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 As I understand it, the antifreeze mixture for the 4.9L engine should be 50/50. What happens to the engine if you put in a stronger mix? What's the safest concentration and why? How high of a mix can you put in the 4.9L? What damage occurs at 100% antifreeze? If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Marika, I believe most coolant manufacturers state no stronger, or weaker, than 30/70 or 70/30. Some might say 40/60 or 60/40. Too little coolant and you lose corrosion protection (and freeze worthiness). Too much coolant and you lose cooling ability (and freeze worthiness). Pure coolant doesn't have near the cooling capacity as 50/50. In fact, I understand that pure water has the best cooling capacity, but it obviously lacks any sort of corrosion protection (and freeze protection), so you mix it 50/50. 50/50 is the best I'd say. If it weren't, Caddy would spec. otherwise. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Marika, I believe most coolant manufacturers state no stronger, or weaker, than 30/70 or 70/30. Some might say 40/60 or 60/40. Too little coolant and you lose corrosion protection (and freeze worthiness). Too much coolant and you lose cooling ability (and freeze worthiness). Pure coolant doesn't have near the cooling capacity as 50/50. In fact, I understand that pure water has the best cooling capacity, but it obviously lacks any sort of corrosion protection (and freeze protection), so you mix it 50/50. 50/50 is the best I'd say. If it weren't, Caddy would spec. otherwise. What about higher concentrations? Is there a connection between higher concentrations and engine damage? If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I agree with Jason. Also anything more or less than 50/50 mix can affect the heating ability of the climate control. You can get a tester at Walmart to check the cooling ability of the mixture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Higher concentrations will lower the freeze protection ie: lower tempurature. I don't think it will harm the engine except as Jason mentioned will lower the boiling point add can cause overheating if to high a concentration is used. Dex-Cool on the other hand is acid based so I would never even think of running more than 50% much less100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I found this on the Prestone site: Q: What is the best antifreeze/coolant concentration for a vehicle? Can I use 100% antifreeze? A: We recommend that you use between a 50% and 70% concentration of antifreeze. At least 50% is necessary to give the adequate amount of corrosion protection, as well as freeze/boilover protection. However, we do not recommend more than 70% antifreeze. This would cause restriction of the heat transfer capabilities, corrosion protection, and freeze protection. The concentration of freeze/boilover protection of the antifreeze mixture can be checked using a Prestone® Antifreeze Coolant Tester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I don't know about additional "harm" (aside from the poorer boiling and freeze points that were already noted). But at least in theory - if the coolant had no water, then the pump would have to work harder against the "heavier solution". Just assuming that antifreeze has a specific gravity of 1.2 as opposed to water at 1.0. This costs horsepower to no avail. Sure, this could be negligible in such a small system, but I tend to think of flows from 1,000 to 10,000 gpm (big differences here) If the coolant is heavier, then other fluid dynamics also come in to play. Specifically (watch for the pun), the discharge pressure of the pump at a given engine speed will be higher by the increased specific gravity. This heavier solution flying around could stress any marginal hose fittings and other plumbing. Granted, the system pressure will remain about 15 psig or so (regulated by the fans etc). The pressure I'm referring to is the pump's differential pressure from suction to discharge. The dynamics are more relative to hose elbows (from heavier fluids). Then there is the problem of reduced system flow due to higher viscosity. There could be significant problems with quasi-calibrated flows through the very small engine block passages. If the silicated antifreeze can cause seal wear, then that issue becomes only worse with higher concentrations. I'm not certain if 100% Dexcool would really lower the pH any more than the 50/50 solution. I don't think the water (ideally distilled) would offer much of a pH buffer or work to raise the pH significantly. Still, 100% Dexcool is probably not wise for all the above reasons anyway. Add to this the higher cost of the 100% antifreeze. In any case - 100% antifreeze is not a a good thing. And just hold on - if Guru gets good and wound up on this one... Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Another thing to take into consideration is the thermal expansion of the liquids. I believe etilenglycol has much higher coefficient than water. Boob addressed this question some time ago. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Adallak Ol'e buddy, Boob addressed this question some time ago. Which "Boob" would this be? The right Boob or the Left one? LOL LOL LOL Had to say it guy... Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maremrak Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Well, when I changed the coolant in August, the mechanic just pour it strait. The impression was that it already had a proper mixture. What are you guys saying, that any coolant mixture has to be mixed with water, or should we pay attention to the mixture procentage on the bottle? 1960 Sedan De Ville (sold) 1970 Coupe De Ville (sold) 1987 Mazda RX-7 (sold) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 As I understand it, the antifreeze mixture for the 4.9L engine should be 50/50. What happens to the engine if you put in a stronger mix? What's the safest concentration and why? How high of a mix can you put in the 4.9L? What damage occurs at 100% antifreeze? Pure ethylene-glycol is more viscous than water and more viscous than the correct 50/50 solution. This slows down the coolant flow and makes the cooling system less efficient. So...the greater the concentration of pure coolant the less efficient the cooling sytem is. The specific heat of pure ethylene-glycol is less than that of pure water. It will not "hold" as much heat which reduces the capacity of the cooling system. So higher concentrations of coolant could cause overheating due to reduced capacity in marginal conditions. The optimum freeze/boil protection is at the 50/50 ratio. Pure green silicated coolant has a very high concentration of silicates...silicates are abrasive. Expect far less water pump seal life with higher concentrations of EG. Pure green silicated EG has a tendency to gel when it sits....so...expect many more clogged heater cores with high concentrations of EG. Pure DexCool is extremely acidic and will cause harm to gaskets, seals, heat exchangers, etc. if use in concentrations above 70 percent coolant. 50 percent is recommended. This is so important that it was considered never even marketing "straight" DexCool.... When DexCool went on the market there was serious consideration to only offering it as a 50/50 premix to prevent inadvertent installation in ratios above 50%..... 50/50 is the optimum ratio...no need to experiment. It has already been done for you. There are extreme cases where one aspect of the cooling system is traded off for other considerations...like equipment used on the North Slope building the Alaska Pipeline that had to survive in -80 weather....LOL....water pump seals and maximum cooling system efficiency were traded off for freeze protection....LOL. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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