Scotty Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 I have been having a groaning in my front end, I have it apart now and besides my pads being worn more than I thought, my hub bearing is shot.. I was able to see shinny metal filings behind the flange near the seal... YEA... Will order a new one from brasington tomorrow. I am REALLY impressed with the size of the calipers and the rotors. The rotors weigh a ton, much heavier than my 91's were. I had them cleaned and trued up... Bought a few tools to make the job easier (I love tools).. Off to pull the lower control arm out and do the ball joint... will report progress later.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprucegoose Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Wow, you sure are energetic when it comes to working on the car aren't you Mike! I am a lot like that myself... Kind of the "one thing leads to another" type work. I haven't changed out a lower control arm and ball joint in many years, that can get tough to get apart sometimes. Have to get some new tools... LOL That is part of the justification of doing it yourself right?! Yes, those brakes on the 98 Devil are pretty massive I'm sure, even my Eldorado's were bigger than I expected. Too bad I'm not closer to you, I would love to run my hole drilling program on yours and set you up with some nice cross-drilled rotors! Good luck with the project Scotty, and keep us posted! '09 Cadillac CTS-4 3.6 direct injection, 128 K mi. '15 Chevy Tahoe LTZ, 5.3i V8, 125 K mi '70 Firebird Formula 400, Bored+.04, RAIII heads, M21 4spd., in-process restoration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Wow, you sure are energetic when it comes to working on the car aren't you Mike! I am a lot like that myself... Kind of the "one thing leads to another" type work. I haven't changed out a lower control arm and ball joint in many years, that can get tough to get apart sometimes. Have to get some new tools... LOL That is part of the justification of doing it yourself right?! Yes, those brakes on the 98 Devil are pretty massive I'm sure, even my Eldorado's were bigger than I expected. Too bad I'm not closer to you, I would love to run my hole drilling program on yours and set you up with some nice cross-drilled rotors! Good luck with the project Scotty, and keep us posted! I pulled the lower control arm, drilled out the rivets, replaced the strut rod bushing, stabilizer arm bushing, cleaned and greased the caliper sliders and replaced the brake pads.. I can't believe that Caddy did not sell me the caliper bushing kit, I even asked about it... I will need to pull the LF this week to replace the hub bearing, but its moving along fine, the LF is done, can't wait to drive it. The ball joint rivets came out much easier than on my 91, but I bought a vise at Sears today and bolted it to my bench and bought a new 1/2" drill bit. This time I also used my new Milwaukee 1/2 variable speed drill, if you don't pay attention if it binds it will rip your hand clean off it has so much torque.. but it really drills hardened steel like butta.... Can't wait to do the hub bearing, get an alignment and buy a new XW4 for the LF. Next week I am off to Philadelphia for some Cheese Steaks...so I am looking forward to the trip with my new front end work.. When you cross drill do you chamfer them? My pads wore out unevenly, uneven front to back kind of angled, I will post a picture later.. Thanks, back out into the cold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 I am REALLY impressed with the size of the calipers and the rotors. The rotors weigh a ton, much heavier than my 91's were. Mike, imagine if you had a '97. They increased the brake size almost another inch (to 11.9") for '97! Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprucegoose Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 This time I also used my new Milwaukee 1/2 variable speed drill, if you don't pay attention if it binds it will rip your hand clean off it has so much torque.. but it really drills hardened steel like butta.... When you cross drill do you chamfer them? My pads wore out unevenly, uneven front to back kind of angled, I will post a picture later.. Thanks, back out into the cold... Yes, those 1/2" Milw. Drills are awesome! Make sure you hold on tight and use that side-grip handle! Oh, you are right Jason... I was thinking Mike had a 98, not a 96. Those are the whopper rotors! No, I did not chamfer my cross-drilling... I radiused the edges just like the Power Stop ones. I believe I used a .045 radius cutter if I remember correctly. This keeps the chance of cracking down to a minimum. Usually the uneven pad wear is stemming from one of the caliper slides/bushings seizing up. Mine were both worn at least 1/16" out of parallel that way also... '09 Cadillac CTS-4 3.6 direct injection, 128 K mi. '15 Chevy Tahoe LTZ, 5.3i V8, 125 K mi '70 Firebird Formula 400, Bored+.04, RAIII heads, M21 4spd., in-process restoration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Can't wait to do the hub bearing, get an alignment and buy a new XW4 for the LF. Mike, I just put new tires on my car last summer. i wanted to keep the XW4's as I was happy with them. They don't make them anymore. You may get lucky and find some but I doubt it'll be easy. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 [my new Milwaukee 1/2 variable speed drill, if you don't pay attention if it binds it will rip your hand clean off it has so much torque.. but it really drills hardened steel like butta.... I've had my Milwaukee 1/2" Magnum Hole Shooter for almost 10 years now. I would never be without it. You are right about the torque - a few years ago, my buddy & I were wiring his new house. I was drilling through the floor plate and wasn't paying attention....the electrician's bit hit a nail and slammed my hand into the wall..... