Regis Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 I've got a metal on rubber (I think) groaning sound coming from the front end. It's noticeable when turning the wheel only to the left, either while stationary or while making slow left. If I hold the wheel firmly in place while turning left.... no sound. So basicly the sound only occurs while the steering wheel is in motion towards the left. Any suggestions as to what might be causing this? Thanks. -kg "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Kger2, By your description, this noise might be related to a hub/wheel bearing. The wheel/hub bearing noise can be noticed in only one direction due to the mode of failure. There are a lot of good posts (30-days and older) on that subject. Actually, I'm surprised Scotty has not nailed this one already. If not wheel/hub bearing, then the power steering and the rack/pinion assembly might have a problem. I would guess the power steering assist involves diversion valves into a hydraulic cylinder. Perhaps the diversion valve assembly or the hyd cyl - that are used to turn left - have a mechanical problem. Some simple questions related to the above observation: 1. Does the steering wheel vibrate any more to the left? 2. Is the power steering fluid level OK? 3. Is the power steering pump belt OK? 4. Is there a hyd dampener on the steering linkage that is complaining? 5. Is your Mother-in-Law still tied to the left-front bumper? Good Luck Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 I have had this noise but I believe its in both directions, its not a rolling noise its in the steering column no? It results from turning the steering wheel. It happens to me more when its cold outside. I was going to take a look at my steering shaft at some point and see if there is a grease fitting or if either the universal joint or intermediate shaft need to be repacked with grease. I will look in my manual tonight. You say that if you hold the wheel firmly the noise goes away. Is there a bearing in the top end of the steering shaft? Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 From the description of kqer2 it is NOT a bad hub bearing. A bad hub bearing would not make any noise when car does not move. Sounds like something wrong with the rack or some other steering parts. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 When I said the noise goes away when i hold the wheel firm I meant that as long as i'm not turning the steering wheel to the left there is no sound. The groaning sound only happens when I crank the steering wheel to the left. If I stop turning the wheel the sound goes away. Say i am making a left hand turn from a stop. When I first initiate the turn by cranking the steering wheel to the left.... then you hear the sound......once I'm into the turn and just hold the steering wheel there is no sound. So the sound is only herd during the motion of turning the steering wheel to the left. Hope this helps some. It sounds like it's coming from the driver's side strut tower area? "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 5. Is your Mother-in-Law still tied to the left-front bumper? Good Luck Baahahaaa! "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 From the description of kqer2 it is NOT a bad hub bearing. A bad hub bearing would not make any noise when car does not move. Sounds like something wrong with the rack or some other steering parts. That's what i was thinking too. Other than the sound it drives fine. And yes it makes the sound if I'm stopped and turn the wheel to the left. Makes a took took took sound... speed and frequency depending on how fast I turn the wheel. Sounds like rubber on rubber or rubber on metal. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 kger2 I believe acklack had something like that... Move the Mother-in-Law to the right side, see if it makes difference The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Now that you clarify things. I agree, it is not the bearing but the mother-in-law thing has some merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Now that you clarify things. I agree, it is not the bearing but the mother-in-law thing has some merit. Ok I'll try moving her to the other side, like Scotty suggested, but I'm sure I don't have the correct tool for the job. Anyone have a spare Jaws of Life they can loan me? or..... it could be a failing head gasket. Better get James' input on this one. Quick hit the panic button. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 You know, now that I think about it more, my wifes Bonneville does that ocassionally when it's cold out. I am pretty sure it is a strut bearing. Sound logical? I haven't done anything about it yet as it is pretty rare and I really don't want to pull and disassemble a strut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhall Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Sounds like a steering gear issue. I've a got a Chevy van with the same noise and it's definately in the steering system. So far, nothing like this in the caddy's! As an easy check, you can try replacing the fluid in the steering pump and steering cylinder to see if it will kill the noise. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted February 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Today along with a fresh LOF (over 7,500 miles since the last change) Dave and I checked out the cause of the groaning sound. After filling the zirks with fresh lube it seemed to quiet down a bit. Guessing that the outer tie rod is dried out. I'll be having that done soon and will post the results. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Well the groaning noise is still there. So this afternoon, after driving around most of the morning, I detoured home from the errands to get my can of automotive silicone spray. I cocked the left front wheel so i could really get at the ball joint area. Anything around the ball joint that looked like a bushing felt my silicone wrath. Well what do you know....all is quiet. Now I just have to figure out which bushing(s) was the culprit . Looking up through the tirewell at the upper spring mount I noticed 2 little openings (holes) and shot some silicone up into them as well. The upper strut bearing plate lives up there. Don't think that was it though. Had those replaced less than 2 years ago. When the sound comes back I'm going to spray one bushing at a time to pinpoint the correct one. I'll snap a pic and post it. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Well here is the update on the groaning sound (left wheel turn only) as well as the rubber band chewing sound going over slow bumps and dips. Many thanks to Scotty for the phone call. He helped me trouble shoot and narrow down the possible culprit(s) to this most annoying problem. And, of course, thanks to those who posted. Also thanks goes out to my fiance for baring with me during this time and actually helping me. She turned the wheel back and forth while I was under the car and managed not to run me over. Both problems were caused by worn strut bar bushings. Both were bad but the left side was worn bare causing a metal to metal contact to occur during the action of turning the steering wheel to the left. Not holding it left but only during the motion of turning it in the left direction. This was more than I wanted to tackle so Dave the mech did the work. I supplied the parts. Didn't need an alignment after which was a bonus. The ride is even better now and all is quiet. What a relief. The first pic is the right (passenger) side back view. Second pic is the left side backside view. Third pic is the right front side view of the bushing. Shoved the camera inside the opening for this pic. -kg "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 2nd "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 3rd "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 KGER2, Nice informative post with great photos. Also, you did a nice clean job. Its good to see a corralation between worn strut rod bushings and specific symptoms. This post should be very helpful to others on this board. Mike PS, when you pulled your lower control arms how did your control arm bushings look? Just a thought, did you torque the lower control arm bolt at the ride height? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 kqer2, Do you see that piece of plastic splush shield behind the rod on the first picture? Before I replaced a lower ball joint, stabilizer link and that bushing the shield hit the rod every time driving over a bump making a clunck. I isolated it from the rod with a piece of paralon to make sure it was the culprit. Unfortunately, I cannot say what part was responsible for the clunck since I just replaced all possible culprits, but the bushing was really bad (looked much worse than yours). I think this is not helpful in your situation but nevertheless may help some one some other day. Great pictures BTW! The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 All 3 pics I posted are of the finished product. No before pics. I can tell you this much..... The old bushings looked fine from the backside but when you looked at them from the front (3rd pic) they had all kinds of cracks and large splits. When I was under the car and my fiance was turning the wheel back and forth, I could feel the strut bar clicking hardest at the bushing. Trust me, I grabbed everything. I felt for vibration on the ball joint, control arm, knuckle, lower strut, stabilizer link. The inner bushings were toast. The left bushing had a bare spot where there was nothing left. I could see movement in the bushing when the wheel was turning left followed by the groaning or clicking sound. Metal on metal at that point. Adallak, I knew the plastic guard wasn't a factor for two reasons. One, there were no rub or wear marks and it wasn't that kind of sound. Two, the plastic would have to sag a bit lower to contact the bar even if the bushing was missing altogether. I'll admit it would be close though and good food for thought. -kg "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.