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Can't wait to do the hub bearing, get an alignment and buy a new XW4 for the LF. Mike, I just put new tires on my car last summer. i wanted to keep the XW4's as I was happy with them. They don't make them anymore. You may get lucky and find some but I doubt it'll be easy. Good luck. Yes Larry you are right, I mis-spoke, I have three Symetrys that are about 3 months old, I didn't put the LF as it was eating tires because of the ball joint, so this week I will buy the Symetry. They are not too bad when they are new. I hadn't realized how bad my old tires were until I replaced them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 I am REALLY impressed with the size of the calipers and the rotors. The rotors weigh a ton, much heavier than my 91's were. Mike, imagine if you had a '97. They increased the brake size almost another inch (to 11.9") for '97! Its hard to believe they made them bigger these are huge in all respects. My shutter is gone now, had the rotors resurfaced with a non-directional finish and the braking is amazing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 [my new Milwaukee 1/2 variable speed drill, if you don't pay attention if it binds it will rip your hand clean off it has so much torque.. but it really drills hardened steel like butta.... I've had my Milwaukee 1/2" Magnum Hole Shooter for almost 10 years now. I would never be without it. You are right about the torque - a few years ago, my buddy & I were wiring his new house. I was drilling through the floor plate and wasn't paying attention....the electrician's bit hit a nail and slammed my hand into the wall..... I am not surprised the drill borders on dangerous! When we extended the house I wired the house for cable, network, video, speakers, phone, antenna and I can't tell you how many times that drill took my wrist for a spin going through studs... The purchased it to drill and tap new bolts for a new hot water coil for our boiler. I actually sprained my wrist when I binded up because I didnt know how powerful it was... Wowie.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 This time I also used my new Milwaukee 1/2 variable speed drill, if you don't pay attention if it binds it will rip your hand clean off it has so much torque.. but it really drills hardened steel like butta.... When you cross drill do you chamfer them? My pads wore out unevenly, uneven front to back kind of angled, I will post a picture later.. Thanks, back out into the cold... Yes, those 1/2" Milw. Drills are awesome! Make sure you hold on tight and use that side-grip handle! Oh, you are right Jason... I was thinking Mike had a 98, not a 96. Those are the whopper rotors! No, I did not chamfer my cross-drilling... I radiused the edges just like the Power Stop ones. I believe I used a .045 radius cutter if I remember correctly. This keeps the chance of cracking down to a minimum. Usually the uneven pad wear is stemming from one of the caliper slides/bushings seizing up. Mine were both worn at least 1/16" out of parallel that way also... Its funny you say that, I was looking for that side handle today, I needed it drilling case hardened steel... I really cleaned and greased the sliders really good, you are right the side that was the most out of parallel, the sliders were hard to move... I wish I bought new bushings, maybe I will replace them the next time I do some work.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Well the result of the work is, WOW! It rides like a NEW car! I was getting a growling that was always there but got worse when I turned off center, I was getting a vibration, and it pulled right. The LF was squatting, anotherwords, the bottom of the tire sat outward, as I jacked the car up, the bottom of the tire went IN and IN and IN and IN... I replaced the ball joint, it was loose, but I did not feel play it was just loose, I could move it with my fingers in a circle, and the grease seal was ripped making it hard to keep it greased. I also replaced the strut rod bushing and the stabilizer bar bushing.. WELL... the growl is gone, it rides straight as an arrow and its smooth, no vibration, INCREDIBLE considering the tire is a POS... The ball joint put undue pressure on the hub bearing and caused it to growl, I almost think that I don't need to replace the hub bearing but I am going to replace it anyway, it has been growling for 20,000 miles and there are metal filings... I will replace the hub bearing, buy a new tire and get it aligned now... Riding terrific now! And now I have a 5" vice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 As I mentioned I replaced the LF ball joint, strut rod bushing and stabilizer bar bushings last weekend, and the car is much tighter, it stopped pulling right and the groan from the front hub is much much quieter. Tonight I replaced the LF tire (Michelin Symmetry), now that the ball joint is replaced and since I am getting it aligned in the morning. What a difference ONE tire can make, the old tire was causing a pulsing in my steering wheel and a vibration it was badly worn. I had not replaced it because the ball joint was causing the car to squat, the others were replaced in December and January. Now the ride is smooth as silk... can't wait to see how the alignment turns out... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydone Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 hey scotty i thought u were going to replace the struts a this time this would be a great time to do that before u get an alignment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 hey scotty i thought u were going to replace the struts a this time this would be a great time to do that before u get an alignment I am going to replace the struts within the next 3 months, but my ball joint was stressing my hub bearing, I had a bad vibration, and I was wearing out my LF tire at breakneck speed. So I got the new tire last night and just got back from the alignment and its perfect, no pulling. The camber on my LF was off and a few other measures were out of the normal ranges... Its smooth as silk now, taking it to Philadelphia for cheese steaks tomorrow can't wait to feel it on the Jersey Turnpike.... Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 Did a 400 mile trip to Philadelphia, averaged 24 MPG and 58 MPH on the way home, the front end it great except I still have the hub bearing groan (much better however) and need to replace the LF hub bearing as soon as possible. The groan gets worse above 75 MPH, but my wife can't hear it The next item to be replaced are the front struts, she really wants to bottom out on the highway over serious dips and rises on the road... And now that my front end it mechanically in good shape I notice that I can feel road bumps more than I should. Here is an ODD problem, the other day when I took my car in for an alignment, they could NOT align the rear as on the 96 the "SKIRT" line was TOO low and they could not attach their equipment to the wheel, as the skirt line was below the edge of the wheel, has anyone experienced that? Notice 'skirt' line in photo below. Is that a sign that I need rear springs? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I just ordered the Boston Suspension struts for all four wheels for $620 for all four wheels (Luxury Version). I probably will still do my rear springs due to the alignment shop having a hard time putting the equipment on the rear wheels as the body was low. I am a little upset as they said that on some 96's the electronics to eliminate the service ride control don't work, but it may 50% of the time... oh will, so I will have to hit RESET.. The good news is that when this is done and the service ride control is eliminating, my AM radio will work! Whenever I get a service ride control message (usually cold weather) my AM radio is perfect, when the service ride control is enabled the AM has static. Now I will be able to listen to Rush and Hannity... Yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Scotty, I had another 4-wheel alignment done after the front struts were replaced. There was no problem with the rear wheels in my '94 Deville Concours. I believe the "skirt hemline" is the same (the snap-in wheel skirt-covers were lost long ago on some forelorn gravel road). The shop I use is a few years old and has a newer "Hunter" alignment machine and of course they have numerous jigs for all the various makes and models. Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 TDK, I think you are right its possible that this alignment shop did not have the correct jig as you say to do my alignment right. They said they had never seen the 'problem' before. If you get a chance could you ask your alignment shop how they deal with this problem, is there a special attachment for this style Deville? Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I got a new tool today to make breaking the ball joints easier without damaging the grease seals, ahhh a new tool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Scotty, Be carefull putting together and trying out that new "Ball joint Seperator" tool... I noticed its in your lap and we all know what happens when tools get mixed up! You might seperate one too many "balls out of joint". The BRD is going back to have the steering wheel centered in a couple days, so I'll review the rear wheel alignment jigs with the guy then. Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I just ordered the Boston Suspension struts for all four wheels .......... I am a little upset as they said that on some 96's the electronics to eliminate the service ride control don't work, but it may 50% of the time... oh will, so I will have to hit RESET.. Scotty I've come up with this idea I'm going to try on mine. I removed the servo's from the original struts and shocks. They're not very big once they're out. My plan is to find some small plastic jars to put them in so they'll be weathertight, secure them under the car close to the connectors, and plug them back in. I think their presence in the loop will kill the message. Think it'll work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Scotty, Be carefull putting together and trying out that new "Ball joint Seperator" tool... I noticed its in your lap and we all know what happens when tools get mixed up! You might seperate one too many "balls out of joint". The BRD is going back to have the steering wheel centered in a couple days, so I'll review the rear wheel alignment jigs with the guy then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I just ordered the Boston Suspension struts for all four wheels .......... I am a little upset as they said that on some 96's the electronics to eliminate the service ride control don't work, but it may 50% of the time... oh will, so I will have to hit RESET.. Scotty I've come up with this idea I'm going to try on mine. I removed the servo's from the original struts and shocks. They're not very big once they're out. My plan is to find some small plastic jars to put them in so they'll be weathertight, secure them under the car close to the connectors, and plug them back in. I think their presence in the loop will kill the message. Think it'll work? You know that might just work! I will keep that in mind if I still get the message, good idea, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 TDK, I just searched Winnemucca, NV on my MS MapPoint, man you are located in an interesting part of Nevada. The photo of your car with the foliage made me look to see where you were located. I love the mid-west, not that I have ventured out that much, lots of people consider it 'brown' but that aspect does not come to mind for me. The clean air and open space impresses me. I have spent a lot of time in the Phoenix area and love it, I hope to die there some day...(not that the air is that clean but its a lot cleaner than NY) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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